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TOOTHLESS
Silver Member
Australia
350 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Feb 2010 : 2:59:08 PM
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I've had a good look at U tube videos of horse presentation at shows and at special events and I'm of the opinion that it involves the art of deception and intimidation to a great degree.
The horse at all times must appear to be animated; he/she must always be kept moving:even when standing up. Body language from these animals doesn't lie, and shows a great degree of fear and intimidation. Their eyes are always glued on the handler,looking for the slightest hint of retribution ,either via the whip or the chain.
This constant animation is in part designed to stop the eye of the judge or observer from settling on any part of the animal that maybe deficient: eg weak loin' short croups,short necks, lack of balance, etc
What was disappointing was the lack of excellent movement among some of the more highly promoted and popular sires. It seems that the head and neck addiction is rampant. I found that lack of ability to use the hind end,ie poor hock action, is indeed inherited,as is good hock action. Elevated knee action does not constitute good anterior leg movement as this is contrary to the economy of movement,and popping up and down does not constitute ground coverage .
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Centaur
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
237 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2010 : 3:08:51 PM
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"the art of deception" - yes I'm afraid so Toothless. In fact having looked at photos of the same horses in both relaxed & posed stances I have come to the conclusion that in hand beeding now selects for horses with conformational imperfections that can be hidden by having the horse in the in hand posed position, for example short, poorly shaped & badly set necks.
So not only do owners pay for the face on the end of the rope, they also pay for the handler to present the horse in such a way that it's deficiencies are masked. That's how the "game" works in the modern show ring. I always try to look at a horse relaxed in order to truely judge its conformation.
Angela |
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TOOTHLESS
Silver Member
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2010 : 3:41:45 PM
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| Yes Angela, For my part, now that Frozen semen from these animals (they do have good points also) is available I will wait for someone else to use them and then if I like the resulting colt/s, then keep it/them in mind for future use, via natural coverage. There is a saying in my native tongue :chi va piano; e' sta sano, va lontano: Ie, those that go slowly; and remain in good health; go a long way. Not that Arabian horses are a great priority: more a distraction .Patience and prudence need to be exercised as I've learnt. Attilio |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Ziadomira
Platinum Member
England
1635 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2010 : 11:26:01 PM
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The manner in which horses were shown was raised at the AHS AGM last year. Following this the following has been arranged.
Agreed by ECAHO that Wessex can trial running two sets of pure bred in hand classes this year at its Summer C Show. One for those who wish to show in the modern fasion and one for those who wish to show their horses as they used to be shown. This is a chance for those who prefer the old style to show in ECAHO qualifers without the modern styel exhibitors in the ring at the same time.
Zia |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 08:58:41 AM
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Am I having a senior moment or was it not decided that all showing had to be without the frozen pose ?
Why the disswmbling? |
    
blue moon |
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TOOTHLESS
Silver Member
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 09:44:11 AM
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Seniors moment- thanks for the reminder Alistair: I just remembered that I had promised myself not to correspond any more. Now I understand why. It's because " the more things change, the more they stay the same."
RIP Equus Arabicus |
Edited by - TOOTHLESS on 05 Feb 2010 10:04:15 AM |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 4:31:24 PM
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Bring back the traditional showing style.....Save our noble Arabian horses, the embarrassment and mockery they have been subjected to with the ridiculous "modern show production" which has distorted beyond comprehension, the real beauty, wonderful limbs, floating action,good toplines and deep girth.
Likewise, lets once again see handlers smartly dressed, befitting to parade the Showrings with their relaxed and happy charges
We can wish can`t we..............
