| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
maromito
Bronze Member
Wales
94 Posts |
 Posted - 19 May 2010 : 08:53:15 AM
|
Unfortunately it is for the very reason quoted above that a daughter stud book so vitally important MISS INFORMATION ,if you read the information provided you will see that the breed is a very old one and not as you quoted created in the 80s.
zapphire I have read your previous post and it does sound [whether its intentional or not ] that you wanted confirmation that your boy was an Hispano Arabe.Regarding the Heinz 57 comment I think Pandora was refering to the other unknown perecentage of pony blood and of course even if you are talking of any type of horse without complete knowledge of its background ie genetic makeup you cannot fix a type or guarantee that type.
Just as Thoughbreds and Arabians and many other breeds NEVER produce coloured offspring when bred true neither do Iberian horses and long may it be so ,before you take exception to that No I dont dislike coloureds I just dont want to see either a PRE or an HA coloured ,I accept thats just my opinion and others may think differently but lets not confuse opinion with facts .
As we are talking about HAs I have to say as an HA breeder that I have found the information Pandora has accumulated over the last 30yrs invaluable and I do agree with her comment about people wishing to jump on the band waggon so to speak regarding the rarity of HAs and the idea that they can make huge profits out of them ,as a breeder who is passionate about saving this breed the last thing we want is these horses priced out of the reach of the ordinary person and for that reason do not need and infact do not want the support people who regard profit as the driving force.
Zapphire I remember seeing your horses when you were in Wales .
|
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
Pandora
Bronze Member
77 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 10:19:46 AM
|
Zappire1 .... to start with, my responses to you have been all along to provide information to the uninitiated and to rectify the miss-information that has for so long flourished regarding the Hispano-Arabe. It was not a direct personal attack on you as I initially have given credance to your plea of wanting to learn about the breed and the possibility that you very genuinely were a novice starting out into horse breeding.
However; you have not just approached me directly now on several occasions seeking validation to present your horses as pure or true breed but have done the same with BAPSH. Both of our organisations have looked into the pedigrees of your horses and told you they are and always will be partbred. You initially approached me indicating complete ignorance of understanding that your mare had unknown pony breeding and at that time I indicated that the she was not acceptable to breed Hispano-Arabe stock.
My comments about breeding strategies were again not specifically aimed at you as I had again taken the benevolent view that you were an innocent novice.
Regarding your quotes from BAPSH: If you were as knowledgeable about the statements you now quote as 'bible' you would also have noted that BAPSH has links promoting my work with the recognition of the Hispano-Arabe and sanctions my very first statements on the blog articles and articles appearing in their magazine in which we recognise that in the past incorrect information for various reasons has abounded; as much due to the fact BAPSH did not set up to represent this breed but to facilitate the needs of the PRE. As the PRE numbers have grown significantly over the years since the organisation first set out the demands upon the committee in dealing with their own breed means it cannot properly divert energy to the Hispano-Arabe hence our co-operation to launch the independent organisation for the UK daughter stud book of the Hispano-Arabe.
Do not venture to lecture me about the Spanish authorities for this breed when I spend hours in translating the official Spanish govt documents on the Ha' (by the way I know exactly the correct abbreviation, but my key board does not have the facility: so smart remarks are useless!) and at this point in time I, not you are in constant communication with UEGHa' and DEFRA regarding this breed so the exact details of what defines the breed are something I as a Director of Hispano-Arabe UK Ltd have to be familiar with to represent all the Hispano-Arabe owners and breeders who genuinely wish to breed approved horses.
Since you have raised the remark about % and it is an issue I have already been publicising and contacting other owners about: the 25-75% bar is not in effect as the priority is breeding for fixed type and as we travel further down the breeding programme by breeding Ha' x Ha' and thus deal with 'pure' Ha' genetic genotype and phenotype the % of Arab is meaningless.
To all those readers here who are genuinely interested in learning about this breed, I do apologise that this thread has had to take such a en-battled stand but if you read through all that is going on there is from all this many salient points that do clarify the direction our organisation is headed and at the end of the day (I speak for all the registered breeders) we aim to produce quality horses that potential buyers can invest in with confidence! For any new serious owners and breeders we will be there to provide advice, guidance and support to give you all the success you aspire to with your Hispano-Arabe.
This post was edited to comply with forum rules - Rui |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Acorn Arabians
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2052 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 10:01:26 PM
|
It is unfortuneate that there will always be people trying to jump on a band wagon. Greed will always drive poor intellect . I applaud you Pandora for your infinite patience and time spent explaining the pitfalls on this thread . Lets hope that things are now crystal clear and that genuinely interested parties will see a case in point here to avoid.
