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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jun 2010 : 2:07:29 PM
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Thanks,you can email me on gregory_barbara@hotmail.com if that is easier.
To pm someone you just click on their user name and it will bring up a list of options and you just click on the pm (or send message, can't remember what it says)!
Barbara |
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Fayrelands 4ever
Junior Member
England
48 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 06:55:46 AM
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| Hello i also have a horse who has recently been confirmed by a tissue biopsy that he does in fact suffer with sarcoids. Also Dr Knottenbelt had previously confirmed this by just a photo. He has at least 2 or maybe four to be treated. So far I have seen slight improvements with the Global Herbs Sarc-Ex supplement, along with Global Herbs Resolve and Globalvit. Basically this gives the immune and liver a massive boost to help aid the horses immune and his own ability to heal himself. I dont think it's a bad thing to make sure they get all their nutritional requirements. I have also spoken to various horsey people and some also recommend trying laser surgery or some even mentioned aloe vera but I'm not 100% confident this does anything other than sooth skin. My horse is actually starting today also the Liverpool cream which is expensive but should be ok to claim on insurance, but then I'm not sure about that either. He is booked so far for 3 treatments and more to follow. I'll let you know how we get on so that others may learn from my experiences. I have also tried Thuja cream which seemed to work much better on wart type lumps. As I could did use this on my aged arab who had a white round wart like lump on his sheath. This cream seemed to almost disolve the wart and made it flatter and smaller. I think to work on the horse both topically and internally is the only way to tackle this awful condition. Good luck and please do keep us posted to your horses progress. One other tip I'd like to share with everyone is Flowers of Sulpha. Due to the time of hear it is almost impossible to keep the flies off any sarcoid that is red and angry and weepy, if horse keeps catching it. My horse keeps catching his everytime he gets down to roll. So i take the powder and apply it directly like wound powder to the saw lump and the powder gets absorbed and is healing and also a great fly repellant it is one of the main ingredients in the Summer Fly cream which some other horsey people might have heard of as a cream used for udders to keep flies off sheep i think it's originail use was But you can buy the flowers of sulpha on ebay it is yellow and also heals many other minor skin ailments and deterrs lice and has many other useful qualitities - well worth an investigation. Take my word for it, it has helped dry up the sarcoid and the flies just dont ever go near it. Hope this all helps you to aid recovery for your horses who suffer this terribly condition. I look forward to reading many more experiences from other horse owners. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 1:51:19 PM
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| Lily is currently being treated with the Liverpool Cream (just completed a week of applications) and the claim is going into the insurers at the moment. As far as my vet is concerned there will be no problem claiming for this treatment, but she is concerned that it will become an exclusion on the policy once it comes up for renewal in August. Two of Lily's sarcoids appear to have cleared up in between diagnosis and the start of this round of treatment (unusual according to Dr Knottenbelt), so they were not treated, but we are keeping an eye on them and updating Dr K with photos so that any changes are picked up. Lily has been very good about the treatment and so far we have managed to keep the flies off the treated areas. Fingers crossed that these are treated successfully and she does not develop any more, but obviously I shall always have to remain vigilant. Good luck with your boy and his treatment Sophia. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Fayrelands 4ever
Junior Member
England
48 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 2:50:58 PM
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| I have heard about this exclusion, let's just hope that this liverpool cream and the Sarcoid-ex supplement do manage to keep them away and for as long as possible. I did find out one interesting fact today in relation to my horses situation. The vet came out and applied this thick ointment to the two main areas, then you have to make sure they are not rubbed off for at least 1/2 hr. That's what i was told is a long enough time for it to be absorbed. My horse also didnt fuss much on the first application but I fear he may on others as they cream is destroying the cells pretty much like chemotherapy for human cancer suffers. Anyway he asked me if my horse been vaccinated yet, to which I replied "just recently". His theory is that some yougsters if not yet vaccinated dont show improvements until after their body has been challenged or had the immune system started up by the vaccine, that's what the vaccine does - charge up the immune, kicks it in. Hope you see what i mean by that? It's just a waiting game now. I'm praying that this cream and the good food and keeping him up to date with his vaccines will make sure his immune stays active enough to discourage anything like this again in the future. He also mentioned that a sarcoid can appear at the site of a wound especially if flies are a bother to the wound as they flies can spread the virus. I make sure also that my horse wears a fly rug always. There is some thought that flies can actually transmit, but i'm not sure how conclusive this evidence is. Also that it is related to a herpes virus and the pappilloma wart type and he even mentioned a bovine disease, sorry i cannot remember or spell the names correctly. I'm afraid vet terminology goes over my head pretty much. I'm sure there must be someone else who reads this that can explain my findings better than i can? So to make sure she doesnt development anymore they say that sarcoids are spread over the summer due to flies and grow over winter. So best get her fly rugged up that way the pesky flies cannot bother her and put a mask on her face also. My horse looks like a medieval knights mount with all his masks and fly covers on. He did also mention that my old boy would be safe from catching it due to his age and his immunity, which was very comforting to hear. Although dont take my word or others as i have known some very good vets get it wrong sometimes, use your own judgement half the time you know you're right. Good luck and do keep me posted. Apparently it is not inherited which is also a relief if you intended to breed. Poor vet I really did grill him today. All the best |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 3:43:19 PM
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Don't worry Lily is fully swathed in Fly rugs, fly masks, and fly repellent and if the flies are very bad then she is stabled through the heat of the day when they are at their worst.
