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Vickan
New Member
25 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 7:13:34 PM
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Can anyone help me with information about the stallion Ard Chocolate? He was the father of the welsh foundation stock mare Brockwell Butterfly foaled in 1955. I guess Ard Choclate was a non registered riding pony.
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 7:48:11 PM
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He might be irish - there are a number of irish horses with the Ard prefix, I have found 4 Connemara stallions with the Ard prefix, Ard Grandpa is an Irish Draught There is a stud currently using the Prefix Ard in Ireland called the Ard Cherrymount Stud, they breed eventers, jumping horses and connemaras, perhaps they could help? They have a website you could contact them through. Apparently they have been breeding for 50 years, so sounds like he could well come from there originally.
ETA
This is Ard Chocolate's link on allbreeds, its incomplete, but he is described as a British Riding Pony and His father was TB, Dam part bred Arab - don't know what the non arab part was though
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ard+chocolate
ETA
There is no breeding for Georgeous (Ard Chocolate's Granddam) but there is an entry for her where it states she was a Connemara/hunter mare so that would account for the non arab part if it correct. Definitely sounds like he came from the stud mentioned above... |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 10 Jan 2011 8:07:38 PM |
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 9:46:51 PM
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I found a reference to Ardencaple, spelled Arden Caple, as an extremely influential TB sire of riding ponies.
ETA there's an old thread on here (2003) that says Ardencaple was owned by Glenda Spooner. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 10 Jan 2011 9:59:38 PM |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 12:35:49 AM
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| If you think about it, Tara is a very Irish name. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 12:36:55 PM
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Yes, I already thought about that and I have to go and see the lady that owned her, its says on the old Stud Add, that all the mares were Champions, so it looks as if Tara may have some records of winnings too. I know she will also have photo's of this mare and her children, I remember a few of them..will have to put on my thinking cap.
I was a bit thrown by the Irish link and the Owner of the Arab horse RISSAAL, I'm hoping to find reference to this horses owner in some of the old books, I did find another 'Chocolate pony' in the Welsh Stud books too.
On the Arden front, I think I remember the stud was in Warwickshire, hense the place ARDEN, although Gelenda Spooner did not breed ARDENCAPLE, and so they may have just used the name. I remeber some of the ponies they were showing, as I was sohowing in the 14.2h class around the same time. So I do believe that the Stud was at some point located in Warwickshire. I met Glenda Spooner a few times, a really important person in the welfare of horses, she set up the Glenda Spooner Trust and did such a lot for horses. I think the ILPH took over the running when she got older.
Vickan, has a lot of the NPS Stud books I wonder if she has the ones around this time....
and many of the riding ponies that were shown then, would have been BSPS,(British Show Pony Society) registered yearly, well mine was.
Vickan, can you tell us your interest in the Welsh part of this line...I have a good contact that might be able to help you..and I have some of the stud books too.
For some reason your link does not show the full extent of Mrs Binnie's Brockwell Briar pedigree. Leaving you the correct link, which you'll find very interesting I'm sure. have you also seen the CASMARAN Stud Info: and Criban Victor.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/criban+briar
Ardencaple (GSB) sired lots of riding types, a real favourit in his day.(look at the off springs listed on allbreeds).I'm sure we should be able to turn up a pic of him..given a bit of time...
Found just another couple of 'ARD' ponies:
ARD MERRY BOY-1967,s.ZULKAN.d.MIRABELLE OF ARD.
ARD EASTER PARADE-1967,s.ZULKAN.d.EASTER BLONDIE. Both bred by Mrs M. Dean.
Also found this one bred by Mrs Glends Spooner: ARDEN BRONZE BOY-1967,s.CREDEN VALHALLA.d.ARDEN BRONZE.
There are a few more in the PBAR.
Cheers Sue |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 15 Jan 2011 03:01:33 AM |
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 1:29:15 PM
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| Ardencaple stod at Gerald Barnes Stud Farm, Bentworth, Hants during the 1952 season. He is advertised as a Thoughbred Pony. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 2:16:06 PM
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Copied from the Ard Cherrymount website...
Margo and Bruce Dean set up Ardmulchan Stud over 40 years ago. In '96 it was decided to move from Navan to Kells, a distance of about 20Km, and Cherrymount became the new home. Bruce is the manager of the woodland and farm while Margo produces and breeds Connemara Ponies within the Stud, along with her involvement with all the competition horses.
Heather founded the Sport Horse section of the Stud in 1980 as it was mostly Connemaras before that. Looks like this was written in 2004.
So it looks like this is the stud that Ard Chocolate came from, if the 2 Ard prefix ponies found by Rozyrider are anything to go by. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 11 Jan 2011 2:21:45 PM |
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Rozy Rider
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Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 7:30:55 PM
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Getting Close(r):Part Bred Arab Register:- ARD SALLY STAR: 1967 Grey Mare: s.ZULKAN,d.ARD SALLY SLIPPER: Mrs.N.Dean ( I think there was a M. Dean also).So there you are..
