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Kelly
Platinum Member
England
1571 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 11:43:55 AM
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Sorry, this will be long, to give you the full picture!
I hope you guys can give me some insight to what on earth is going on in our field!
History: 27 year old gelding and 17 year old mare, been together (with the odd temporary addition) for about 13 years. Then, 5 years ago, add Jack, now 8.
Elder two obviously pair bonded, Jack tolerated and allowed to mingle, but bottom of the pecking order. Either of the boys can be left alone, though get a bit stressy (Jack ok in field), but mare has to be stabled if left alone or she’ll jump out of the field.
Hierarchy – elder gelding (Sky), mare (Fe), younger gelding (Jack).
4 years ago, Fe had a foal, Phoebe. Phoebe lived with them until weaned at about 9 months, then went off to East Yorks (to daughter of owner of Fe).
Now, Phoebe back… (various reasons).
So, arrived yesterday, in afternoon, put Jack out with Phoebe, thinking he was the most easy going, and they could ideally pair up. Lots of kicking out, Jack not settled, and yelled non stop for Sky and Fe. So, put all 4 out together. Jack immediately started galloping at Phoebe full tilt, and chasing her round. Even if she was at the other end of the field. No biting or real nastiness. Sky busy herding Fe away from Phoebe.
Left them to it, by teatime, dynamics had changed. Both boys just keeping out of the way, and war between the girls.
Brought all 4 in, only 3 stables, so the existing ones got their own. Phoebe squealing at everyone (now in season), and trying to get in Fe's stable to get at her. Fe being almost as bad. Ended up tying Fe at the back of her stable, and standing guard at the door. Poor old Sky’s pulled something in his leg, and Jack just didn’t know what to do with himself.
Put both boys out first this time, and left someone in the field to watch them, while I went back to help mare’s owner. As Phoebe is currently unsafe to lead (especially at the moment), getting them to the field involved me leading Fe and someone else ‘herding/shooing’ Phoebe. Not fun – cue fighting, rearing, squealing and lashing out – in close confines with one loose horse trying to attack the one I was leading. I climbed a fence to get out of the way as soon as I unclipped the leadrein. (I shook for some time afterwards).
This morning, both mares have scrapes, but have subsided to scowling, herding and occasional darts. Fe won’t let Phoebe near either of ‘her’ boys. Removed Sky for his breakfast, left the others in the field. Will give them a few days to settle.
So, two questions – why did Jack run at Phoebe the way he did?
Why is Fe, never top of the pecking order, suddenly ruling the roost? I understand that it’s a dominance thing between two mares, there must be an order. But Fe has never been ‘top’ before?
Thanks for reading if you got this far!
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Kelly
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 5:44:58 PM
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1) Jack ran at Phoebe only when he had back up from the other horses (even if they didn't appear to be helping him). As the bottom of the existing pecking order he felt the most threatened initially by the newcomer & had his first chance for a long time to NOT be bottom.
2)Sounds like within a few hours, new mare had both boys pretty much in their place.
3) Are you sure Fe wasn't always the leader? Almost always a mare will be dominant over a gelding, unless she is very young. Could it be that they are so well bonded that she appears passive to Sky, but actually leads from the rear - pushing him to 'go first'? Sometimes the most dominant horse is the one most concerned about their own safety, who ensures they are always protected by the others.
Eeek, sounds like you have your hands full with the waring mares, hope they settle soon. |
   
"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 6:07:37 PM
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We have 3 geldings and 2 mares, currently they are split into 2 groups, but if they are all in together there is quite a strange dynamic. Nush our 22 year old mare bullies Harley the 19 year old gelding, Harley bullies Lily my 5 year old mare (except when he decides he likes her), Lily bullies Nush. Charlie my sister's 11 year old gelding bullies Lily but is bullied by everyone else. Woody the welsh section C bullies everyone (he has small man syndrome), in spite of his behaviour, Harley is very fond of Woody. This is why Lily and Charlie are in one paddock and Harley, Nush and Woody are in the other.
Edited to add
Charlie was definitely bottom of the heap until Lily arrived, and instantly he decided she was his, he was so excited by her and although he bosses her around, they are very bonded. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 14 Jun 2010 9:03:25 PM |
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proctorclaire
Silver Member
437 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 9:11:49 PM
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There is mayhem in our fields just now as well. We have three mares in the field Sophie (13), Jay (8) & April (10) plus a gelding calleed Nelson (13).
Jay hates Nelson and they always fight. Sophie and Jay are obsessed with each other and April just potters about with everyone. Nelson likes Sophie.
A new gelding called Harry (5) came into the yard a wee while ago. Nelson hates him and they fight like hell, Jay hates him, April hates him and now Jay and Nelson love each other. They have all came in with war wounds.
The field is now split with Nelson and Jay together (who hated each other before) and then Harry and Sophie together (when Sophie and Jay were always together) and April again just pottering between everyone. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 10:47:19 PM
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This won't help with the situation at all - but is the reason why my YO only has geldings at livery.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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xsara
Gold Member
822 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 11:04:50 PM
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| My guess would be phoebe is now four and so a mare and not a foal when she left. I had trouble last year with my two mares 3 and 5 the 5 yr was the boss and would boss the 3 yr until one day she had enough and turned i then couldn't turn them out together even with a wooden fence between them they were putting the planks out kicking at each other. They are trying to sort out the dominance and hopefuly they will sort it out with out any one getting hurt and start to settle. |
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Kelly
Platinum Member
England
1571 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 11:28:43 AM
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Thank you all for your thoughts.
Alison, answer 1 was just as I thought, see, I have been listening!
Number 2, yes, definitely!
Number 3 - you're probably right, though I haven't seen it (and I have looked). But it would explain it.
Things are quieter now - after I left yesterday, the other ladies removed the elder gelding (for his massage and feed  ), and then the elder mare, to deal with her leg. Leaving Jack and Phoebe. Well, Phoebe went ballistic when Fe was removed (leader gone), and poor Jack just stood and looked upset by the stupid mare creating havoc. Then she calmed a bit.
Last night, we removed Sky, and left the other 3 in the field, no problem, just some herding ('you are NOT having my man, I don't care if I didn't want him before.....')
This morning, Sky in again, Fe in to have her leg dealt with, and Phoebe in in Jacks stable to stop her going ballistic (and get her used to being brought in). Jack homeless, so we did some groundwork in the field to keep his mind occupied - he was a very good boy, and tried to concentrate   |
Kelly
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Horse behaviour/psychology
