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 Cushings - to pee or not to pee!
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impy
Bronze Member



108 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2010 :  10:33:58 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add impy to your friends list Send impy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My lad was diagnosed last month with cushings and is doing great, lot better since starting medication and so far no problem with him taking medication - I've read on here so many problems getting the horrible tablets down them. However my lad used to always drink a lot before and pee a lot - really wet bed. Now he is drinking even more, 2 large buckets in 7 hours but hardly anything coming out. Bed lot dryer - we are due at vets on Tuesday for 2nd lot of bloods but just wondering if this is normal(from what I've read it's not) but has anyone else experienced this? Any reply very welcome. Karon

West Yorkshire
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haggis
Silver Member


England
278 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2010 :  10:43:35 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add haggis to your friends list Send haggis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Which tablets are you on , and have you noticed any change in his behaviour?


CUMBRIA
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saddlebred
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
1706 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2010 :  07:35:27 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add saddlebred to your friends list Send saddlebred a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My old girl had a much drier bed when I put her onto 1 pergolide tablet, but she also drank half a bucket less so I am not much help to you Im afraid.

I dont know whether boys are different to girls in this respect in the same way that men can drink pints of beer and not need to pee!!

I hope your vet is able to put your mind at ease. What tablets is he on?

Based Bewdley Worcs
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impy
Bronze Member


108 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2010 :  10:26:58 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add impy to your friends list Send impy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you both for replies. He's on Prascend just half a tablet at moment and 40ml of Vitex 4 Equids. We find out on Friday if we need to up the dose when the results come back. Since been on tablets he is back to his old self (only symptom he's had was that he was lethargic)- frightened OH at vets yesterday, he thought he was out of control - he wasn't at all Rushka saw me leaving him- I was reversing the trailer back out to the car park, though it would be easier for OH to hold him than have him doing his Riverdance in the back of the trailer, but Rushka had other idea's and started his dance in the car park

The vet did put my mind at ease she said everything will be controlled once we find the correct dosage and not worry so much about everything, I caught it in very early stages and therefore prospects look good.

West Yorkshire
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saddlebred
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
1706 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2010 :  12:41:30 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add saddlebred to your friends list Send saddlebred a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am sure you will be fine. Fayre has been on pergolide now for 4 years and she is as fit as a fiddle. She wasnt clinically poorly before and was still being ridden but the medication seemed to really perk her up and give her a new lease of life. You would never believe she is 28.

Cushings is easy to control once you have a diagnosis. Keep us updated.
Debs

Based Bewdley Worcs
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Ryu
Bronze Member

62 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2010 :  12:59:24 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ryu to your friends list Send Ryu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope your horse responds well to the tablets. I'm reading this with interest because Robbie my 21 year old endurance horse was diagonsed with Cushings 3 weeks ago. He's started Pergalide 1/2 tablet per day. He's drinking a lot but I don't know how much pee because he lives out.
His coat is growing more curly than usual, he has been eating more than usual and looking less interested in life recently.
Does anyone know how long the tablets take to start working?
He also has problems with diastimas and I'm currently having to wash his teeth out twice a day. Does anyone have experience of this and what I can feed him? I'm told he can't have hay or hayledge, also chaffs such as Alpha A are even too long. He's not keen on Fast Fibre and won't eat the Grass nuts I found.
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saddlebred
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
1706 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2010 :  1:10:32 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add saddlebred to your friends list Send saddlebred a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Ryu
Sorry to hear that your horse has been diagnosed with cushings. From memory I think it does take a few weeks for the medication to take effect and your vet will also want to check the dosage.

Fayre does get food trapped between her teeth but I have never washed her mouth out. I just pick it out with my fingers and make sure she sees the dentist twice a year.

My mare eats haylage, hay and hifi without any problem. Surely you only need to change his feed if he is struggling to eat? Again, I would speak to my dentist rather than vet about that, I know that they can widen the gap so that food doesnt get trapped. What a worry for you if you are struggling to find something for him to eat. Perhaps you could ring one of the major feed producers who will be able to recommend something for you.

I am sure someone on here will have some suggestions. I hope your boy is on the mend soon.
Debs

I hope you get him sorted soon. It must be miserable for him if his diet has all got to change.

Based Bewdley Worcs
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Ryu
Bronze Member

62 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2010 :  1:58:04 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ryu to your friends list Send Ryu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Saddlebred. I suppose I could start a topic about diastimas by itself. Robbies are worst between the very furthest back teeth, so very difficult even for a dentist to get at.
He's been under Henry Tremaine a specialist equine surgical vet at the Langford Veterinary Hospital and vet school near Bristol and it was here that I was advised of what not to feed. It was also here that the gaps were widened. They seem to get worse each year and I've read that any absyses and ulcers will be slower to heal with Cushings.
He is currently having difficulty with carrots and apples. He does eat hayledge but loads comes out when I wash his mouth out so it must be getting stuck.
I think it's going to be a question of finding something he likes too as he has always been very fussy (although less so in the last few months).
Impy, do keep us informed of the next set of results.
Robbie's next test is on 4th November.
Grass is fine, but I'm a bit concerned about the coming winter.
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impy
Bronze Member


108 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2010 :  6:01:01 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add impy to your friends list Send impy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow 28 Saddlebred what a great age - I can only hope Rushka and I are together that long. Very good to hear that your mare has been on tablets for 4 years and still doing well.