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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angelarab
Platinum Member
Wales
2876 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 4:36:27 PM
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as a relatively newbie to showing can someone tell me what the traditional style is? |
 "Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
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Treasure
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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Linette
Bronze Member
Scotland
103 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 7:42:47 PM
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| The traditional style is simply how most other show horses are shown in hand such as hunters and hacks where manners and straight movement still remain important. Horses walked round quietly, stood up quietly, walked away and trotted back in a straight line to the judge etc. No hype, no twirling, no whip raised in the air. |
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jamie
Bronze Member
Scotland
193 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 8:09:09 PM
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you guys should think about showing in Scotland  it's seems to be a lot more sane and quieter up here  ........ |
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suyents
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1651 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 8:13:41 PM
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| EVERYTHING is quieter up there!!............. |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 8:33:55 PM
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Well....I'll be showing my yearling traditionally. He's going to be my future riding horse, so in-hand showing is primarily for his education.
Although I hope to do well in-hand, I'm certainly not going to whiz him round frantically in order to do so!
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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jamie
Bronze Member
Scotland
193 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 8:39:56 PM
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| too true..!!! come on then all you sasenachs- Royal Highland Show 2010 - be there or be square |
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TOOTHLESS
Silver Member
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 1:49:51 PM
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Couldn't stand the bagpipes: like sitting on a fart cushion that screams except you shove it under your arm and squeeze. They're worse than the didgeridoo. Had to to put a spell check on didgeridoo. Our aborigines no doubt will claim it's the world oldest wind instrument. I guess one of them sat on a hollow limb and passed wind . Ask Rolf Harris, he'll know.
Not making sense; it's old age. Attilio |
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guisburnfeefee
Bronze Member
167 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 3:10:18 PM
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| I would come to the Highland Show - but the very thought of competeing against Wind Wuzard puts me right off - Sorry Emma only kidding - Wiz is fab - but I wouldn't like to compete against him while he's top of his tree!! He's such a dude |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 7:07:20 PM
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Can I mischievously suggest that in-hand horses should be handed over to another handler (some very plucky steward!) during classes so they can be allowed to stand to be judged? After all, we happily put our ridden horses in the hands of someone else to be judged!!
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Roseanne |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
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lottieherts
Silver Member
England
344 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2010 : 4:59:25 PM
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| The 'modern' way of 'posing' and Arabian is not all bad, if done properly (ie without fear). A good judge would see through any posing to attempt to hide conformation faults. The horse is moving much of the time it is judged and it is hard to hide conformation faults in motion (ie - walking) or under close scrutiny. Remember a Judge can (and they do) ask the handler to trot the horse out again in a STRAIGHT LINE to ensure they have been judged correctly. I know one C show (cant remember which one) has a class this year for the horses to be shown in the traditional way, it will be interesting to see how well received it is. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2010 : 8:33:19 PM
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Sorry, lottieherts, I disagree with you that it is hard to hide conformation faults when the horse is moving. It is actually a LOT harder to assess leg faults in particular on a horse that does not keep still, which is the whole reason for keeping them on the fidget!
No-one should have any illusion as to why the modern American showing method originated - it was deliberately conceived as a way to divert attention from the faults of below-par horses that had been bought by non-horse savvy 'investors' (not horse lovers or breeders) as a tax shelter, and who therefore had to produce the results in order to please the tax-man. It has nothing to do with showing the horse to its best advantage. If you are able to get hold of American Arab mags from the 1970s and early 1980s, you will see how the whole sad saga developed - and was decried by the REAL horsemen and horse lovers of the period. Sadly, money talked. 
Keren |
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lottieherts
Silver Member
England
344 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2010 : 9:27:33 PM
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Keren, life would be so dull if we all agreed on everything!
My point is leg faults will affect the horses way of moving. A jittery show horse that wont stand will give his faults away when walking/trotting. Poorly conformed horses do not move correctly.
If a leg fault is only able to be seen when the horse is stood perfectly still, one could argue it is minor that it would not affect the soundness of the horse or his ability to be ridden.
Soft backs, weak loins, thick throatlatches, ewe necks etc etc are things that can be posed out but again, get the horse on the move and it's becomes easier to spot the faults.
I am well versed with the tax benefits of owning an Arabian in America in the 80's and as for the pics...It was often hard to find one where a horse was not hidden behind a rock or standing in long grass....It was quite laughable...Still is, as it still goes on but to a lesser degree.
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Topic |
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The Art of Showing