She has had 3 courses of treatment now (different sarcoids), and her only reaction to the vet applying the cream is slight irritation as though a fly is tickling her. The vet warned me to be very careful not to touch the sarcoids once the Liverpool cream is applied - if you are putting vaseline around them as a protective barrier cream then wear disposable gloves, and mark the vaseline as for use on your horse for sarcoids only (in case you accidentally transfer the Liverpool cream into the vaseline), as obviously it will do nasty things to your skin. As the process goes on the sarcoids can weep, and this will contain the Liverpool cream - hence the need to protect the surrounding skin with vaseline.
Interesting about the vaccination thing - Lily's had been allowed to expire, so we had to start again when I bought her - first sarcoid was discoved just as the initial course of injections was completed. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 19 Jul 2010 3:47:17 PM |
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Fayrelands 4ever
Junior Member
England
48 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2010 : 6:38:04 PM
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| Thanks for the insight on the vaseline, i didnt know and wasnt told to do that. Each vet they all say different things, but that information sounds very plausible. I'll do just that but make sure that i do wear gloves and keep a tub just for this job. Thanks that info was very useful indeed. My horse's lump doesnt look angry or red, like i thought it would, it just looks black and not angry. Maybe it will start to look more aggressive after more applications. Although there are at least 6 different types of sarcoids so maybe some react more than others, who knows? My poor boy has his second dose of ointment tomorrow. I'll keep you posted. But the Flowers of Sulpha is a great cream also for conditions such as Summer Mud Fever, yeah summer mud fever how ironic is that. It usually shows up on the horses legs which have socks due to the lack of pigment. Although some people at our yard think it is also due to low grade ragwort which can also show up like this and is a reaction to the light on the skin. I apply the flowers of sulpha to these conditions and they help alot and are not excessive on your bank balance, which is always good to know as this treatment our horses is having is costing us a fortune. I still dont even know if my insurance will help me as I've only just got this horse and they are making accusations that i bought him with this condition therefore i'm not covered. Good old insurance companies if there's a way to get out of it they will. Also like you mentioned previously after my year is up then this condition will be excluded and that also means i will never get any help any if they should reoccur. Guess we must be quite unlucky to have this on such young horses. I hope and pray that this treatment will work for us both and they dont ever have a repeat of this years later, for our bank balance's sake. I've been told that you can expect to pay as much as £400 to £800 for this treatment, as it has to be applied every 72hrs and by a vet only. My vet charges £40 to come out and then £30 to just look at my horse let alone anything else on top of that. I'm dreading the end bill. Did you see the size of the tub, it's tiny and I was told that the tub costs around £75. I'll wait to see just how much they charge me when i get my first invoice. Not forgetting i had a biopsy i dread to think how much they charge me for that also. Just hope my insurers help out. Are your insurers helping you out?? Take care and lots of luck with the treatment. |
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Fayrelands 4ever
Junior Member
England
48 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 2:44:35 PM
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| Hello, could someone please help me with the Liverpool cream. My horse has now had two applications of this cream and so far he hasnt had any reaction whatsoever on the skin, no inflammation no redness, it has just turned the top of the lump black. Is this normal? I have my suspescions that the cream which my vet is using is out of date. Does this cream go out of date?? Does anyone know?? Also he is using what looks like an old tub and I've got the dregs at the bottom of the tub, I surely hope he's not thinking of charging me for a whole tub. I think that he might. My trust has totally gone with this vet as also another lady at the same yard got ripped off as they charge on the bill for stuck which you havent had. What kind of reaction would you expect to see from this cream? I thought it would make the surrounding skin swollen and inflammed it doesnt appear to have done anything at all, but emptied my bank balance. Can anyone help me by telling me their experiences of using this cream?? Thanks |
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Emmo
Bronze Member
Wales
132 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 5:55:13 PM
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Hi all
Yes insurers will exclude. My boy had his surgically removed in 2003 after an application of Liverpool cream caused it to grow to the size of a tennis ball within 2 weeks, and become bleeding and ulcerated and was swinging like a pendulum from his stomach. The operation was around £600. AApparentlythey charge by the minute when a horse is under aanesthetic! He still has numerous others that have never changed since they first appeared and i am now too scared to touch them.
