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Tzarina
Platinum Member
England
1997 Posts |
 Posted - 18 May 2010 : 12:40:28 PM
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Carol, sorry to read about what you are going through with this girl. I cant add anything to the advice already given, but I know how frustrated you must be feeling. There used to be a woman on a yard I was on who had a collection of shetlands, not looked after and severely undernourished. Trouble was, she was very friendly with high up people in the RSPCA, so even if you reported her, she was forewarned by them that they were coming to inspect her and made an effort. Someone with not much knowledge people might think, No, this woman was a pally breeder and judge.
If, like it seems that this girl is a novice, then in her eyes, just by rescuing the mare she is thinking she has done good and hasnt weighed up the expense that the mare is going to cost her. I think Honey's suggestion is a good idea regarding forewarning her that she will be reported for undue care to the mare, after all she is in her ownership now.
I really hope that this problem is resolved with the least stress to you. Some people just dont have the brains and foresight required to be animal owners |
    
Tzarinaarabians@yahoo.com
"The horse is God's gift to mankind."
"The daughter who wont lift a finger in the house is the same child who cycles madly off in the pouring rain to spend all morning mucking out a stable."
"All horses deserve to be loved by at least one little girl during their life" |
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dinkidoo
Gold Member
United Kingdom
652 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 4:47:31 PM
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Just a quick update re the poor mare.
Had my farrier today, the girl emailed me yesterday to say hold off on anyone coming as was costing her a fortune to get her car mot. I didn't get message until very late as id been busy all day so sent a message via my mum to say he was booked and too late to cancel. There wasn't much he could do to be honest, her bad leg he agrees that it looks like she has broken her knee and its been left to set. She can't bend it or lift it very high and her other foot has grown oddly to compensate for the shift in weight and movement. He has tidied them up though and checked for anything else that could be hurting her.
Ive spoken to her today and insisted that the vet come on thursday which is her day off. Im going to give my vets a call tomorrow to check the appointment has been booked and speak to the vet ive told her to ask for and give him the background on the situation. He's a lovely guy and will talk for hours so im hoping he can talk some sense into her.
She has also agreed to leave her feed out for me in the morning, ive told her that once the vet has been based on what he says if he thinks its appropriate i will slowly introduce her to my herd and to some grass.
Its such a shame the mare is so bright in the eye and friendly, the girl said today that she appreciates that there may not be much they can do for her but will try her best to at least make her happy, even if that means she has to pts.
At least the horse gets seen by me every morning, afternoon and mum in the evening so although this girl is a complete novice with issues on taking advice we are there to make sure that nothing wrong is happening to her.
So bit more positive today, still have to sort the feed business out but hoping after speaking to the vet she will be more inclined to either do it properly or not at all.
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Honeyb060674
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4301 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 8:51:04 PM
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At least you've had some postive movement! And sounds like you're on your way to firmly (but fairly) putting your foot down. GO CAROL!! Hopefully she'll get her finger out & give the guys a call at S.House & they'll talk some sense into her, David's quite good at that.
Sounds like she really does mean well by this mare, but its such a huge responsibility she needs to be told straight of the potential costs involved. I really hope it turns out for the best for all of you, it sound like this mare deserves a lucky break...and I KNOW you do!! |
      
Claire & Sunny x
http://sunnyandclaire.blogspot.com/ |
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precious
Platinum Member
England
2253 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 09:22:12 AM
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Well done for supporting her and the mare. 
It really does sound like she cares for the horse. It is hard when your not brought up with horses you do hope that you find someone with a heart like carols that will help and support you.
Yes selling a horse with problems to a complete novice isnt good but imagin what would be the state of the mare now if she hadnt got her and was still with the person that didn this to her.
At least the vet will advise too on future of the mare.
Again well done for sticking with the mare and owner to give them the benifit of doubt many wouldnt have and passed them onto someone else, leaving mare and owner in worse situation.
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Gemma Thompson
Birmingham West Midlands
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 12:00:10 PM
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Agree there Pop, totally boring  It would have been kinder to have the mare PTS AND shot the seller!
