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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 10:05:04 AM
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Apologises if this topic has been covered and I bore anyone but I was just reading the H&H. It had a bit about what judges like to see and it said that message of fat is no longer acceptable in the ring is very slowly getting through. Unfortunately judges are still a bit reluctant to place them down the line.
What are your thoughts on it?
Do you believe show horses are too fat? Whats it like in the arab circle?
Is the message fat is no longer acceptable getting through?
If you were judging, would you place them down the line on this basis?
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 1:06:19 PM
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| Obesity is a welfare issue and ought to be penalised. Put a photo of a ribby horse up on a forum and a barrage of finger pointing will follow but very few will criticise an overweight horse. Sadly, I think we shall continue to see these obese horses rewarded in the showring for some time to come because change in such a 'traditional' domain will only happen slowly. Fat can cover a multitude of conformation faults, as we all know. Many in the wider showing world, and I include non-Arab showing in this, enjoy success through 'smoke and mirrors'. Before you all leap on this comment, I think obesity is less common in pure bred Arabian showing than in some other breeds but ought to be penalised in every breed. |
http://www.performancearabians.com
http://performancearabians.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/PerformanceArabians
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 2:20:13 PM
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I definately think fat horses should be put down the line 
I do think the message is getting through, a friend of mine is an ID judge and she refused to ride 3 in one class last year as they were so fat they were out of breath just going round together!
Needless to say the owners complained - and the vet on the showground backed up the judge! 
I dont think its as bad in arab classes as it is on M+M , The WORSE ones are definately the cobs and trad coloureds, awful awful awful 
As has been said, I honestly think overweight is MORE of an issue then underweight!
And sadly most people wouldnt know a FIT well conditioned horse ( as in muscled not FAT!) if it fell on them!
Every year I have to do Lami watch as the liveries insist on feeding the horses to bursting through the winter instead of doing as nature intended and making sure they come out of winter a bit on the lighter side so spring can be welcomed instead of met with dread 
As you may tell... fat horses= pet hate!
susie |
   
www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
Edited by - phoenixbruka on 01 Mar 2011 3:05:23 PM |
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alypie
Bronze Member
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 2:41:25 PM
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| i took my mare to a show last year, and she was slightly on the porky side, (she hadnt quite reached her weight loss goal at the time), and we were put down the line for it, which i totaly agreed with. its definately getting better our there |
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sub
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1919 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 5:48:46 PM
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When I did my probationary, there was a very overweight purebred in the class.
He was the best mover and had the best conformation, but we placed him down the line because of his weight.
It was a shame because he was the best horse in the class by far!
I totally agree with placing overweight horses down the line.
If you look at heavyweight hunters today as opposed to in the 70's and 80's they are twice the size!
I worked for Guy Landau for a while and his top heavyweight hunter (Red Hand) won pretty much everything. In 1997 and 1998 he was Hunter of the Year at HOYS. He retired in 1998 and was gifted to a Major in the Household Cavalry.
In 1999 he was in the royal parade and I wouldn't have recognised him if I hadn't known he was there - he was a much leaner horse!! |
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Sabine K
Bronze Member
130 Posts |
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simbba
Silver Member
299 Posts |
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Suelin
Platinum Member
England
2514 Posts |
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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 6:59:29 PM
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How awful that poor chestnut mare!
At the other end of the scale I took my fit not fat arab mare in to a pure bred class last year and was hammered by the judge for her apparently being too thin. This was a mare who was covering about 60 miles per week and the winner was to put it politely a hippo. Seems you can't win. I was then told that showing is for show horses and horses like mine had no place in the show ring!
Needless to say we are not showing this year! I would rather have a fit and happy horse than an obese unfit and unhappy animal. |
   
