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zooscat
Gold Member
 United Kingdom
882 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 05:56:40 AM
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I picked up a free magazine called Equi-Ads at our local tack shop. Interesting content about understanding horse behaviour, and ads for other equine "academic -type" publications. One such, entitled Tracking-up, lists its' current issue as containg an article by Lesley Skipper on "Shaving the Whiskers". On another page, there is another advertisement for a "new booklet" from Tracking-up, "Brain-training for Horses - How Horses Learn - and why we need to know". By Lesley Skipper. This booklet tells the reader "everything you need to know to really understand how horses brains work and how they think and learn". Further content includes Mrs Skipper's views on "Recognising Equine Feelings".
Am I alone in thinking that Mrs Skipper should not be given any opportunity to profit from her alleged knowledge of horses when she has been found guilty of shameless cruelty to horses, namely the lovely stallion Nivalis and the other Arabians in her care?
"Tracking -up" presents itself as a learned journal, with conributors such as Sylvia Loch and Susan McBane, well known for their concern and committment to understanding the most sensitive way to communicate with our horses.
I find it hard to understand why anyone with any empathy with horses can allow a person convicted of animal cruelty, however academically able, to be published as an authority on horse welfare.
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AnnaMaisy25
Gold Member
England
794 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 08:23:12 AM
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Completely agree, and IMO Equi-Ads shouldn't be advertising any of her work! Not exactly a good look for a generally useful free magazine.
We always pick one up from our feed merchant, and usually there is good topics in there, along with useful links to websites.
Perhaps there should be some way in contacting the magazine and letting them know that the idea of them advertising Mrs. Skipper's work is upsetting to the world of caring horse owners and riders??
Anyway, well picked up Zooscat!
Anna x |
 
Splash&Freya. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 08:24:54 AM
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You're right, that doesn't sound acceptable. What about a phone call to the editor initially?
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 09:28:10 AM
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Is it the April edition with a dun horse on the front? Just got it infront of me will have a look. Agree cant imagine why any magazine would want any article written by her.
I have just seen it surely they must be aware of what went on, I wonder if anyone else has seen it and thought the same. |
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Edited by - pinkvboots on 10 Apr 2013 09:31:12 AM |
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Eeyore
Gold Member
1181 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 10:29:07 AM
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I got my copy a couple of days ago and I totally agree with you.
I couldn't believe she was still peddling her articles given how her own horses suffered.
Is it too much to expect people to practise what they preach?
Sadly, by association, it also discredits the rest of the Tracking Up publication - in my eyes anyway. I certainly wouldn't buy a copy / subscribe. |
Heléna
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AnnaMaisy25
Gold Member
England
794 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 12:31:37 PM
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I'm looking into the contact information now, and will make a call on my lunch break.
I'm surprised they published with her in the magazine, as I said before, it's a good magazine!
I'm on the job 
Anna x |
Splash&Freya. |
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zooscat
Gold Member
United Kingdom
882 Posts |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 9:20:58 PM
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| C'mom folks...let sleeping dogs lie. Why this continuation of this witch hunt against Lesley Skipper? Firstly, check with the magazine why they published her work before you make accusations on this forum....please. Surely, this a fair comment? |
     
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
Edited by - RUTHIE on 10 Apr 2013 9:29:55 PM |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
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zooscat
Gold Member
United Kingdom
882 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 10:39:45 PM
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I do not think I am instigating a "witch hunt". I am drawing attention to what I believe is an incorrect editorial decision in the content of a well respected journal which seeks to encourage its' readers to think first of the welfare of the horses they own and ride, in order to promote a true partnership.
I shall contact the editors of the magazine to enquire why they felt it acceptable to publish work by Mrs Skipper, given her conviction for cruelty to horses. I suppose I posted in the spirit of "Am I alone in finding such publication abhorent?" I'm never quite sure how far off Planet Reality I live, so just wanted to check I wasn't totally in "deranged old biddy" mode. Also, didn't think of contacting the editorial team, but, as above, but will tomorrow.
I do not believe I am guilty of instigating a 'witch hunt', a phrase that implies unfair persecution of misunderstood, "different" person: I was raising a reasonable question about the ethical source of journal material.