A few observations, for those that really can't see it, about this wonderful new owner who some think the mare is better off with and is apparently a saint for 'rescuing' the mare -
1 - She has ignored advice about what to feed and how to feed 
2 - She was told the farrier was needed but has decided her car is more important and she can't afford him
3 - If she really was a caring person who wanted to help this mare why is she not there at least twice a day to feed the mare, fuss her, take her for a pick of grass, etc etc etc?
4 - Most important, and what makes me most angry, she has owned the mare since Sunday, this horse is obviously in need of urgent veterinary treatment, and guess what, this saint of a novice owner who apparently really is doing her best by the mare and who some think the horse is better off with, HAS NOT CALLED A VET even though she has been advised to!!!!!!  She doesn't care, if she did the vet would have been there first thing Monday morning!!
Come on people  !!! Still think she is the best person to own this poor mare? This poor horse never asked for any of this and it is probably kinder, especially with her leg injury, to have her PTS bless her.
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 12:06:37 PM
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I don't think she is the BEST person for this mare - but she's probably better than the person who happily let her get into this condition and then sold her on to a total novice and uncertain future - poor, poor animal. |
   
Louise, Warwickshire |
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Tzarina
Platinum Member
England
1997 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 12:38:04 PM
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Angel2002, as I'm sure you've come across yourself in the past, not every horse owner thinks the same as most of the people on AL when it comes to the welfare of a horse or their horses. As I wrote in my post, this girl is probably under the impression that she is St Christopher for rescuing the poor mare from its previous owner and cant see beyond that. She could be one of those people who goes round and asks everyone their opinion and then listens to none of it.
Carol obviously has a better understanding of the girl, she is dealing with her and we are only making assumptions, but it does seem that she has no idea what she's let herself in for - the girl with the mare that is.
One would be tempted to call the vet, but then would the girl cough up the money for the bill. If I was there my fingers would be so itchy to intervene and do the right thing and not think about the expense, but Carol is doing what she thinks is right and it is her yard. Maybe she should just call one of the rescue centres and let them advise the girl, if she wont pay for the vet to attend.
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Tzarinaarabians@yahoo.com
"The horse is God's gift to mankind."
"The daughter who wont lift a finger in the house is the same child who cycles madly off in the pouring rain to spend all morning mucking out a stable."
"All horses deserve to be loved by at least one little girl during their life" |
Edited by - Tzarina on 19 May 2010 12:39:28 PM |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 1:15:27 PM
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Angel2002,
Come on people !!! Still think she is the best person to own this poor mare? This poor horse never asked for any of this and it is probably kinder, especially with her leg injury, to have her PTS bless her.
I don't think anyone is thinking that she is the best person to own this mare, I'm certainly not. But what I do feel is that, in my opinion, based on what we presume about the seller i.e. them selling her at the roadside and her condition, that the new novice owner, with help, is a better option than her staying with the seller.
I confess to be somewhat aghast that you would, at this stage, ask anyone to agree with you that it is kinder to have her shot; unless you are a vet and have examined the mare, I cannot agree that a description on a forum provides sufficient information to make a decision that it is the greatest kindness to kill the mare. When you "PTS", they don't sleep you know, they are dead, no going back.
If the mare is (and I quote) looking happy enough and having a shaky canter, it seems to me reckless to rush out with the gun/needle at this stage.
Far too hasty.
If necessary and requested, the ILPH will visit and if they think it appropriate, they will call a vet, and they would advise if they thought you are right and she should be shot as a necessary kindness.
I sincerely think it is far too trigger happy to just go ahead and shoot her under the guise of kindness at this stage and given the information available.
Personally; I would give the girl and the mare a chance. I appreciate it if you have only seen cases like this end in disaster, but I have seen very many success stories, given a little time and education or a heavy had where appropriate.
Having said all that, I am aware that there are people who would routinely shoot a horse when it was not longer useful for riding/breeding etc.
I see we don't agree, and I pray that all 'novices' don't listen to all 'experts' with loaded guns.
Happy days :)
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 1:20:40 PM
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You are right there Tina, no everyone is the same and I have known quite a few who ask everyone and listen to no-one I really do feel for Carol finding herself in this horrible position and I agree that we can only make assumptions.