Ryu sorry to hear about Robbie it's scary news to come to grips with. Sorry I cant come up with anything regards his food my lad has soaked grass nuts and loves them, as Saddlebred said maybe phone round a few feed producers. When I asked about Rushka's immune system - should I change his feed/ worm test more often my vet said not to worry once we are on the correct medication and controlling the pituitary gland everything will be ok to manage - hopefully any ulcers etc.

Got our second bloods back today - 4 wks ago he was 92 now 107. Having to up him to a full tablet a day and back for more bloods in another 4 weeks. Can't believe it though he is full of himself.

Ryu let us know how your results go - fingers crossed.

Karon

West Yorkshire
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saddlebred
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
1706 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2010 :  6:29:26 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add saddlebred to your friends list Send saddlebred a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not only is she 28 but she went out and won Veteran in hand Champion and 3rd in the Ridden Veteran at the Midlands Arabian Festival last year! It was her first show for 6 years! Here are some piccies of her there to prove that cushings is not the end of the world.




Based Bewdley Worcs
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impy
Bronze Member


108 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2010 :  10:06:17 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add impy to your friends list Send impy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
She looks great I wouldn't have guessed she was 28 by looking at her, and she looks so proud of herself, don't blame her. And still being ridden. Well done both of you.

Thank you for those -indeed not the end of the world.

West Yorkshire
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impy
Bronze Member


108 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2010 :  11:20:23 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add impy to your friends list Send impy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone who's on Prascend tablets for cushings I have just found cheap website for prescription www.365vet.co.uk from here 60 tablets £49 compared to vets £79. I have been looking for few weeks now and I think because it's a new drug not many places selling it yet still doing Pergolide.

West Yorkshire
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Karon
Gold Member

England
1411 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2010 :  10:22:15 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Karon to your friends list Send Karon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey, another Karon with an o

Ref getting the tablets down, I used to hollow out a carrot for my mare, put the tablet in then put the rest of the carrot back together and 9 times out of 10 she'd eat that. A friend crushes the tablet for her mare, mixes it with apple baby food and syringes it down her through. That's pergolide, BTW. Haven't heard of the new tablets though.

Was it the ACTH that was tested? 107 isn't actually that bad in that case - friend's mare was 250+ an came down to under 50 after a month on pergolide.

From my experience, it took a good 2 or 3 weeks for the tablets to really start working - around 2 weeks after taking them my mare went off her feed but I was prepared for that as I'd been warned about it, the solution was to split the pergolide into two doses for a couple of weeks which worked well.

Try www.metabolichorse.co.uk for info on feeding etc - Jackie is very helpful and really gave me loads of advice when my mare was diagnosed with Cushings.

Sadly, I persuaded the vet too late for the pergolide to give Khafif more than another 18 months but I know that, if you get them diagnosed early enough, they can go on for many years on the drugs.
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kate b
Gold Member


Wales
1418 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2010 :  12:07:05 PM  Show Profile  Send kate b an AOL message Bookmark this reply Add kate b to your friends list Send kate b a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sue sorry to hear about Robbie's problems, it doesnt seem that long ago when I bought him as a 3 year old!! Doesnt time fly. We have a 30 (ish) year old gelding who cannot manage hay or haylage - we give him a large amount of Veteran Chaff which he eats overnight when he is stabled (all our horses are still out 24/7) - he seems to love the taste of it. We have moved to Monmouth so just down the road from you now, you are more than welcome to pop up and grab a bucket full of it to see if Robbie likes it before buying a bag. Give me a ring if you want to pop up.

Give Robbie a kiss from me!

Kate
xxx


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impy
Bronze Member


108 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2010 :  12:19:09 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add impy to your friends list Send impy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not many Karon's about in fact your only the second I've ever known, and an arab owner too! Thank you for the tips and website.

Don't know if it's the med's /time of year or what but last few days he has got bit ratty, ears flat back and threating to bite - not him at all. Can't wait for med's to kick in and start working so he gets back to normal loving boy I know.

West Yorkshire
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Ryu
Bronze Member

62 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2010 :  2:59:11 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ryu to your friends list Send Ryu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow!! Kate do you realise that you only live 15 minutes from Robbie!
He would be so honoured if you would like to come and see him!! (Actually I would)
Is it you who has ordered the Veteran Molchaff from Ross feeds? I spotted it in there only about 1/2 hour ago and said to them that I should try it. It says that it is easy to eat on the bag. They are really good in there for ordering stuff which they don't normally stock. He lives out all year with access to a shelter so I can put it in there for him.
Yes I'd love to try some, somewhere in the several owners between you and me he became a very fussy devil.
If you still have the same mobile no as about 10 years ago, Ive got it. (I think we checked at the crabbet show last year)

I'm getting Robbie's tablets down just in a small handful of mix at the moment. He can't seem to bite through carrots and apples very well.
I think he's starting to respond to the tablets now he's drinking a bit less and getting his old mad ways back charging round etc, but his coat is really curly!

