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mittens
Platinum Member
 United Kingdom
2109 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 11:10:40 AM
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Hi everyone,my 27 year old pure bred mare The Lady Helena (Zoey) has been struggling to get up from lying down some days,sometimes up to two hours but when up she is stiff but not lame or looking uncomfortable.She has flexibility in hock and fetlock but seems to slightly swing the back leg. I have explained to vet and she's saying its time we thought about the inevitable as it isn't fair if she cant get up. She is so vital and bright in her eyes and general ways and I can't bear the thought of ending her days when she isn't ready if she is otherwise comfortable and happy.This is heartbreaking.
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 11:28:26 AM
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| Is she stabled at night?It can be very stressing for a horse to try to get up and not being able to,as they feel helpless when laying down.They can get quite panicky trying to get up.Are you able to help her up every morning if she can't get up herself?In that case you might try to go on until she's otherwise ok,but you should always check on her especially when she's out in case she lays down. |
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mittens
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2109 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 11:30:59 AM
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| Hi,thanks for replying so quick,she's out 24/7 with shelters and rug.she manages to get up unaided after a while and just looks as though nothings happened. Have just rung vet to see if they can check her today.What if they say pts today? I'm not ready and neither is she |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 11:36:17 AM
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| Wait and see what the vet says - it might be a temporary problem that could be eased by physiotherapy or something. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 11:40:36 AM
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They would never say pts if you are not ready, only suggest, then you can make your own mind up. The awful consequence would be if she could not get up and struggled all through the night. Sorry, I have no experience with locking stifles but I'm sure you have her best interests at heart and will listen to all advice. She sounds a wonderful old girl.  |
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arabianrio
Gold Member
England
1300 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 11:42:11 AM
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| Hope things are not as bad as you think.Callisto is right....wait and see |
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mittens
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2109 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 11:42:41 AM
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| hmmm hopefully but she already seems to be hinting in a big way that I should consider pts as she's old. Why do they take that view? It's like she has no obvious purpose so it doesn't matter! Obviously I am concerned as winter is fast approaching and I can't bear the thought of her laying helpless in the cold and wet but is right to call time? This is so hard. |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 11:56:31 AM
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I am appalled at how easily vets propose pts.I guess without the emotional attachment they see things more objectively.You know your horse better and will know when she's miserable,only then you should consider pts IMO.
Maybe if you could stable her at night,at least she wouldn't be in the cold and wet had she any problem getting up?
Hope the vet can fix the stifle problem. |
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mittens
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2109 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 12:01:30 PM
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| yes was thinking of putting door on one of the shelters although landlady says no doors!! That would alleviate at least one stress,unless of course she gets cast. I think they all advocate pts as they can't be seen to condone leaving an animal suffering in case of any malpractice issues,but still they should see all cases as individuals |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 12:24:23 PM
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| Fingers crossed for you, its hard to know what to suggest, as Pasch says maybe you could try stabling her at night, put some decent banks round the outside to try and stop her getting cast, at least if she dose manage to get up and down easier in stable then its a problem solved. If owner will not let you put doors on what about some slip rails ?, good luck with vet . |
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ali bali
Gold Member
Scotland
641 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 12:54:43 PM
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The vet shouldn't recommend you put her down unless there is a compelling welfare reason to do so. They can, as Pasch rightly said, see things more objectively than owners and sometimes when deterioration has been slow it can be hard to tell exactly how much of a problem you have which is what happened to me.
I had the vet out to my 26 year old about a month ago, he had, in my opinion, started to move very poorly behind. As a big horse with lots of arthritic changes in every limb (he had a very hard life before he came to me in retirement) and age related muscle wastage over his quarters I was concerned about how fair it was to try to get him through the winter.
I adore the old boy and had myself in quite a state for a few days before the vet arrived. My heart sank when the senior partner arrived. Hes a very good vet but has the bedside manner of Darth Vader.... He had a good look at him move and told me whilst stiff he really wsn't as bad as my fears had made him! He stuck him on 2 bute a day and while there are no guarantees I know Im not being unfair trying to keep him going another year 
So you are definitely doing the right thing getting the vet out, but hold on to the hope that you might get a pleasant surprise. I have yet to meet a vet who takes recommending PTS lightly but many do like to raise the issue before hand so they can in part prepare the owner for the possibility and also judge the owners views before the deed is immediately at hand.
