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angelarab
Platinum Member
 Wales
2876 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 12:28:49 PM
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Can anyone post pics of the various type of Arabs and explain what makes them different,I just see an Arabian horse and go all mushy 
Baz is Spanish/egyptian what does that mean i hear Spanish Arabs are really chilled out and thicker build then egyptian??
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 "Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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pro1
Bronze Member
Wales
220 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2010 : 11:53:15 PM
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| we are all obviously in the same boat. a beautiful arab is a beautiful arab!!! |
   
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 08:40:21 AM
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when I did this Angel, it turned into critic fest for some , if you put pictures of other peoples horses up and someone pulls them apart , you could possibly and unwittingly put the site into disrepute.  so sad 
As to your question , why are Spanish generally considered chilled and thicker built than Egyptians, it is like people who breed dogs for different traits , so the Spanish favoured a thicker set Arab then the Egyptians , hence its what one country desires that will be bred on.. just as individual breeders do. personally I love the Spanish Arabs  |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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angelarab
Platinum Member
Wales
2876 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 10:46:21 AM
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| Thanks Lyndilou, so it sounds like i have picked up some understanding of type, can anyone tell me about Polish Russian etc do they excel better at some things the others, |
"Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 11:39:25 AM
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Again Angel, although I dont profess to be an expert , the Russian and Polish breeders again went for their ideals, being based more on Movement and kehilan type bodies.
sorry edited to correct spelling  |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
Edited by - LYNDILOU on 21 Nov 2010 1:29:49 PM |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 3:03:18 PM
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But kehilan type in Russia and Poland means something totally different from what is considered kehilan type in America! So it isn't as straightforward as that.
Also, although *some* Spanish lines are rounded and well-built, others are more angular. In fact, PRE afficianados desribe Arabs as 'angular'!
Keren |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 4:33:29 PM
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| Well as I said Keren , I dont profess to be an expert!!! but stand a Saglawi next to kehilan and the two look like different types, the kehilan looking MORE LIKE a Russian type . |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 4:59:59 PM
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So, what type does a seglawi look like??? Ali is Approx. 56% Russian-/25% Egyptian-/19% English-Polish cross. Approx 35% Crabbet. (Bia worked out for me!)
His tail female is seglawi...
What strain/type does he look like???
Can you tell from my sig pic's.
Find all this stuff soooo interesting! |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 5:17:39 PM
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But in America (as per Raswan), a keheilan is considered to be small and rounded, whereas a typical Russian in tall and evenly-proportioned  Which shows the difficulty of trying to use strains to describe type.
From personal observation, I would describe the typical Polish Arab as one with a well-rounded body, dry, fine legs and a muzzle which is squared-off in profile, whereas a typical Crabbet has a well-rounded body, more substantial legs and a rounded muzzle profile.
Keren |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 5:24:07 PM
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| Angelarab i like you have been wondering the difference between types, i have been looking at quite a few recently with view to a new ridden horse, and yes i did post on Lyndilous post but only to say that for me the horse did not have a lot of saddle area although i did say it could of been the angle of the photo i thought that the post was asking what we liked about the horse, i would never criticise somebodies horse as each to there own and what a sad world it would be if we all liked the same.I shall watch this post to see if i can get some insight into the different types. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 5:40:09 PM
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of course each to his own and his own interpretation of what he see's before him[:D
quoting from a well known persons book.
quote: the word type best describes the qualities of the standard of the breed in question. An Arabian is or is not typey according to how nearly it approaches the perfection set from within the Standard description; unquote.
you can always look up the definitions of breed type, maybe wikipedia? |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 6:13:03 PM
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IMO, *these days* there is little or no correlation between Bedouin strain (tail female line) and type. This is exemplified by the fact that the family of which the Babson mare Mahroussa was an influential member were for years considered to be the 'epitome of Kehilan type' (small and rounded)- however, recent DNA studies have shown that this mare line is in fact a Seglawi/Saklavi one and therefore according to the strain theorists should be tall and scopey!