Are the posters who believe my initial post is unfair, and that "sleeping dogs" should be left to enjoy their rest, of the opinion that the equine world should forgive and forget, given that Mrs Skipper has, presumably, fulfilled the community sentence given as punishment for her conviction? Or that the topic, overall, has been fully covered last year, and should not be revived in any form, as it is now of no interest?
Just interested to see how far off "normal" I am, these days, and which way the current moral compass swings.
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 11:11:19 PM
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I haven't read the article, so I do not know its content, but is there any advice that she gives that is cruel or dangerous? If not then I do not see why the magazine should not publish it. If the opinions that she expresses give cause for concern, then that is a different matter.
Lesley Skipper was found guilty of neglect of her horses, she has lost them and has had her reputation thoroughly exposed and derided in the media and all over the world wide web. How much more punishment do you require? Are you right to seek to prevent her from earning a living? |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 06:38:49 AM
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| zooscat, I did not say you' instigated a witch hunt', but is a continuation of one. It was not a personal attack. I really feel, as Callisto has said, Lesley Skipper has received her punishment. I would imagine the magazine was fully informed. Despite what has happened, Lesley is still very knowledgeable on the Arab horse. And Iam sure she isn't 'enjoying' her rest, just trying to pick up what's left of her life. Its not about forgiving or forgetting but having a sense of fair play. We still do not know what led Lesley and her husband to neglect their horses, and we probably never will. I take on board your points and will be interested to hear what the magazine has to say. |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 07:41:11 AM
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While I am a great believer in not forgetting what has happened in cases of neglect, cruelty, benefit fraud etc I do feel that htere must have been an underlying cause for someone as knowledgeable as Lesley Skipper who obviously loved here horses to have then neglected them. Depression can be a terrible thing and I am sure that is the reason for the change. It affects people differently and some do stop stop caring and functioning normally.
What happened was terrible but I am really don't think that it was done deliberately. The Skippers need to live and if Lesley has an income she is not living off the rest of us so I don't think we should deny her the right to do that and try to regain her life. Think of the others who have been convicted of fraudently claiming benefits they were not entitled to while they were fit to work and living lifestyles we can't afford! we have all seen their horses at shows and wished we could afford to live like that; maybe we could if we were not supporting them and the thousands of others cheating the system.
Barbara |
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 08:44:48 AM
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| She has to earn a living! I understand why lots of you feel that way and I'm not sure her advice is now that credible but I agree with Callisto and Barbara. Presumbably this is a terrible chapter in her life and she needs to move on. |
   
West Sussex |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 9:39:53 PM
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| Agree with Callisto and the others who posted after her. |
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zooscat
Gold Member
United Kingdom
882 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 07:15:07 AM
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Thank you for your interesting and balanced responses: my work brings me into constant contact with people who are cruel to vulnerable beings, and the horrible results of that cruelty. I have the capacity to make a difference and sometimes do. It is always sad to accept that I got there too late to prevent it in the first place.I find it difficult, sometimes, to accept that the perpetrators may still have productive and useful parts of their lives and are not wholly bad. As Barbara says, at least people who work are not living off our efforts!
So - I accept that Ms Skipper has every right to continue to earn her living. My angry response to seeing proof that she was, was, I think, rooted in remembering the pictures of her horses' suffering and it being a "last straw" on top of what I am currently working with.
I am sure some ALiners will think, "Well, if it's getting to you that much, change to another part of your trade and have an easier life". The answer is that I can and do make a real difference to the welfare of children, adults and animals. I wouldn't be able to do so much in another role. It's a great privilege, but sometimes it's emotionally very wearing, and I have an unbalanced snarl about something. The original post was just such a snarl. Thank you for reminding me of the correct balanced response to Mrs Skipper's continued contribution to equine knowledge. |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 08:38:21 AM
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What a fine example of reasonable and balanced discussion and debate. A forum to be proud of.
I think I would be surprised to read about horse care advice from someone who had caused neglect, not least because it would seem quite a strange thing from a Magazine PR point of view. I think the issue was never that she didn't know about good horse care; there had to be another reason, and in the original discussions on the subject, those who asked that question were treated worse than Lesley Skipper herself.