Paidir dóibhsean le fiántas ina gcroíthe acu, atá coinnithe i gcaighin |
Edited by - Lindsay on 01 Mar 2011 7:01:19 PM |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 7:00:27 PM
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| Dear me it looks like my friends prize bull, how can they think that its good to be that size it dose not look normal.I am afraid the Welsh pony judges still favour the fat ponies, i was up at my pals stud today and they are way too fat for me but until the judges start putting the fatties down the line it will continue, i dont show my welsh anymore as i am not prepared to have her that fat. On the good side at least the Arabs seem to keep them a better weight for showing. |
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 7:07:18 PM
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Ooft...those horses resemble prize bulls!!
We had a highland pony, mostly used for hacking for my mum but I did a bit of showing with her. My mum was a nightmare..Id weigh her hay, shed slip in an extra section. Id put her in teh starvy paddock, shed let her through into the big fertilised bit.. Of course she ended up HUGE. I went to a show and was dumped to last cos of it...mortified I was, but at least it was a wake up call for my mum. Her excuse 'Ive been on a diet for over 30 years, I know what its like to feel hungry'. Amazingly she never had lami, but it was triggered with the stress when we sold her on. It was so bad she was pts within 9 months. Perfect example of killing with kindness!
Now, my mum is not allowed near my horses!!
Friends of mine breed Welshes and they are quite bad for 'condition'. The stallion ended up with lami last year in all 4 feet, but yet they still say they need to their condition for the showing and only ridden for 15 mins 3x a week. So the message obv isnt getting through to them. |
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Arabianknights
Bronze Member
England
156 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 7:51:29 PM
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Oh my goodness! They are HUGE! They look like obese women!
Please tell me they have been photoshopped!? |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 8:32:25 PM
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Those pictures just made me sooo sad, how the hell can people be allowed to be so cruel to their horses, they obviously can't do "normal" things, it's just horrible  |
George xxx
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 8:45:03 PM
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re the American pictures of halter horses--this has been going on in the states for a long time, and they aren't just obese, they have dreadful conformation too---but they win!! and become champions!! of halter classes. This is what happens when there is a gulf between show halter horses, and ridden performance horses of the same breed--it gets wider and wider till monstrosities like this are bred.Poor, poor horses.
We should all take note--especially those who favour some of the American fashions for in-hand (halter) showing of Arabs, and make sure following those fashions isn't the start of a slippery slope.
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xsara
Gold Member
822 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 9:47:50 PM
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| I don't like obese horses xsara and kiara a little bit on the heavy side but they are no way obese. xsara is fit and gets plenty of work with a strict diet of mainly hay and looks well for it. I think horses look a lot better when they are fitter and have muscle instead of flab esp as I have seen it with the race horses how much better they are when they tigthen up a bit but not too lean with a good covering but not fat. I dont like the quarter horse, they remind me of the belgian blue cows, which are highly prized for they muscle for meat. |
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SarahA
Silver Member
476 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2011 : 9:57:34 PM
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Hi, I completely agree with horses been overweight been placed down the line, and specific breeds are definitely over topped in the ring, however I don't believe some people and judges know how to condition score a horse, I have conditioned scored my horse and she is classed as "good" however because she is well sprung through her ribs and short coupled, everyone assumes she is overweight this is despite the fact that you can feel her ribs easily but they aren't visible, and I wld agree she does look round, but that is how she is put together, and I wld be very annoyed if she was put down the line in place of a slab sided horse that was actually carrying more fat but just didn't look that way.
Sorry for the rant but I have spent 15 years with people giving me helpful advice on how to cut her feed down to reduce her weight.
So I guess what I am trying to say in between my rants is that moving a horse down a line for it's condition is one thing as long as it's breed and conformation is taken into account, after all some breeds naturally carry more bulk and have larger necks (haflinger, section d) and these horses should not be trying to fit into a stereotype of a tb or hack.
Sorry again for the rant.
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 12:35:17 AM
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| Good god, I only looked at the first one, barely looks like a horse. Disgusting. And the comment about body mass, what are these people on? |
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Esther
Gold Member
United Kingdom
866 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 05:33:49 AM
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I think the other thing to watch for is comments made by judges. We took one of Wolf's yearling mates to a big county show last year, in the sports horse class. FWIW I actually agreed with the judge's line up - our filly was placed (just) but she hadn't shown herself off to her best advantage due to the absolute peeing down rain and the fact they'd all stood in the ring for 20 minutes with the judge whose steward hadn't turned up, so when the time came for her to trot out she had well and truly taken her bat and ball home. Understandably.
What got me was the comment from the judge. The only thing he said was 'Needs more condition, she looks too immature'. She was a yearling FFS. A perfectly healthy, well covered, yearling. There were all sorts of perfectly valid reasons why the line up was as it was, and yet he picked that as the most important point to get across? It may be that the judge didn't mean it like that but that was certainly how it came across.
Luckily my friend isn't the sort to then bring her horse home and start packing it full of food, but if it were someone who was maybe a bit more bothered about placings, those comments could have had just that effect.
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paranoid horsemother
 
Photo on far right thanks to West End Photography
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LadyLuck1
Gold Member
England
730 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 8:25:35 PM
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It makes me really cross, BF has a sec c well he pays the bills but its his mum that has him a well known local judge schools this pony and last year spent all her time telling her that he wouldnt place unless he got bigger and bigger, he ended up with a neck like a lami pony and looked awful. BF had to step in and say enough cut back all feed and neck to go. It just shows that people who you think wouldnt be sucked in do. Same judge told me that Kirstie needs to gain some weight( we are trying to lose a bit) well she got told nicely where to go.
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Fat horses in the ring
