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AkramGold
Gold Member
England
843 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Oct 2010 : 2:03:01 PM
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Just wondered if anyone had found there to be any side effects from Equest Promax wormers 
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2010 : 2:22:54 PM
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| Yes, have read quite a bit about it having nasty side effects on small ponies. |
    
Hampshire |
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Honeyb060674
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4301 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2010 : 5:09:04 PM
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| I asked this very same question the other day. Our vet stared it has to be very carefully administered by weight, as it is very easy to overdose, esp in younger & smaller horses. He also told me that it isn't recommended for foals under 6 months. |
      
Claire & Sunny x
http://sunnyandclaire.blogspot.com/ |
Edited by - Honeyb060674 on 26 Oct 2010 5:09:54 PM |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2010 : 7:25:44 PM
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A friend in the US knows of several authenticated problems in Arabians using Equest - I asked a respected equine vet about it and his response was that it has a lower LD50 rate (level at which 50% of the test subjects died) than other wormers. So as has been said, it is easy to give an overdose.
Personally I won't risk it.
Keren |
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Honeyb060674
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4301 Posts |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2010 : 9:25:02 PM
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Most wormers have a x20 overdose level, Equest has a x5 so in either case you shouldn't be anywhere near the problem level. Foals are difficult to dose accurately which is why Equest shouldn't be used on them as most people have no real idea what their foals weigh.
Barbara |
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Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
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suyents
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1651 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2010 : 1:43:48 PM
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| once, several years ago, Tarac had a horrific reaction to Equest which took me completely by surprise because i had used it several times previously. He looked like a toast rack within four days and scared me terribly. Fortunately, he recovered. |
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Annette
Platinum Member
England
1551 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2010 : 3:03:50 PM
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| My beloved old boy Count Vanity died in agony less than 48 hours after having been wormed with Equest. He was 28 but in super condition and having owned him for 25 years I know his worming history was good. It broke my heart to have him die this way, and I vowed I would never use Equest again for any other horse. My feelings now seven years later are the same, but possibly Equest is safe for healthy adults, but I would advise anyone to give it a wide berth for the young and old and for anything that is not 100% healthwise. JMO folks |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2010 : 4:42:12 PM
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| Originally posted by barbara.gregory
Most wormers have a x20 overdose level, Equest has a x5 so in either case you shouldn't be anywhere near the problem level. Foals are difficult to dose accurately which is why Equest shouldn't be used on them as most people have no real idea what their foals weigh.
Barbara
Exactly.
It does require careful dosing as it is stored in fat which partly accounts for it's prolonged action, foals have minimal body fat so it is unsafe in young foals and underweight horses. It is however an excellent wormer which must have saved many lives... I have seen many horses become extremely ill and some die from emergence of encysted cyathastomes,as well as during the period when they are becoming encysted eg last week we had a rescue donkey in who sadly died despite intensive round the clock treatment.. the pm revealed, as suspected,necrotic colon and caecum due to encysted cyathastome damage.
I have less confidence in Panacur as there is extremely widespread resistance to it, though the manufacturers claim that the 5 day dosing overcomes this. It is however slower in its action so more 'gentle' and safer as a first clear out of a heavily burdened horse.
I wouldn't use Pramox (or Equest of course) on very thin animals or as a first wormer in an animal with a suspected high worm burden, but, as it happens I wormed all mine with it just before coming in for a cuppa and reading this thread...I think an Autumn worming with an anthelmintic licensed for encysted cyathastomes is essential and can be lifesaving, especially in youngsters. It also kills bots of course which need to be got rid of at this time of year as well.
Like all drugs it needs to be used carefully and responsibly but the bigger picture is that NOT killing encysted red worms is leaving a horse at considerably more risk than that of an adverse reaction to a drug which has undergone extensive tests for safety and efficacy when used appropriately and AT THE CORRECT DOSE.
I don't want to sound like a chemical queen, I firmly believe that good pasture management, mixed grazing, low stocking densities etc are of paramount importance and that use of anthelminics should be kept to a minimum, but I have just seen too much misery to risk missing out this vital strategic dose.
