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highridarabians
Bronze Member
 England
128 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 2:59:56 PM
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Hi Everyone,
A friend of mine has a youngster thats windsucking, hes stabled at a training yard at the minute and has been out but only on the odd occassion as hes still a colt so limited space.
She has her own field for him at home.
What would help ? I thought through him out in the field at home eating might take his mind off his habit before it takes a full hold & plus hes only a baby so maybe its the stress of being in ?
Can stress bring this habit on ?
He used to crib at tea times on occasion but recently hes doing it all the time ? (No other horses near him that do it)
Any help or previous experience would be really appreciated :)..shes really worrid about it;(
Can it be stopped/helped or is this something he will always do?
Thankyou x
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 3:23:57 PM
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Traditionally wind sucking has been associated with stress and boredom, which if he is kept in a lot could well be a factor - make sure he has plenty of roughage in his diet and plenty to chew on during the day, maybe a horseball feeder thing that trickles out pellets would help.
However there is a new theory that it is caused by poor digestion, and a couple of studies indicated that feeding an antacid supplement reduced the habit markedly. Of course his digestion could well be improved if he had access to turnout 24/7 - after all horses are not designed to be stabled constantly. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 18 Jun 2010 3:27:43 PM |
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highridarabians
Bronze Member
England
128 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 3:59:19 PM
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Thanks ill ask her to try that !
Are there any antacid supplements that are better than others ?
Is there any certain kind of feeding program that would help if acid is the problem ? |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 4:34:38 PM
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yes, I would say its stress related , horses no matter what age and sex when confined for long periods will usually develop some sort of stable vice as its called , ( although we call it a vice when it is actually inflicted by us upon innocent animals) ,imagine the boredom and lonliness not being able to be with your own kind in yor own natural environment ? no , I cant either  |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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highridarabians
Bronze Member
England
128 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 4:39:41 PM
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I agree with what your saying but if your are traning a youngster epecially a colt how can you condition them & trian them unless you keep them in ? tough one 
There are other horses around him so it seems strange that its him thats stressed ....or as its the first place hes been to apart from his birth home then maybe thats whats triggered it ...maybe.. ??
I dont know anything about windsuckers as Ive never had one but both of your suggestions seem worth a try !!
Many Thanks |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 5:48:08 PM
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How you train them ? little and often !not for long periods of time , all you will achieve in your training is a stressed young animal who goes on to be a stressed older animal and much harder to train.
if he has come from his birth place where he ran with his mum and other horses and then is put into a stable where he has no interaction ( apart from seeing other horses in other stables ) chances are he will be very unhappy. Little and often in stables little and often out of stables with other horses , bring him in spend time training him and after a treat of some sort put him out again, you did ask For advice and I am trying to give it  |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 5:57:34 PM
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I'm with Lyndilou, I don't agree with any horse being kept in full time, but particularly not a youngster - it is asking for trouble. As Lynda says, short periods of training, don't overdo it, finish on a good note, reward him and turn him out, it is so much healthier for him mentally and physically (including his digestion), I should change his regime completely, and hope that the windsucking has not already become a completely ingrained habit. Good luck
By the way Feedmark do an antacid for horses - I don't know how good it is because I've never had to use it, might be worth looking at their website. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 18 Jun 2010 6:03:06 PM |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 5:59:19 PM
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Rather sadly it's a vice that rarely stops even when the stress is gone.
My friend had a mare that cribbed and would even use another horse to windsuck on. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 6:44:24 PM
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| Im with Lyndilou on this one, i would totally rethink his daily life, you would be amazed what you can achieve from the field, my mare evented at jrn/novice level from a field and she was far happier this way. Best of luck and i hope you can sort this little chappie out. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 7:39:44 PM
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Sadly many people keep colts entire thinking they will make the grade as a breeding stallion , the sad fact is there are far too many breeding stallions who should NOT be!
the owners live in a dream world thinking they have the future star that will make them lots of money. the stats tell us that for every colt born per year only 1% may make it to 5 years as a stallion , then after 5 years only 5% of all colts born in those 5 years will be a worthy stallion. if people would wise up there might be more happy geldings and less unhappy colts |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 7:49:24 PM
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I can only echo the others and also feel very strongly about this. I am appalled at this quote--" how can you condition them & trian them unless you keep them in ? tough one"
All you are conditioning and training any young horse to be is a very unhappy and difficult adult by keeping him stabled 24/7, not to mention arresting muscular/skeletal development. Stable him at night if you must, but he should be out with other horses during the day, which is important for his psychological well being and also physical development. As Lynda says, you can achieve much more training little and often, making it a pleasure for the horse, than incarcerating it in a stable and intensive training.