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
zapphire1
Bronze Member
England
54 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 02:54:40 AM
|
regards to you saying i contacted bapsh regards my mare is wrong
ive even checked all my emails tht i have ever sent and not one email
asks about my mare or colt!
maromito your opinion regards to the pre being coloured is of course
your opinion ,(which i will agree with) until it is of equal quality
to the beautiful grey pre, as yet i have not seen any quality pre`s of
other colours that match the grey pre be it black bayo and so on,but
thats my opinion others may say there pre of colour is perfect!!
acorn: regards to the comment
(as people trying to jump on a band wagon so to speak and greed)
is like saying you dont want more hispano-arabe breeders,if that is what
your comment ref too,! (if that is correct) (not as profit)as all breeders knows if you want profit stop breeding!! but for people who take a real interest in the hispano-arabe and i think anyone asking questions are genuinely interested !!!
|
Edited by - zapphire1 on 31 May 2010 12:39:48 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
maromito
Bronze Member
Wales
94 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 2:14:17 PM
|
Zapphire1
seems my comments regarding misinformation have been misread !
I have been a member of BAPSH for many years and have always found them extremely helpful.
When I say misinformation I meant such as you have written at great length.
At no time have I said or implied that only grey PRE are good horses and yes all their colours are beautiful what I did say is in common with both Thoughbreds and Arabians PRE are solid colours and in my opinion long may they remain so.
I dont appreciate my comments being used to try and score points,this is a serious informative thread for people wishing to find out more about HAs[yes I also know how to abbreviate Pure Raza Hispano Arabe but my computer thinks otherwise ] so please unless you have serious questions or genuine points honestly put leave the posting to those who have .
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Rui
AL Admin
6761 Posts |
|
|
MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
|
|
maromito
Bronze Member
Wales
94 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 10:27:43 PM
|
Thankyou MinHe,
To some extent I agree with you ,yes many Arabians carry the sabino gene which can be expressed in ticking as well as solid white.
As the thoughbred and its base breed the Arabian are black,brown,bay chestnut and grey [a masking gene]its to this I was referring,Sabino is a modifying gene that can be expressed in various ways depending on which combination is inherited .
The first registered all white Arabian was foaled in 1989 from two bay parents,this pedigree was highly inbred to the stallions Raktha and Riffal,subsequent breeding from this horse produced five purebred Arabian foals only two of which were normal,the others exhibited neurological disorders and hypersensitivity and died within a few hours.
As to coloured PRE there is a beautiful Stallion who is a Rabicano [basically a bay horse with silver dapples and white in mane and tail ] but he is definately not coloured ,it will be a very interesting colour to add to the HA gene pool. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Pandora
Bronze Member
77 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2010 : 09:45:44 AM
|
Re the beautiful Rabicano:
Hispano-Arabe UK Ltd is all the time checking and compiling short lists of suitable PRE and Arabian stallions to help refer mare owners who are genuinely interested in breeding quality registered Hispano-Arabe stock.
There are various Arabian and Andalusian Horses we have viewed and spoken to the owners about whose horses are suitable for the requirements for our breed programme. While appreciating and respecting that we can not gives names and details on this thread which would violate advertising regulations, anyone seeking breeding guidance of this nature may pm me direct.
Likewise any stallion owners interested in adding their horses to our list of potential husbands please do pm me for further discussion.
|
Edited by - Pandora on 26 May 2010 11:17:14 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2010 : 10:45:00 PM
|
Pandora, ALL pinto genes are modifiers to the basic colour. Arabs and TBs are just as much pintos as are Paints - who could equally be described as 'solid coloured horses with a pattern modifier'!
Rabicano is present in both the Arab and the TB (my purebred mares are respectively a minimal sabino and a minimal rabicano) and produces white ticking in the coat and tailhead, but *not* dapples. Silver dapple is in fact the name of a completely unrelated dilution gene.
The best book on colour genetics is Dr Sponenberg's 'Equine Color Genetics' - rather academic but summarises all the base colours, dilutions and pattern modifiers.
Keren |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Pandora
Bronze Member
77 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2010 : 11:52:22 PM
|
POLITE NOTICE TO MinHe :
I have not made any comments about pinto, patchwork or anything else other than Hispano-Arabe breeding and horses which is what THIS thread is about
Now if you want to introduce a thread of your own all about pinto, colour, Arabs and Thoroughbreds then you are welcome to do so.