I am assuming that this girl hasn't 'pulled the wool' and owned the horse for longer than she has told Carol. Who is to say that she hasn't been told to move the horse from another yard because of her neglect? She did seem to aquire the mare rather quickly? How do we know it wasn't her previous lack of correct care that got the mare in this condition? You could then ask where/who did she get this mare from, are there others in the same/worse condition?
All 'what if's' and as you say Carol is doing the best she can with a bad situation. I think I would be inclined to call a rescue centre as this girl is obviously not interested in getting the best care for this poor mare, perhaps they can ask her where she got her from?
Such a shame, always the horses that suffer....
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 1:26:46 PM
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It seems very strange how somebody who seems so eager to get their own horse is so laps in looking after it and taking advice, expecially with the condition it is in, is it possible that she has owned it for longer than she says and has been kicked off of her previous yard
It just seems strange that she finds a yard, buys a horse from a trailer the same day, and it turns up the following day
But the main priorty here is the horse and I think that I would ring up ILPA or similar organisation to find out what can be done if the owner doesn't start being responsible for the care of this poor mare |
Berkshire
   
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dinkidoo
Gold Member
United Kingdom
652 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 1:33:11 PM
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Progress!
Today feed was left for me to put in which i did first and the mare looked so grateful, I was at the end of my haylage bale too so i had to clear it all up so made her a massive net and put it up so i could sweep the haylage area.
The vet is coming tomorrow the vet that i have recommended who i know will not leave the yard unless he is happy with the situation.
Just as i was leaving this morning the girls partner arrived, i explained id had to make her net as i had cleared the area for a fresh bale and that she'd had her feed. He was fine with this, i also told him that i will put her feed/hay in everymorning unless they are there when i am so as not to cause her anymore stress.
He then turned her out into the playpen whilst he mucked her out and she was having a little trot (as much as she can do) round so obviously feeling a bit brighter.
I think that now the rush of adrenalin they must have felt whilst 'rescuing' her is wearing off they are starting to treat the situation more seriously and have realised that although they meant well they have seriously taken on more than they expected.
Angel and Pop i know this has got you angry as it has me but unfortunately the people that sold this horse and actually had the audacity to advertise her as a 'happy hacker' should be the ones shot. How on earth they could have risked anyone seeing her in the state she is in is beyond me nevermind invited people down to sell her to them. They are absolute criminals, ive never seen a horse unloaded and a trailer speed off so fast in my life. They couldn't even tell the girl what the horse was called (she would have had a stable name as her registered name is a mouthful) Im going to do some digging to find out when this injury happened as although we won't be able to bring a case against them for neglect (ie they could have said she had hay and water and we all know where that gets us) im sure that whoever has had this mare whilst she has been injured has not had it treated and could then be liable for cruelty because of the pain they have inflicted through lack of medical attention.
She was registered with my old vets over in Chorley, Lancs up until 2006 so going to give him a call to see if she had had this injury then. My guess is she was sold on as a broodmare and whoever has had her has just kept her stabled and continued to use her as she has good bloodlines.
It really is very sad, i tried to take some pictures today but my phone died so will try again tomorrow.
So for time being things are looking a bit brighter.
She is being fed adlib hay everyday, turned out in the playpen a couple of times a day where she is safe and can have a roll and relax, the food although not brilliant is better than nothing i suppose (i don't say that lightly by the way!) the farrier has been and the vet is on his way.
They are keeping her bed clean and she has fresh water so at least all the basics are being taken care of.
Will let you know what the vet says, if anyone wants to know who the dealer is pm me and i will let you know, it could be that someone has heard of him and she could be one in a long line of neglected horses, something definately needs to be done to get some justice and bring these criminals to order. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 1:46:51 PM
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Well done in getting the appointment with the vet set up, and at least you are able to keep an eye on the poor mare and ensure that she is being fed (?!), watered, mucked out and turned out. I'm sure the new owners mean well, they are just hopelessly out of their league and, it would appear, have been severely taken advantage of by a highly unscrupulous dealer. I know this is unnecessary stress for you at the moment, particularly as you are pregnant, but thank God the girl didn't just rent a patch of land and turn her out, where no-one with any knowledge would have been able to intervene on this poor mare's behalf. And let's face it, it is probably this girl's dream to own a horse, and she will be devasted if the vet advises that the best thing is for the mare to be PTS. If the vendor is a dealer then surely something could be done under the trades description act?