Saddlebred. Fayre looks fab. I hope Robbie looks that good at 28. I think they said he is marginally Cushings so hopefully he'll be ok as long as I manage his teeth. In any case I'll post the test results.
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Ryu
Bronze Member

62 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2010 :  3:08:12 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ryu to your friends list Send Ryu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Impy, I hope the meds do start to kick in soon. Is the test being ajusted for the time of year. My vet said that at this time that the (is it ACTH) levels are often high in normal horses. (I may have misunderstood this as I was new to Cushings and trying to take it in)
In any case fingers crossed for you.

I've found that Robbie has been more loving recently than less or is it just quieter and can't be bothered.
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kate b
Gold Member


Wales
1418 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2010 :  4:51:30 PM  Show Profile  Send kate b an AOL message Bookmark this reply Add kate b to your friends list Send kate b a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sue yes I still have the same number! Give me a ring and we will arrange a visit to see Robbie. It would be lovely to see him again after all these years. I might have to meet you somewhere as I havent a clue where anywhere is around here yet!

It wasnt me that ordered some from Ross Feeds - at least I dont think it was! We havent been here long and still trying to find my way around and visited a feed shop last week and spoke to them about it (as they didnt stock it!) This shop was in Monmouth though.

Edited to add it was Ross Feeds that I went to - just found the receipt! How spooky!

Kate



Edited by - kate b on 25 Oct 2010 5:09:47 PM
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ella
Gold Member


United Kingdom
786 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2010 :  6:45:57 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ella to your friends list Send ella a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Impy, I hope your blood results show good control already, I'm waiting on results for my 14yr old gelding at the moment. He was drinking so much he had to pee every 30mins, but much, much improved within a week of starting pergolide.

Prascend is a brand name for the veterinary licensed pergolide. I notice if you buy a box of 160 tablets it's only a little more expensive than the generic pergolide that the vet isn't allowed to prescribe for new customers any longer.

I am having awful trouble getting my gelding to eat the tablets
I'll have to try Pasha's yoghurt idea, I guess a thick yoghurt is quite hard to spit out? He can smell the dratted things a mile off & is very adept at spitting them out if I manage to sneak one inside his mouth in a carrot! He now rejects unmedicated feed, apples & marmite sarnies, just incase I've poisoned them, having been rudely caught out a few times.

Tonight he'll be having them syringed in golden syrup - hope that's too sticky to fire down my top, any tips greatfully received.



"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B.
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Gail
Gold Member

993 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2010 :  10:13:55 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gail to your friends list Send Gail a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi,

Pergolide takes a little time to work depending on the horse but you should see improvement after a month. It will take longer for the coat to change but the eyes and the thirst and general demeanour starts to improve more quickly. My tb was diagnosed in January and we clipped him out as with the excess coat and the imbalance in their bodies they cannot control their temperature very well. When his coat grw back in it came back in normally and so far his winter coat is a normal winter coat.He stopped drinking and peeing so much quite quickly too. I might be a bit concerned if he was drinking lots and not peeing!!!! Would definitely follow that up.

With regards to the issue with the diastome, Mouse had this too and I had the vet attend to his teeth with sedation and drill, so it can be done even if its far back and if the dentist cannot do it get someone else. Mouse had 5 or 6 diastome in total and now eats his hay, haylage, carrots apples whatever he wants with no trouble at all.

Hope that helps, unfortunately for me this is my second horse with Cushings but he looks great at the moment.

Gail x
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impy
Bronze Member


108 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2010 :  1:14:39 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add impy to your friends list Send impy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi, A quick update - Rushka has gone from very dry bed hardly peeing to exceptionally wet bed. Not a problem at least it's coming out now

When he went up to a full tablet on 19th I took him off the Vitex 4 Equids thinking I will see if the acth range comes down on Prascend alone. He to me in those 10 days he got depressed. So yesterday back on Vitex, when he was on both Prascend and Vitex he perked up in days, so we will see. Fingers crossed he is still ok taking the tablets.

My friend who's horse is on Pergolide tried chewing humbugs and as it got chewy stuck the tablet in that - it worked for a few weeks!

West Yorkshire
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ella
Gold Member


United Kingdom
786 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2010 :  7:59:22 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ella to your friends list Send ella a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just a quick update - I've found the magic bullet for carrying my Pergolide tablets: freshly squished in a pill-crusher & syringed mixed with Marmite. He hasn't spat this out once!
Reluctant to resort to too much sugar in a Cushing's case, so fingers crossed this continues to work.



"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B.
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