Good luck today I hope it goes well, Al |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 1:01:26 PM
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Thinking of you and sending you and your old girl big hugs |
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 1:30:54 PM
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| Mittens I have the same problem with my boy who's 27, he struggles to get up, though doesn't take as long as your mare, sometimes he can take up to an hour, also worst when the ground is wet as his front legs can't get a grip and slide while his back legs are not strong enough to push, he is on 1 bute a day, 2 if needed, and very slow, but all the time he is seems happy and is eating he will stay with me, I think you will know when the time is right, but like you I do worry that he will go down one day and not get up, |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 2:47:28 PM
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My 22 year old mare had a locking stifle last year--she still acts like a loony in the field and I think she slipped in mud while doing a hand brake turn. Vet put her on danilon for a while and Corta flex supplement and she made a full recovery.
I had an old mare years ago who had trouble getting up for the last few years of her life. I always worried about her going down and not being able to get up, but it never happened. She was otherwise full of life and spirit and had a great quality of life-- a bit of anxiety on my part was a small price to pay for the extra years she had, and I am very glad I did not pts as soon as she first started having a bit of difficulty. In the end it was a bad colic that she was pts for, in her 40th year, so no connection. |
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Edited by - Zan on 23 Nov 2011 2:48:31 PM |
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mittens
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2109 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 3:18:33 PM
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| hi all,my vet who knows Zoey very well and who Zoey trusts can't come til friday,hope I'm doing right in waiting for one that won't stress her out. She just cantered across to me but now BOTH legs seem to be really awkward. My horsey friend just came to see her and (quite a blunt woman and matter of fact)said her back legs have gone and looks like stifle and there's nothing that can be done. Feel really miserable now. Zoey has a bilateral asymetric pelvis anyway which can't help. She's on danilon twice a day,cortaflex,cider vinegar and instant linseed. Her appetite is good and she was asking for treats. Just hear of horses who aren't ready to go and there being a struggle at the end. I am so confused and I still haven't got over losing my beloved Whinney last year |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 3:31:36 PM
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I would urge you to wait until friday because you seem to trust the vet who is coming then as well as Zoey. It is important that you are able to discuss the situation with someone who understands you and your horse. For some people this would be the excuse they were waiting for to pts. That bis obviosly not the case with you, but the other vet might be advising from her own frame of reference, not looking at the whole picture.
Locking stifle could be a luxating patella. If that is the case then it will be fine when it slips back into place and unable to bear weight when it slips out. Sometimes you can hear it click back and bring immediate relief.It could be possible to operate and solve the problem but it might not be best to put her through an op. Similarly it might improve spontaneously though remain vulnerable to slipping.
I am sure your friday vet will point you in the right direction. |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 9:17:16 PM
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Same as Quarabian,wait for the friday vet.
We all wait to know what he will say,good luck! |
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guisburn
Gold Member
United Kingdom
562 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 6:59:38 PM
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| Try supplementing her diet with cortaflex - it contains the same supplements glucosamine that they recommend to humans with arthritis, we are giving to our stallion who badly damaged his suspensory ligaments and stifles when he slipped on ice in January this year, sadly he will never be ridden again but aged 11 who would want to put him down, it has helped him. |
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ali bali
Gold Member
Scotland
641 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 9:17:44 PM
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How did it go today? Hope it was good news  |
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Offira
Platinum Member
England
1583 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2011 : 11:24:15 AM
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It is an agonising decision, you don't want to end their life prematurely but you don't want to leave it too late and find them distressed.
I have had extremely good results with codlivine joint supplement oil. Within 3 days there was a noticeable improvement.
Also an interesting side effect of feeding Thunderbrook base supplement is an overall improvement in mobility in my 36 year old.
As he got older his muscles got weaker and then less able to support his posture, added to this a bit of general stiffness and his mobility was quite impaired.
Vet said at his age he would be unable to put on muscle, well... this is where thunderbrook has really helped,, overall his muscle tone has improved, particularly in the hindquarters.
Not sure if your mare is still in work but mine benefits from long reining 3 times a week. When my stallion tore his stifle ligament he had to do lots of walking up hills in hand (not steep ones thankfully) to build up and strengthen this area.