Good luck, and well done for caring.  |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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dinkidoo
Gold Member
United Kingdom
652 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 1:57:54 PM
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Yes hopefully Linda, she has been given a receipt from him too so can prove he sold her the horse.
Sorry cross posted with a few of you (was catching one of our rabbits that had escaped into the garden!)
Im pretty sure this girl only got the horse on sunday, although naive and inexperienced she doesn't seem like a liar, she was also really overwhelmed when we were discovering the full extent of her suffering as was i.
I am smiling about everyones concern over my pregnancy (in the nicest poss way ) I don't give it a seconds thought usually and luckily am not big at all! Im still handling our horses every day and teaching my daughter to ride, not to mention chasing rabbits round the garden My hubby is off to the middle east on friday morning so am going to decorate the living room as a suprise (whilst he's not there to interfere!!) Last time he went i decorated our bedroom (with the help of Claire Honeyb!) My friends think im mad but you've got to grab these opportunities when you can
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 2:07:51 PM
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Awwww you're a little
It's all too easy to make assumptions as has turned out here - without the facts all sorts of stories get concocted. Far too much talk about shooting people too 
Thank you for caring Carol |
Louise, Warwickshire |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 2:13:46 PM
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We don't agree? I think you are probably right there
Me, a far too hasty trigger happy expert  ! I don't think so Pop and I don't have MRCVS after my name either, just commenting on the information supplied by someone that HAS seen the poor mare!
'There wasn't much he could do to be honest, her bad leg he agrees that it looks like she has broken her knee and its been left to set. She can't bend it or lift it very high and her other foot has grown oddly to compensate for the shift in weight and movement'
Look, you obviously think this girl deserves a chance, you are of course entitled to your opinion, as Tina said we all have different ideas of what is right/wrong when it comes to the welfare of our horses. So far she has waited 3-4 days to get her horse veterinary treatment, this might be ok by you but it's not ok by me.
I also pray that 'novice' owners don't read some of the 'expert' comments on here from people who think it is perfectly reasonable for this girl to leave a horse in this condition without calling a vet!!
Oops nearly forgot, thank you for sharing your knowledge that when you "PTS", they don't sleep, they are dead, no going back'... I never knew that 
Going to re-load my gun now
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 2:27:42 PM
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I too have cross posted
Well done Carol  Looks like you managed to get through in the end, perhaps this could be a lesson to all soon to be a first time horse owners (with NO experience of horse care), ALWAYS take an expert with you, you can't just buy a book on how to look after a horse, it really isn't that easy  !!
Carol I would be interested to know who the dealer is please, as I said he definatley needs
Let us know how the vet visit goes x |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Edited by - angel2002 on 19 May 2010 2:32:37 PM |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 2:47:53 PM
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It's all very well saying novices should take experts with them, but how does the average newbie find a trustworthy 'expert'? To the uninitiated they might well consider the dealer an 'expert' on the same level as if they went into a shop to choose a tv. I know of a novice family who bought a totally unsuitable hardly broken hairy coloured cob (against advice) because they thought the fact that they were paying £3000 for it meant they were getting someting really good...The riding school my cousins went to sold them 2 unsuitable horses, one after the other...
I also know a number of people who were definitely not novices and who should have known better who have bought horses from questionable sellers (or actually known crooks) because they were cheap (and not bothered with a vetting), only to find the horse surprise surprise had problems...
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 2:56:53 PM
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LOVVVL, I'm afraid you will not be able to convince or scare me into agreeing that the seller should be shot for selling the horse to her, or that the horse should be shot without a professional opinion. I still think it’s good that the seller no longer has this horse, which is where we started. If he had not sold her to the novice, under threat of a good shooting from you, she would be still there and not in the seemingly much improved situation she is in now.