ZULKAN seems to have been used several time in the ARD ponies I've found in the Part Bred Arab Registers, so far, So I'd take a bet that ZULKAN - AHSB.Vol.X..was one of their stallions.( I dont have Vol. X.).
A tour around the ARD stud was lovely, no mention of the Arab or any Chocolate, Vickan I think you'll have to email them now....Good Luck.
BIA..Please can you check the above Pure bred stallion out and tell us what progeny is listed in the DataS..please.
Sue
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 11 Jan 2011 9:04:31 PM |
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 8:09:08 PM
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I've just been looking in an old Equestrian Who's Who from 1959.
Re; Glenda Spooner "went to live in Sussex and started dealing in children's ponies, Chocolate Box, Silver Belle, Debutante Royal Crusader, Vanity Fair, Windsor Lass and the small hunter Invercauld etc., passing through her hands. Now owns very successful pony stallion Ardencaple, and has bred innumerable winners"
I've also found a headshot of Ardencaple who was standing with Mr G. A. Hillman, Bucks. in 1956.
Could Chocolate Box be the same chestnut mare born 1940/1941, who came second with Jennifer Skelton at the Intenational Horse Show in 1947 in the 12.2hh-13.2hh class? I got a nice picture of them in a book as they won lots of shows in 1948, Royal Windsor, Royal Horse Show.
"This 13.2 hand liver chestnut pony mare is the property of Miss Jennifer Skelton, and is a very nice type of pony with good bone, but she does not strip well. Her manners in the ring are perfect and she must be a good ride, and she is a straight mover with, I should imagine, the best of mouths. This pony has also been a very consistent winner in the 13.2 classes" |
Edited by - Melynda on 11 Jan 2011 8:53:38 PM |
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Callisto
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6905 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 9:34:13 PM
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I have vol 10, Zulkan, 1964, grey by Samson out of Ziree of Wada, breeder Mrs S A Nicholson, Balraith, Burry, Kells, Co. Meath, Eire. So very local to the Ardmeath Stud
Have been through vols XI to XVII and can't find any purebred progeny.
In vol X the following were also registered by Mrs Nicholson:-
Achmed, 1964 colt grey, by Naseel out of Princess Muna
Wawi 1964 colt, grey or bay by Zeus II out of Wadiha, exported to Denmark 1966
Zero 1963 colt , grey by Warren Point out of Ziree el Wada
Given Melynda's info, it's possible the stud purchased Chocolate Box in foal to Ardencaple?
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 11 Jan 2011 11:40:58 PM |
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 12:12:59 AM
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I'm pretty sure Chocolate Box was a dark liver chestnut, would love to see the pic of her, any chance, although I'm not sure about the year of birth.
Found this snippet:
'the riding superstar Jennifer Skelton on her show ponies, which had alluring names such as Chocolate Box and Picture Play.
Her grandmother, Betty Skelton, and her mother Jennifer, would surely be proud.
Mrs Glenda Spooner was the breeder of Georgina 1951 and her dam was ARD LUI, & at that time Mrs Spooner lived in Ascot, Berks.
Glad Zulkan has been found.
0Cheers Sue. |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 15 Jan 2011 03:00:45 AM |
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Vickan
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25 Posts |
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 9:15:51 PM
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Vickan, if you do contact the Ard Stud please let us know what you find out - it's fascinating to trace back these old pony lines  |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Rozy Rider
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Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 01:03:37 AM
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Thank You Melynda, for showing us Chocolate Box, I've been after her for ages, she is in my old ponies breeding who was also a very dark chocolate colour. Lovely ponies lovey times.
Cheers Sue |
Sue
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 12:18:10 PM
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Ardencaple (GSB) sired lots of riding types, a real favourit in his day.(look at the off springs listed on allbreeds).I'm sure we should be able to turn up a pic of him..given a bit of time...
Ardencaple
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Edited by - Melynda on 13 Jan 2011 12:19:16 PM |
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Rozy Rider
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Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 2:07:56 PM
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Thanks you Melynda for the pics...a real treat.
Leaving you a pic of Mrs Nicholson with some of her Naseel mares.
Not directly linked but might be of interest.
Vickan..Did you manage to sort out your links of interet with Brockwell Butterfly... Can you keep us posted.
Dr Wynn Davies has a really good book on the Welsh ponies, and if you leave the details your after and the names of the welsh ponies I'll take a look in his book and see if there is anything relating to them.. OK
Also, If you contact ARD stud, they may have more info of the above mare and her son Ard Chocolate, be nice to find out if they owned Chocolate Box and where they had her from and if she was sold to them by Gelenda Spooner...who was in Ascot as Mylinda has confirmed etc.etc. Tara was by ERINS PRIDE ( Thoroughbred and he was also stationed in Ascot.
Keep it coming folks...
Thanks a lot.