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 8:02:54 PM
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Sadly "those who are supposedly in the know!!!" want yearlings to be pumped full of food, do training, never turn them out (maybe because they are frightened they might hurt themselves) want them to come into the showring looking like an express train, REALLY mature and well covered.
When are we going to realise that youngsters need freedom and happiness to express themselves NATURALLY and not with outside interference.
We were lucky when we put our colt to be trained and showed the other year -he came home happy and relaxed.
This year our colts (now gelded) are still out with their mums (sorry now yearlings but mums not in foal) they are happy and such relaxed and chilled boys.
I totally agree a youngster in a "restricted" environment YEARNS to be out playing with other youngsters - hence the awful habits!!!
My advice to your friend - if she cherishes herr boy and wants the best for him in the future - bring him home, geld him and turn him out to enjoy his youth!!!!
Hey but what do I know - I try to breed happy horses for future ridden homes, where they will be loved and cherished!!!! |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
      
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 9:12:40 PM
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Out out out!!!!
Even entires, in my opinion, should be out! If you cant keep them out safely, have them cut!
My friend has a stallion that, until he came to her at about 12 years of age, had NEVER been turned out...He does spend time out now but it has taken him years to get used to it,what a sad solitary life he has led.
In my eyes that is abuse. |
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 11:04:49 PM
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Get him out 
My yearling is currently being condidtioned and trained too....she goes out at 8am after her brekkie, comes in at 6.30pm, and does a little "playtime" training...and being a bit of a diva, (she insists shre will melt if it rains on her!) she stays in at night, stabled next to her mum.
She probably won't be as big or well covered as the rest in her classes....but she'll have a long and happy, stress free life as a riding mare once she's older |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 11:21:22 PM
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I agree with everyone that horses should be out for at least several hours every day. My stallion says with the proviso that the weather isn't too bad (he is a real wimp)!
I bought a 2 year old colt who had no turnout and he was a real gem in his stable 24/7 but his eyes were dead; he had just switched off. I had just bought 18 acres of land and had the perimeter fenced but couldn't afford to split it so when he came here had 18 acres to himself; it just blew his mind. It took ages to get him to behave properly. He would gallop at me when I went to the field and then try to jump on me, he had no idea how to behave. I am lucky I survived to tell the tale! Eventually he relised that he went out EVERY day and came in at night and settled to his routine. His eyes were so different; he was bright and alert and the most intelligent horse I have ever seen.
Please tell your friend to sort out something for her colt so that he has a quality life and not a prison sentence. He needs fresh air, freedom and exercise. His training should be fitted in with a life of freedom; he will be much easier to train (unless he dies inside as my colt had) and he will look so much better and be a lot healthier.
Barbara |
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xsara
Gold Member
822 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 12:43:27 AM
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| I would certainly get a supplement for his stomach an anti acid or one for ulcers. I would also recommend getting him out of the stable longer and giving him things to keep his mind occupied. I had a 4yr who was stabled opposite a horse who through sheer boredom started to windsuck and the owners did nothing about it and it got really bad well bout 4 months later just when the horss were near ready to go out for summer she picked it up and started to copy, so i tried everything i could to stop it and adventually when she went out in the field in summer she did stop io sold her she went into a yard on full livery and she never did it again. I ended up increasing her exercise, putting creosote on the door where she was biting, and an anti crib collar which to my amusment the yard owner thought was cruel and kept taking it off cause she had never seen her do it. It started at feed times when the owner would feed every horse on the yard but mine so i then also went up at lunch and got them out for a wee run and feed them lunch it all helped. Xsara she is same if she is stressed or not happy she has been seen to windsuck though she only rarely does it she picked up as a yearling when someone put there horse in the paddock with her that windsucked and to my horror i was grooming her one day and as nice as you like grabbed a bar and sucked though she doesnt do it normally but i do have to keep her happy |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 08:36:56 AM
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| Barbara, how many times I have seen that dead look in the eyes of horses, the ones who just switch off, it is noticable to all who take the time to see, I have seen it in Egypt where horses are worked solidly all day without food /shade or water, I have seen it here with horses confined, it is still abuse by any name |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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littlearabians
Gold Member
1323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 09:02:43 AM
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I don't know what will help, its a tricky game getting something to stop wind sucking... a lot of them do it because of stomach problems like ulcers, even a youngster can get these... so perhaps worth getting the vet to check for this, you can feed them some powder that will heal this.