The fate of the stallion in this case seemed to cause much sadness; many on other forums commented how well/clean he looked, but we cannot tell the story from just pictures. However, since this incident I have noticed that it is very rare that a stallions fate is any different. It seems there is always a good case put forward for a stallion to be PTS immediately on site and I would venture to ask the question, has this anything to do with the fact that (at that time) many of the well known horse rescue centres openly stated that they DO NO take in stallions. |
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Miyaz
New Member
England
5 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 08:45:24 AM
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| Really?!!!!! Zooscat, you were spot on the first time. Someone convicted of neglecting horses has no place earning a living advising others how to care for horses. |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 09:21:58 AM
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Grass is coming up a treat now eh? Bet its raining in Manchester  |
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 09:39:02 AM
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'I am sure some ALiners will think, "Well, if it's getting to you that much, change to another part of your trade and have an easier life". The answer is that I can and do make a real difference to the welfare of children, adults and animals. I wouldn't be able to do so much in another role. It's a great privilege, but sometimes it's emotionally very wearing, and I have an unbalanced snarl about something. The original post was just such a snarl. Thank you for reminding me of the correct balanced response to Mrs Skipper's continued contribution to equine knowledge.'
You are so reasonable Zooscat, so glad you are out there doing the things that I wouldn't do! |
West Sussex |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 11:50:51 AM
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| I agree, Zooscat you are doing a job which must be unimaginably hard, hats off to you! |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 5:37:04 PM
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Zooscat you are a star and a very valued member of the 'Human Race' and Arabian Lines, as you have a vocation, and help so many people. I can see why you are upset by some of the responses on here, as understandably you have voiced your concerns about someone who says they are a 'horse expert' yet has been convicted of 'Gross neglect' and have had to have their poor very skinny and ill horses destroyed.
Lesley and her husband as far as I know have been banned from keeping horses. '
So yes it is dammmmm annoying for someone to peddle 'their' expert opinion when 'They have done the COMPLETE OPPOSITE' unfortunately this is not new I have met people over the years who state ;yes that's they way to do it' yet for lack of time or 'just can't be bothered'
will not do it themselves.
It is very unkind to say you are following a 'Witch Hunt' as this is nothing of the sort....... YOU are voicing a very real concern about someone 'who preaches but does not follow ......' I would Never Ever buy anything from this woman as I have seen in many pictures and Court documents the suffering of her 'POOR horses', there is no deniying this.
You have a very real and genuine concern and if this lady would like to keep writing I would suggest it is on a different subject (will have to look back at trial and see what benefits they were on)
Take heart 'this was not a witch hunt' it was a very genuine concern stated in logical language - we are all permitted to do this on this site ----- PLEASE do not twist someones genuine concerns.....
WE should never shut down FREE Opinion 'without prejudice'
Kind Regards
Alison |
Edited by - alison on 12 Apr 2013 5:54:01 PM |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 6:19:30 PM
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alison, it was not personal to zooscat. If you and anyone else think it is, then I appologise. I formed that opinion on the very first topic on Lesley Skipper. Some posters were, I feel, on a witch hunt. Thats IS my opinion. I did not set out to offend anyone. However, I think it was important to have contacted the magazine first. Maybe Lesley was contracted to write for them, and had been paid up front.
The majority of the posters on this thread are of the opinion that Lesley needs to pick up her life...somehow. On that note, I'm out of here. |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 6:29:47 PM
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No witch hunt, no slanging match, just a difference of opinion which we are all entitled to. That is the whole point of a thread like this; all our opinions are valid and we are entitled to express them politely.
It is great that we can disagree in a civilised manner! I am sure your job makes you more sensitive, Zooscat, and we can all appreciate and respect that.
Barbara |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 7:27:18 PM
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There is certainly a reluctance to rehome/care for stallions. That is why my partner and myself go without essentials to be able to keep our 2 boys - we were told quite bluntly that we would have to have them put down. To me, to kill two perfectly happy, healthy and well-balanced individuals is completely immoral and unacceptable. I could not live with myself if I had to do that. So we will without regret continue to go without heating, etc in order that our boys might live satisfactory lives as long as they can.
Keren |
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Lesley Skipper.
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