Cheers
Lisa |
lisa |
Edited by - lisa rachel on 28 Oct 2010 4:46:20 PM |
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WILDROSE
Bronze Member
England
57 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2010 : 5:07:41 PM
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I have read this topic with interest. I have wormed all horses at my farm at various times using equest and equest pramox and never so far had any problem. (Touches wood). This includes foals, youngsters, oldsters and stallions, the only ones omitted are pregnant mares. I have up to 30 horses here; Arabs, Anglo's & PB's so a good spread. I have recently started using Equest plus which is licensed for use on pregnant mates and will be happy to use it.
Perhaps I have just been lucky so far...difficult to say. My vets are from the Royal Veterinary Hospital & they are happy to recommend this product.
 Lindsay.
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2010 : 7:53:15 PM
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Equest is safe in pregnant mares because the mares body fat will act as the buffer, it is lack of body fat that endangers a young foal.. and perhaps a very old horse?
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lisa |
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Zenitha
Gold Member
England
1078 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2010 : 8:12:28 PM
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Agree with all Lisa says - personally I would not waste my money on Panacur, there is so much resistance to it. I bought a 2 year old gelding in a terrible state a few years ago - the owners always used panacur but it was obvious to me he was riddled with worms  . I didn't want to throw too much at him all at once (he was VERY thin) so I wormed hime over a period of weeks - first with Equimax, then Equest, then Equest Pramox. I have never seen anything like the worms that came out of that poor horse (I counted over 60 bots, along with the usual, redworm, roundworm and tape). He was a poor doer for a number of years afterwards, and only now, aged 6 does he seem finally to be able to absorb his food better and keep weight on.
I have heard tales of Equest causing miscarriage in pregnant mares - though there was never any evidence to support this - and it is awful for those whose animals do seem to have been affected by it . I must admit though, there is no other wormer I would use - all mine, pregnant mares included (though I don't use pramox on the pregnant ones, I'm sure it is not recommended for in foal mares ?)are treated with it. The foals have Equimax until six months, as do the pregnant mares when I'm worming for tape,otherwise its always Equest. Despite the fact that I don't poo pick (too many horses, too little time )they all have very low worm counts. |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2010 : 08:39:41 AM
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Agree Jane, the donkey I mentioned above had been wormed with panacur as well.
BTW how is Sammy?
The thing with Pramox is that it is not LICENSED in pregnant mares, not because it is not thought to be safe. It contains , as you know , two drugs, moxidectin and praziquantel, both of which are licensed in pregnant mares (in other wormers) but not together. As I understand it the company have not bothered with the huge expense of doing the trials necessary to get a license that includes pregnant mares. Fortunately (though not for the drug companies!) the licensing laws in this country are extremely stringent, so even when a product contains two drugs both of which have been proved safe, the combination itself must be tested.
It is for this reason, so I have been told, rather than a specific safety concern that they don't say it is ok in pregnant mares.
Cheers
Lisa |
lisa |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2010 : 11:02:30 AM
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Hi Lisa
Do you have any experience with the herbal wormers. I am sceptical but would love to use them if I thought they worked.
Also, on another site there was a thread about using diatomaceous earth, a small amount in the feed, as it destroys the worms guts 9too abrasive) but fine for the horse. I realise it probably wouldn't do for tapeworms as their heads are attached but as I have a couple of foals this year who die rather than be wormed it is an attractive option. I am never sure how much they have actually had and they won't eat feed with wormer in. I end up battered and bruised and they end up really anti me!
Thanks
Barbara |
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Mrs DJ
Gold Member
632 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2010 : 11:09:29 AM
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I have used Pramox with no ill effects. My mare, however, is generally a little on the portly side.
I was about to use it again, but following this thread has raised a question. Lisa Rachel may be able to answer it for me 
As far as I am aware, all horses sharing grazing should be wormed at the same time, with the same product? (Please correct me if I'm wrong )
The mare sharing with mine is 28, and has lost a lot of condition this year. So, what can we safely use please??
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vanishtrik
Bronze Member
England
136 Posts |
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LesleyH
Bronze Member
78 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2010 : 3:06:34 PM
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This all gets confusing doesn't it. I wormed my horse with Equimax tablets 16 days ago. He is kept on his own in a sectioned off paddock in a larger field with other horses which he can see. I poo pick every day too and have kept to what I thought was a strict worming programme. I sent a dung sample for testing the other day and the results have just come back saying they found tapeworm eggs. It has been recommended I worm him with Equest Pramox in December for tapeworm again plus it will cover encysted redworm and bots. He is a little bit tubby so I hope he will have no side effects to Pramox.