My advice from my experience would be to leave well alone unless they are already growing or situated in a problem area.
I am fully aware that there others could flare up at any minute and he is kept well away from flies as i am convinced that these horrible creatures are what caused it in the first place.
Emma x |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 8:20:04 PM
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The Liverpool Cream does take time to work, after a week of applications every 2 days (completed last Friday) Lily's are swollen, however according to my vet it takes a full month for the process to work through, so I would expect them to possibly swell further in time to come. I can only report my experience, but my vet sent photos to Dr K, and he prescribed cream at 3 different strengths which I paid for and am expecting to be repaid on my vet's fees insurance. As Lily passed a 5 stage vetting when I bought her with no sarcoids reported, I am covered for my claim. however after these current sarcoids are dealt with then I would expect them to exclude any new ones. The different creams were applied to the different sarcoids as per Dr K's instructions. We are now waiting for it to do its work, and in a month my vet will send photos back to Dr K for his opinion/instructions on what, if anything, to do next. The cream has to be kept refrigerated at the vet's surgery, it costs 75 pounds for each very small pot. I would be surprised if your vet is using the dregs of someone else's cream, but if you think that this is possibly the case then ask for proof that your vet obtained the cream from Dr K specifically for your boy's case.
Good luck with your treatment. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 22 Jul 2010 8:22:01 PM |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 10:53:58 PM
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I thought that each case was prescribed seperately... Would definately check this out if I were you.
Especially after watching that awful vet programme this evening, whilst I have no problems of trust with our vets, who often dont charge for call outs if you need them regularly, I would be very very wary with practices such as medivet... |
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Fleas
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
142 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2010 : 10:19:40 PM
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I dont think it is unusual for the sarcoids to clear on their own - my old geldings first one appeared on his ear, it was one of the nasty ones, then one day it burst and healed... unfortunately he was one of those bizarre cases and in 6 months ended up with hundreds, all the angry 'angleberry type' as they were known back then. Some of the burst ones did heal but there were so many, if you looked at the back of him and moved his tail you could see what looked like a bag of peas popping out running from his bottom right down to his sheath and tht was just one area 
i was hoping to never have to see the blighters again but one of my geldings now has a few of them tucked in his front legs and a possible one where the girth will go (hes only 3) so I continue to read and learn more about them all the time. |
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Fayrelands 4ever
Junior Member
England
48 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2010 : 07:51:14 AM
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| Hello and thank you again to everyone for sharing with us your experiences. My horse's treatment is still continuing with the Liverpool cream but there have been other complications with his treatment which i unfortunately cannot presently go into any detail. But i will of course tell everyone how he is progressing and in my opinion which methods have worked best for him. Has anyone on this thread ever heard of Newmarket cream or Bloodroot ointment? It is a homeopathic cream and comes from a plant and I think works in similar ways to the Liverpool cream but I dont think it's so vet reliant. Meaning I think you can apply it yourself. But I'm not 100% sure so I myself would like to find out has anybody had any experience with using this cream and what are it's successes if any?? |
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 1:51:01 PM
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| Would it be possible for any of you who have horses with sarcoids to post pictures of them and the treatment they have received/tried, as after reading up on them it seems that the different types of sarcoids need different treatments, maybe this is why some treatments are working on some horses and not on others, the worrying thing is that if you try and treat the sarcoid incorrectly then it can promote the growth rather rapidly instead of getting rid of it, my filly who is 4 has had a small lump about the size of a pea on her belly, in the last 2 weeks it has grown outwards to about 1/4" in length and now has broken out at the top so am pretty sure that it is a sarcoid |
Berkshire
   
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 4:29:57 PM
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If the growth is on a stalk tying it off will stop the blood supply and it will just drop off. My mare had one just in front of her teats and it grew to the size of a grapefruit really quickly. I tied the sta;k off and it fell off after a few weeks and has never returned; that was about 4 years ago.