Sue
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 14 Jan 2011 11:56:58 AM |
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hollyland
New Member
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Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 2:06:15 PM
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This may be information you already have by now. Found this while looking for something else.
Perrywinkle foaled 1951. Vol 26 NPS. Chestnut mare with flaxen mane and tail. Sire: Ardencaple, Dam Chocolate Box by Rissal.
bred and owned by Miss JS Skelton.
Pedigree of owner /breeder interesting as Mrs E Skelton , side saddle authority(legendary), is grandmother to judges Mrs Bryer and Mrs Simms of Harroway.
i |
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Nimlat
Silver Member
England
461 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 11:19:47 PM
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Ardencaple stood at Mrs Alexander's Forge Farm Stud in the 1960's
and I believe he ended his life at Mr Bob Black's yard in Wiltshire.
I'm looking for more info on him but it is surprising how deep stuff is put away over time!!
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 02:14:19 AM
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Keep looking Nimlat, and can you tell us anything about Tara VI, I thought she might have belonged to Lady Riese?.
and can you also remind me about June & Honeysuckle, found a lovely pic of Honeysuckle.. will post..
Thanks Holyland, will add periwinkle.
I've found a pic of Pretty Polly (Naseel/Gypsy Gold)also bred in Ireland,this time by Mrs S A Nicholson at Kells, Co.Meath, Pretty Polly is so much like Chocolate Box, its unbelieable. Will post pics. Pretty Polly was Champion ridden pony at Dublin Show 1949 and who later went to the Suffolk Punch breeder Albert Deptford and was Pony of the Year.
 Pretty Polly (Naseel/Gypsey Gold).
 Four ponies by Naseel..L to R...EUREKA.GLIDE ON. MY PRETTY MAID. & PRETTY POLLY.
Cheers Sue
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 15 Jan 2011 11:54:37 PM |
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Melynda
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 12:56:14 PM
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Hi Melynda, How about posting those we have'nt seen.I would love to see them anf the link wont work for me...
I've just had a bit more news about more part breds bred in Ireland...got to sort it.
and
Melynda, I;m searching for a Stallion Half Bred horse/Pony that belonged to Sir John Barker in 1904/5/6/7 ish.He was in Bishops Storford, Herts. Covered SPREE in 1905.
Vickan, You've got all of use going now, what happened about your original interest in Brockwell Butterfly..did you manage to sort it out....and where Ard Chocolate was at stud and where his stock are registered....yet
Cheers Sue
PS. Nimlat has turned these pics up from her records.
 Ardencaple aged 13yrs.(1960) Photo from Forge Farm Archives.
and
 The grey
Arab is Rissal (b 1923) a Kehilan Rodan. Sire Skowronek, Dam Rissla.
Thank You Nimlat, Great Pics...
leaving you Honeysuckle:
 Honeysuckle (Basa/June)
Cheers Sue( will email you).
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 10 Feb 2011 12:29:01 AM |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2011 : 3:45:51 PM
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Found this while reading 'The Arabian Horse in Great Britain' by R S Summerhays (1967):-
"Little did any of us realise, for instance, that largely because of the influence of one horse, Mrs S A Nicholson's famouse grey stallion Naseel, the pony world would become hugely interested in the Arab as a sire for part-bred show ponies, and would rival the thoroughbred for this purpose. Naseel's progeny have received very many awards at the major shows in England and at lesser shows even more..."
"...(in 1956)For some years past a number of Arab-bred ponies had been scoring repeated successes at the more important of our shows. In the past this field had been dominated by the pony produced by the crossing of a small TB with one or other of our Native breeds. Prominent among these were the lovely Pretty Polly, My Pretty Maid and a number of others, all claiming the same sire, Mrs S A Nicholson's grey Arab Naseel, which for many years had stood at her stud in Ireland. Incidentally, apart from these ponies the remarkable Naseel had sired champion, or first prize winning, hunters and cobs which had won at Dublin and other shows in Ireland and elsewhere. From 1946 to 1959 Naseel sired the Champion pony at the Spring and Summer shows at Dublin seventeen times, and gained thirteen Reserve Championships. This must certainly be a record. It was Sir Henry's (Abel Smith, AHS President)idea to parade Naseel with many of his son's and daughters to let the world see what an Arab could produce, and so we had a parade in the ring of a large number of ponies led by their sire Naseel..." |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Rozy Rider
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Posted - 30 Oct 2011 : 11:24:37 PM
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My old Riding Pony mare had Chocolate Box in her breeding and I've always had an interest in this line. (she was a very dark liver chestnut).
I met Tara when she was owned by the Twylands Stud, I think she came from Lady Reise.
Many of the riding (show) pony breeders aquired ponies for their 'Three Way Cross' that had Naseel in their line. 1967 was a good year for riding ponies.
Cheers Rozy |
Sue
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Rozy Rider
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Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 12:18:50 AM
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I've got a pic of J skelton at white City//when I can find it.
Rozy. |
Sue
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Ard Chocolate - info wanted