Who said "leave a horse in this condition without calling a vet"? Now that's just plain silly. It seems a vet is organised, so no need to get one via the ILPH.
:) You "Going to re-load my gun now" , Does that mean the horse and me 'cop it'
If it helps you decide if you need to load up a bullet for me ... Am I glad 'the novice' is getting advise from someone other than you. You really cannot go around saying that this horse should be PTS, shes not even been seen by a vet yet!!!!!!; suppose the novice read your advise and just 'had her PTS for kindness'.
out.
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 2:58:45 PM
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Not all complete novices are hopeless cases - a million years ago when I was ten, I was bought a 6 month old New Forest colt. Armed with only a rope halter and a good book we made friends. When he was four I broke him, schooled him and in the end he was in the Prince Phillip Gymkhana team at Wembly.
I'd also like to know who this dealer is |
Louise, Warwickshire |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 3:09:03 PM
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| Well said Montikka! Everyone has to start somewhere, and I'd far rather deal with a novice who is referring to a decent book (or several decent books, but the Pony Club Manual of Horsemanship is a pretty good starter), than someone with a bit of knowledge who thinks they know everything. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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moatside
Platinum Member
England
3224 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 3:10:09 PM
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After a 20 year "break!" from horses I bought an Anglo mare in very poor condition (had a heavy turnout rug on in July cos she was so thin). Her feet were a total mess, her teeth had not been checked for years and she had horrific mud fever past her hocks on all 4 whites. Feed regimes etc had all changed so much from me having ponies it all came as a bit of a shock - getting a dentist and farrier out proved much more difficult than just making a phone call.
With lots of TLC and trial and error regarding sorting out a feed regime that suited her she came good and we had a truely rewarding relationship until the day she died age 27. I am so glad that I did not walk away from her as advised by more than 1 person.
I am grateful that she was so trusting and forgiving of my "mistakes" and I would - despite the expense and heartache - do the same again.
I really do hope that this little mare has some quality of life and that her new owner does the right thing by her - whatever that may be!! |
www.spanglefish.com/kasanarhythmbeads/ |
Edited by - moatside on 19 May 2010 3:12:55 PM |
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pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 5:30:11 PM
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We all have the mare,s welfare at heart don't we.??
Of course we do.
Bless you all, its because you all care that you get passionate about such issues.
I really hope all improves for the mare, and all associated with her. |
       
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TREASURES AT TEMPLEWOOD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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dinkidoo
Gold Member
United Kingdom
652 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 7:46:44 PM
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Im just posting this as ive found the advert where the girl contacted the dealer from, I really think that something could be done via trading standards - i'll update with pics tomorrow morning when i get back from the yard.
For Sale
reg thoroughbred bay mare
Details
Type: Private Advert
Price: £150
Updated: 14 days ago
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Description
lady is a very sweet natured mare, she has raced in the past, but retired due to knee injury. she has been used as a brood mare for the past couple of years.
she would suit somebody who wants a happy hacker/broodmare. sound and vice free.
Totally unbelievable, tonight after a bit of digging it appears he has another 5 or so horses for sale, wonder what state they are in?! |
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jo78
Silver Member
499 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 8:05:02 PM
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| Oh S**t, thats not good if it is him, where is he based? The poor animals. Does this mare have an age??? |
J.Ellis |
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Tzarina
Platinum Member
England
1997 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 8:30:15 PM
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Well, as we know Carol, there's a lie in there for a start off. Its advertised as a privated advert and yet we know he buys and sells horses for a living.
The whole advert is unbelievable and it would have to be a complete novice who thinks the mare is sound and can be hacked.
If you could find out her racing name, maybe her racing record can be traced.
Words fail me |
Tzarinaarabians@yahoo.com
"The horse is God's gift to mankind."
"The daughter who wont lift a finger in the house is the same child who cycles madly off in the pouring rain to spend all morning mucking out a stable."
"All horses deserve to be loved by at least one little girl during their life" |
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Livery/Rescue V Frustrated (long sorry)