Best of luck with your mare, 27 is a very good age. I felt quite cheated when my stallion died age 29 - it didn't seem old enough somehow but it was terrific really.
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mittens
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2109 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2011 : 2:10:16 PM
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Hi all! Update on Zoey after visit from vet:She was not too concerned with the strange swinging movement of the leg,describing it as almost being stringhalt in reverse.A thought occurred to me the day prior to the visit;last year Zoey had really pulled something in her quarters whist getting up resulting in the muscle on one side of her tail slightly below the dock being double the size of the other.The vet had been out the same day this happened and prescribed danilon to see how the swelling went down.It did but only after eight weeks.There is still some puffiness there which due to calcification could be contributing to the mobility problems.Overall though it's a case of preparing ourselves for the worse as she is in discomfort .Also the locking mechanism of the hind legs is weakening so the reason she is wanting to lie down is purely because her legs are getting tired. We are to continue with the danilon to keep her comfortable.The vet would like to see her put on a little weight although not too much due to extra strain on the joints.I asked if I should continue with the cortaflex but she said the money would be better spent on danilon (finances not great).I will carry on with it though as it can't hurt.
I wondered if any of you have used corn oil as a suppliment?
Nothing more I can add at this juncture;feeling slightly better as she didn't come with her doom face on but still sad to see Zoey being fine but with kaputt legs.Don't know what else I can do |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2011 : 2:45:08 PM
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It is very difficult to make the right judgement in these situations, I was put in the same position with my beloved 14 year old Lab. Due to arthritis his joints deteriorated and he lost mobility, and found it increasingly difficult to get up and had to be lifted into the car. Despite this he was perfectly cheerful, which made it hard to make the decision. To be honest we probably kept him going longer than we should have done, but when he started to show signs of distress when he got trapped in a position against the wall etc. I realised that it was selfish to continue and it was time to let him go, which we did up at the stable yard after a final (slow) walk in his beloved woods. It was heartbreaking to do, but afterwards I knew it was the kindest thing I could do for him. We kept him on Nupaflex (for dogs - there is a horse one) and an anti-inflammatory painkiller for his final 18 months, plus his magnetic collar, the combination of which definitely helped. I think you will know when the time is right, and hugs to you at this difficult time. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2011 : 7:57:36 PM
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At my previous yard they have a 40 years old pony,he's free to wander around and stabled at night.He has wobbly hind legs and will only walk and rarely do a small awkward trot if frightened.He looks really old but he eats well and is fine although a bit thin.Last summer he started to have problems getting up.They would find him in the field under the scorching sun,unable to get up or even get horseflies off himself,and sweaty because of heat and exhaustion.Twice they had to use a tractor to get him up.
I am really against pts unless absolutely necessary,but then I thought that was the case.The yard owner didn't.
I went to visit yesterday and the oldie was there,following me like a shadow for treats,looking great and perky.He still struggles to get up sometimes but they are able to help him up easily,and being stabled at night helps.
What I mean is that you will have to judge when your horse is no more happy,it could be soon but then maybe you will be able to enjoy her company for years.So take it day by day and enjoy the time you spend together! |
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garnet
Platinum Member
2382 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2011 : 6:03:51 PM
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I didn't have quite the same question with Garnet as her problem was with her big arthritic knees. She got stuck down for the first time several years before she was finally PTS. I was still driving home from the yard when I got the call; the vet was also sent for and I just prayed I would get back to the yard before she died. As I walked down the field to her she lifted up her head and called to me, bless her. Vet couldn't find anything wrong (eg heart, stroke) so together with the support crew holding torches we got her to her feet. She immediately set off at a brisk pace I could hardly keep up with and spent the night in the indoor school with her two boyfriends as she didn't 'do' stables. This happened several more times over the years, but without the vet, and she was fine as soon as she was up.
One morning I got a call to say she was down, had been helped up and had gone down again. My dental appointment was cancelled, the vet summoned, and she was PTS in her field amongst her friends, human and equine.
What I am trying to say is that when the time comes you will know - something will be different and will tell you that it is time. Try to enjoy the good days you have left without letting the thought of what is to come spoil your remaining time together. I understand what you are going through and can only sympathise with you. |
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My 27 year old mare.locked stifle?? please help