This is further shown by the fact that the Polish/Russian ideas of Kehilan and Seglawi type are the opposite way round from the Arabic definitions as publicised in the US by the German writer Raswan!
More recent breeding programmes such as Crabbet and the Polish state studs, etc have more influence now on how horses look than the old tail female lines.
(It should also be remembered that intensive show conditioning and photography regimes - especially as used in the US - can radically alter the shape of a horse from what it would look like if left to nature, which makes deducing type from glossy pro photos fraught with difficulties).
Keren |
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angelarab
Platinum Member
Wales
2876 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 6:40:40 PM
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wow learning lots of new words here, Kehilan i had heard off when i was a kid and my all time pin up bay India by Persimmon X Indian Spring i think i got in my head was the Kehilan shape?, very interesting guys off to google the bits i don't understand
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"Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 6:50:02 PM
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Poor old Angel, I'm sure all this talk of seglawi's etc is a bit off the scale for most of us!
Ok in my eyes a very simple definition that comes to my mind that I would stick on the back of a fag packet !
Egyptian - very refined, more highly strung, slight in build and most extreme. Grey comes to mind.
Spanish - laid back, beautiful eyes, good doers, easy to work with, excellent ridden horses. Grey or chestnut comes to mind
Crabbet - also laid back, stockier, not as extreme, excellent ridden horses. Chestnut with lots of chrome comes to mind
Russian - fantastic movement, strong, quite masculine but still beautiful ifyswim, extremely eye catching. Chestnut comes to mind.
Polish - etherial, similar to Russian but possibly smaller and slightly stockier. Grey comes to mind.
All wonderful in their own right and different types attract different enthusiasts.
That's so vague it's unbelievable but is how I would describe briefly to a lay person asking the difference down the pub  |
     
Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 7:11:18 PM
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Lynda - your comment
"Well as I said Keren , I dont profess to be an expert!!! but stand a Saglawi next to kehilan and the two look like different types, the kehilan looking MORE LIKE a Russian type ."
I do have one or two Russians here at Auchmillan and no way would I say that they are "typed" as looking kehilan.
In fact quite a few of my girls and their offspring are very seglawi in type and those that actually are kehilan have a great deal of type and quality.
I remember going to a fantastic lecture once on strains and types and many different horses were put up and we had to guess the strain - believe me those who you would swear were one strain were proven to be completely different. Do you realise that each horse has so many ancestors and quite a lot have different strains within its pedigree that in this modern day the tail female isn't always what the horse in front of you shows.
Remember as Pat Maxwell (bless him) used to say Phenotype and Genotype thats what you have to look at in breeding!!!!
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Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
      
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 7:11:36 PM
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Carl Raswan himself said strains are a bit of a misnomer . and to be honest I personally liken it to astrology , how can a horse with all the differing lines in it, be classed as following the strains of only one part of its family?? it is surely a mixture of ALL of its family. but there are those that follow it like a bible.
I think there is some truth in personality traits from the tail female though, dont ask me why but it seems to follow. we now know far more about the mitrocondrial DNA past only by the female to her daughters . this may also have some baring on personality? just a thought
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www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 8:00:24 PM
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As far as personality goes I would expect that to follow from mother to daughter as the mares behaviour imprints the the foal how to react in situations. So if the mare sees people and comes over for a fuss the foal thinks this is how you behave, however if the mare sees people and high-tails it over the nearest horizon then foaly follows suit. It is very hard to break those impressions learnt at the mares side.
Sires temp can quieten or highten his offsprings reaction of course but the mare will have the biggest bearing. Follow through down the generations and the one constant is that the foal learnt from the mother.( How many of us have bemoaned the fact we have turned into/sound just like our mother? ) With the advent of ET we may see some changes? |
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Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 8:21:56 PM
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This is so interesting as Cinny is, I think from from my broad brush working out from all breed database. about 70% Polish and the rest crabbet. And love the mix of her.