This thread is about the Hispano-Arabe and since the priority is about breeding sound healthy animals to expand the breed neither the UK register nor the Spanish are interested in breeding with colour as our priority or objective.
Nb: correction and apologies to Arab horse owners; MinHe you can talk on this thread about Arabs but in the context of their suitability of type etc for breeding Hispano-Arabe progeny and I do not care what colour they are as long as they are a credit to the equine gene pool! |
Edited by - Pandora on 26 May 2010 07:59:14 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
maromito
Bronze Member
Wales
94 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2010 : 08:15:39 AM
|
Pandora,
I agree with you and its only too easy to get side side tracked away from the real purpose of this thread [she said head hung !]so thanks for bringing it back on course.
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2010 : 2:05:26 PM
|
Understanding of equine genetics is important to the breeding of ALL horses.
Keren |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
maromito
Bronze Member
Wales
94 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2010 : 2:16:09 PM
|
Of course it is no one said it wasnt !!
It is now time to LEAVE IT ALONE and to move on back to the reason for this thread Hispano Arabes and as previously said start your own thread about colour if you wish to .
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Pandora
Bronze Member
77 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2010 : 5:03:58 PM
|
It's OK maromito; clearly some parties are jumping in without first reading right through this thread. If they had and had followed to read ALL the blog articles that we keep directing them to http://purerazahispano-arabeuk.blogspot.com/
They would understand that I do not, even with my rust past qualifications in genetics have to worry about spouting off on genetics or depend on amateurs misunderstandings to know what is required in breeding these horses... we already have at our disposal when we require it the more than capable expertise of the brilliant geneticists at the Animal Health Trust.
MinHe: As Directors of Hispano-Arabe UK working with UEGHa in Spain and DEFRA to promote, preserve and expand this breed, we have as with other breed organisations dealing with listed rare breeds established links with various specialists in order to provide the best support and service possible to owners/breeders of Hispano-Arabe stock. |
Edited by - Pandora on 26 May 2010 5:05:18 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2010 : 9:39:32 PM
|
Allowing people to continue to believe outdated information helps no-one - regardless of what breed they are interested in. Likewise, I find your antagonistic and arrogant attitude unnecessary and not likely to win any converts to your breed - perhaps you should consider this.
I consider myself fortunate to have met some extremely nice and welcoming PRE/Hispano-Arabe breeders, otherwise I would be left with a very negative impression of this breed and its followers!
Keren |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2010 : 9:58:34 PM
|
| As a pure layman with regards to this topic, which I have been following purely to increase my knowledge, I would like to echo Minhe's comments, I have found the tone of a number of the postings quite offensive, arrogant and negative, and frankly very off putting. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
maromito
Bronze Member
Wales
94 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2010 : 11:18:27 PM
|
Hi Callisto,
I am so sorry if you have found any of our comments off putting ,there certainly wasn't any intention on our part to upset anyone ,we are extremely concerned that anyone showing a genuine interest in Hispano Arabes is able to access correct information and we will always help in anyway we can .
We started this thread because of our deep concern for the survival of the breed and want to keep it from being side tracked onto other subjects which in view of some of the postings that seems to be the case.
These wonderful talented horses deserve our support and judging by the great response we have had by those serious ALs many of have contacted us directly to offer their help in any way they can and are delighted to have discovered this breed ,starting this thread has been a resounding success,the down side being we have had problems with a small minority of people who for reasons known only to themselves have tried to divert the topic elsewhere .
A big thank you to everyone who has realised and understood what we are trying to achieve
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2010 : 11:49:47 PM
|
| Thank you for for your response, I appreciate your position in that you are passionate about the survival of the breed, however I do feel that a somewhat more diplomatic approach towards those that might not stick to what you feel is the true purpose of the thread would be beneficial. If I had not been very interested in the topic I would not have continued to read it, but I have become increasingly uncomfortable with the nature of some of the posts which as a detached observer have seemed unnecessarily harsh and dictatorial. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
maromito
Bronze Member
Wales
94 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2010 : 10:10:06 AM
|
It seems judging by the sensible feedback we have received from all who have taken the trouble to read the blog and understood what we are trying to achieve both now and in the future that no one other then an extremely small percentage of readers finds the thread in anyway harsh and dictatorial quite the reverse in fact ,its been extremely positive throughout and yes it is a serious thread and that's what we aimed for and in the main have achieved ,but its become quite clear that it will always be a problem or an issue with a small minority of people ,but what the hell viva la difference !
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Topic |
|
Hispano-Arabe
Topic Locked 