I have a TB mare in for covering at the moment, and she is so into her wind sucking that she grabs the oak trees out on the field... stable or field, if they feel a need to do it they will. |
www.littlearabians.com
Classic Polish Arabians
Worcester based
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vanishtrik
Bronze Member
England
136 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 12:19:12 PM
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we have a windsucker, an exracer hes turned out 24/7 during the summer, he still windsucks he stands near the gate or tree and when i get him in to tack him up he windsucks on the rope, iv been told not to try and stop him as that can stress them even more, and i find that in winter when he comes in at night i feed brewers yeast it seams to help a little. hes not a stressy horse quite laid back really, so who knows why he started doing it
karen |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 1:25:35 PM
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As for antacids the best one to use is GastroGuard but a cheaper alternative is Antepsin. Gaviscon is ok for horses though if you friend wanted to try something quickly.
Once windsucking is ingrained it is better to just let them exhibit the behaviour. Stopping or preventing grabbing hold can be highly stressful. If the horse holds it's weight and is not causing itself other issues by windsucking then why stop it? (OBV I am talking about horses who are confirmed windsuckers, every effort should be made to prevent this in the first place.) |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 1:49:04 PM
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| Gastro Gard is fantastic. I have Bedawi on Equine America's U Gard (maybe called Ulcer Gard now) as a precaution now he is on box rest. The last thing I want to create is stress and the habits it brings. |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 3:25:31 PM
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Sorry to be another on the bandwagon but I am completely against too much stabling. Our stallion has been out 24/7 with access to the stables and has been across electric tape to my gelding with no problems. The problems come when getting near another horse is 'new' and exciting.
I agree with Caryn and others that training should be done as part of the horse's natural life-cycle. Happy life, more cooperation and more genuine, established obedient, positive relationship with the horse.
It seems very sad to me that people think they need to get their precious future show horse 'sent away' at vast expense like a small child being handed over to boarding school and incarcerated for the vicarious pleasure of the owner/parent who wants the reflected glory of its 'posession' doing well, whatever the cost to the youngster...
I have a friend who succumbed to buying a show hunter foal. Unfortunately it was fed unbelievable amounts of high protein hard feed and by the time it was weaned and my friend took her home, the damage was done. She had already developed the forerunner to ulcers.
The filly ended up permanently windsucking as it was one of the only ways it had found to deal with the pain. She was pts aged just 3 because she ended up colicking - even through the stress of being put in a new field on the farm.
Do the colt a favour, if it's not too late already, get him gelded, allow him turnout and try to get your friend to be reasonable about her expectations and ambitions for him as a show horse. Even if he won the Nationals one day, would this be worth it? |
Roseanne |
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highridarabians
Bronze Member
England
128 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 8:06:05 PM
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Wow what a brilliant response & big help you have all been ....definately lots to help the situation !!
Well after talking to you guys last night she brought him home earlier today & hes in his own field ...loving being a baby !!...plus hes not windsucked once ...yet...fingers crossed although Im sure its not quite that simple 
Shes decided to scrap training this year as its too late anway & not its helping the little guy at all & after all he is her main concern.
One more thing while Im on....hes been biting himself whilst hes been stabled aswell...flanks mainly but big chunks  !! Im guessing this is another stress related issue ?!? is it
Youve all been a huge help thankyou from us both x
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 8:14:29 PM
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So glad to hear your news, I'm sure the poor little guy will be so much happier and healthier , I have no personal experience of horses biting themselves, but it certainly sounds like he was extremely unhappy to me.
The only thing I would ask is does he have any company? Learning to be part of the herd is all part of growing up, and horses are herd animals, even other horses the other side of a fence offer companionship. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 19 Jun 2010 8:19:12 PM |
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Youngsters & Windsucking