Lesley |
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Mrs DJ
Gold Member
632 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 6:57:40 PM
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We are still unsure what to do  .
I am happy to use Pramox again on my mare, but what of the mare she shares with??
I would hate for her to come to any harm, so what would be an alternative? Her bodily condition is very lean.
Would it be acceptable to use different products?
I hate using chemicals anyway, so keep worming to a minimum, and we poo pick every day. Last year I had a worm count done (low count). But, as has been pointed out, this won't show tapeworm, so I used Pramox this time last year.
I can't get anything down mine in feed either, so it has to be a paste. She has no problem with a syringe.
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 8:03:38 PM
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I don't poo pick -- horses have 8 acres so not attempting it-- harrow in the spring; have sheep grazing with them all summer and get worm counts done---always zero. I have only been worming twice a year-- with Pramox spring and autumn, but have been told I should alternate every second year with Equimax which has different active ingredients to avoid resistance building up. That would mean I wouldn't be worming for encysted cyathastomes though.... unless I used Panacur Guard 5 day course, but it doesn't sound as if that would be very effective.I used to use it every year before Pramox came out, so mine might well have built up a resistance to it.
Sorry to fire questions at you Lisa, but is it okay to use Pramox every year? No risk of resistance building up? |
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Mrs DJ
Gold Member
632 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 11:54:07 AM
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Well, the 28yr old sharing with my mare had her annual MOT by the vet a few days ago.
He said to use Equimax for the old lady, and it was acceptable to use Pramox for mine, even though they share grazing.
So, problem solved, we thought, but now I'm twittering again!! 
Zeyrha's urine is quite thick at the moment (although she has been in season). She is eating and drinking as normal, scrounging in my pockets for treats, and was ridden at the weekend (no different to how she always is). But, although she's showing no sign of actual illness, I just have this feeling that she's not quite herself.
They started coming in at night 2wks ago, so it could be the change in routine. But, if she's not 100%, should I still worm her now? Reading that some horses have had reactions has made me paranoid - more than I already was, anyway. And I hate worming with chemicals to start with, even though I know it's a necessary evil.
Advice please!
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Esther
Gold Member
United Kingdom
866 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 12:42:47 PM
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Re resistance to Equest (moxidectin)...
Our yard have just had a colt come down with an encysted small redworm eruption - he was very sick indeed and it was very scary, but what was more scary is that he had been wormed twice in the last 6 months with moxidectin, which should have meant he was clear of encysted redworms. The vet said it wasn't the first case he'd seen of moxidectin resistant small redworm. Luckily a 5 day fenbendazole did clear him, and we did his fieldmates too and found two of them to have a high immature small redworm burden coming through after a couple of days' treatment.
Just something else to be mindful of....and these encysted small redworm can lay dormant for up to two years without showing on worm counts (as they are not laying eggs). If the boogers are getting resistant to fenbendazole and moxidectin, we're screwed, as there is nothing else out there that touches them. |
paranoid horsemother
 
Photo on far right thanks to West End Photography
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Mrs DJ
Gold Member
632 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 8:19:21 PM
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Sorry to rake this up again, but just wanted to add.......
Yesterday I gave my mare Pramox.
Today, she has acute laminitis.
Nothing in her feed regime has changed. The vet said she's not heard of a wormer causing laminitis.
Will await the results of the blood tests.
She's having x-rays tomorrow.
God, I'm so frightened for her. |
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Rach1
Gold Member
England
735 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 11:12:22 PM
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| Mrs DJ - I have an old pony who has a dodgy liver, He suffers from laminitis as a result. Every time i worm him with any wormer (and believe me I think i have tried just about every product out there) he gets a dose of lami. He takes longer and longer to recover after every bout. as a result I am very reluctant to worm him and so i do the worm count thing from which i am happy to report he doesnt need worming. Good luck. |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 07:32:01 AM
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Oh goodness, i'm so sorry to hear about your mare Mrs DJ! I've only just seen this post. I do give Pramox once a year to blast red worm larvae, but i have to be so careful with my lamanitic. She is kept on the yard for at least 2 weeks after the wormer because it absolutely does make her footy and more sensitive to grass (especially if it's frosty). My arabs appear unaffected.
I poo pick at least once a day, and they have just started on a herbal worming course. I will be monitoring them extremely carefully (worm egg counts) and they will still be wormed with pramox once a year for the forseable future in the autumn.
Ros |
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Side Effects from Wormers