But now starting on the search for a second girl to join her, so interesting hear the different types, as knew nothing when I bought Cinny - thought an arab was an arab and bought what I liked..... |
    
Cinnabar Moth --------------- -----------CF Matilda ----Red House Gaia
Susi
https://www.facebook.com/CinnabarEndurance/ |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 9:58:47 PM
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Jude you and I posted at the same time so I never read your post until now, I too have horses here Saglawi , yet daughter looks Kehilan.
horses for courses I guess. |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 10:52:22 PM
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I do find it extraordinary that this thread has been looked at nearly 700 times and yet there are only 18 posts on it, some of which are the same couple of people posting! Sure there must be some more opinions and knowledge out there in the murk?
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 12:03:27 AM
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Haha jaj, the murk...!
I think the problem is not lack of knowledge, but that it's very hard to explain type with the horse in front of you, let alone from a handful of pics. even harder if the pics are not yours.
Getting your eye in comes with exposure - as we all know - Angel has met most of our horses and she knows some of the %s involved but I bet if I said 'what type is Batman' she'd reply - "the big fluffy bay one that's really soppy" !!
Every day is a school day so we should all keep asking questions, and answering if we can.
L x |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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TOOTHLESS
Silver Member
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 01:54:25 AM
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Australia and UK have a STANDARD of EXCELLENCE concerning the Arabian horse. I am reliably informed by Egbert that many countries do not. People for whatever reason like what they like, and the standard is disregarded to an extent.
That the Arabian horse should have riding horse conformation is a given, but again halter and ridden classes and endurance events are dominated by different types.
100+ yrs ago Arabians were described as "stout" horses. Personally I believe we have moved away from that type, and there is a monied clique that dictates what is "typy'. I've been told to 'think out of the box' when considering a stallion for my mare.And I think that's the path many are on. Enough said |
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TOOTHLESS
Silver Member
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 02:06:27 AM
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Just one more point: Lady Anne Blunt is quoted as saying she could not tell the difference between the strains. This doesn't surprise me because of the millenia that went into producing the Arabian. I think Raswan threw a spanner in the works which is still there today. I believe he was discredited by Lady W and rightly so..
Have a Happy and Holy Christmas: Christ is all that matters |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 08:15:14 AM
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"I do find it extraordinary that this thread has been looked at nearly 700 times and yet there are only 18 posts on it, some of which are the same couple of people posting! Sure there must be some more opinions and knowledge out there in the murk?"
Poss people are put off posting as their comments can be construed as rude or offensive when really they are just realistic and objective.Esp as Mrs Valcq say if pictures of 'outside' horses are used.
I think jaj's cigarette packet description for down the pub is excellent and gives people (like me!) a handy link into the different strains to go on and learn more.
Are segwali body types more often eygptian and kehilian more crabbety? Or am I on completely the wrong track  |
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angelarab
Platinum Member
Wales
2876 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 10:55:21 AM
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Angel has met most of our horses and she knows some of the %s involved but I bet if I said 'what type is Batman' she'd reply - "the big fluffy bay one that's really soppy" !!
HaHa umm yes isn't he?
JAJ thanks for that it does help |
"Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 11:11:57 AM
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have found what seem to be two excellent examples of the two desert bred types we are discussing ,and as they are painted by Peter Upton no one is going to take offence if anyone criticises ( unless he does )
firstly Mirage (also called Ferhan in Araba) quote: A Saglawi Jedran Dalia.
Owned by King Faisal of Iraq, sold to Lady Wentworth of Crabbet Park Stud, England, who sold him to Selby, USA. Journal of the Arab Horse Society of England, March 1935. Mirage, Mr. Selby's wonderful twenty-five-year-old white stallion, famous in his native Arabia. He stands a scant 14.2, a sturdy model with the characteristic refinements of the best of his breed. His head is a glory and his great eyes express high but gentle spirits and gracious personality
Then IBN YASHMAK; a Kehilan Ajus of the jellabi strain
Ibn Yashmak, bred by the Blunts at Sheykh Obeyd was imported to England and later sold to RAS of Egypt
hope this has helped although I doubt it will, but if I was you Angel I would go with what you like best in life
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www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
Edited by - LYNDILOU on 22 Nov 2010 11:20:11 AM |
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Arabian Type in Pictures