Barbara |
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 6:09:19 PM
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| Thanks Barbara, Sounds about the same sort of place as my fillys, I'm worried about tying it off as my friends horse had his tied off (it wasn't a stalk more like a marble under the skin) and now he must have about 25/30 of them, so tying his off has obviously excelerated the growths, this is why I was asking about the different types of treatment for the different types of sarcoid, my old boy who is 26 had 2 angleberry ones removed by surgery when he was 4 and they have never returned |
Berkshire
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 6:29:31 PM
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| The only other experience I have had of a sarcoid was one like a berry with a slight stalk, we tied it off with a horsetail hair and put honey on it, (we were told to do this by an old horseman, and this was over 30 years ago), it came off and the horse never had any more. I do think different types respond to different treatments. Lily's current ones are flat with a sort of granular surface, about the size of a 5p. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Fayrelands 4ever
Junior Member
England
48 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 08:24:26 AM
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| Just wanted to update everyone on my present young horses condition. We had had the treatment with the liverpool cream, although there is still some descrepancy as to the strength of the cream as it was not made up by the Prof Knottenbelt. But on the two areas where it has been applied they are now black and flat and, I think, soon to drop off. However, my new littly poor horsy has two other suspecious looking raised spots or tags on either side of his cheeks. When i pointed this out to the vet he was reluctant to do anything about it as they were so small. I'm concerned that these are not being treated as in my opinion surely they must contain the virus or germ. That's just my opinion, I would have liked to have seen the vet treat these as well. But like i said they were reluctant, but then maybe they are just waiting for a repeat call out so as they can drag out the treatment and get maximum money out of the poor long suffering owners who will do anything to make their horses healthier. But in saying all of that, the vet is due out again for his second shot of injections and I will be really putting him under the spot light this time and will not accept no as an answer. I'll keep you all posted. I hope that your horses are all well also. Reports on the Global Herbs, not worked as well as i would have liked. It's a lot of money and to be honest i personally havent seen much if any improvment. So i think I'll give this a miss, but might start applying the Thuja ointment on the face lumps. Do let me know if you have any more ideas. I hope Calisto's horse Lily is responding well after treatment. Sorry for the lateness replying but I've been so busy these days. |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2010 : 05:01:19 AM
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Have just had to send photo's of Ali warts up to Liverpool, Dr D recommends the Liverpool cream, he said he wasnt 100% that they are sarcoids, but as they have changed quickly, he is loathe to leave.
Have been feeding global herbs...think will give a miss now.
Must dig out vaccs dates as have a feeling that these co-incide...
No matter what I use Ali is always covered in flies, he is in during the day on vet recommendation... |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2010 : 08:02:38 AM
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| Well I'm still waiting for Dr K's verdict on the latest set of photos of Lily's sarcoids (post treatment). Hopefully it's good news, as it seems to have been dragging on for a very long time now. The flies have been a complete nightmare this year. Lily has been kept in during the day when the flies were at their worst, and fully wrapped up in her fly rug when she is out, plus covered in fly repellent... Haven't found any new sarcoids which is a plus. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 26 Sep 2010 08:03:46 AM |
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Fayrelands 4ever
Junior Member
England
48 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2010 : 7:57:44 PM
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| Sorry everyone not been on site for a very long time. Just been megga busy. My horses sarcoids update is as follows. Out of the two which were treated. He does infact have two which look suspecious on either side of his cheeks. One seems to be not really doing much and is only pimple size. The other feels like a skin tag which we can get when we are very old, like me. My vet has recently looked at them and said that they might be warts or could be anything as it is just too early to tell. I'd wish he's do something about it as i only have insurance cover for this flippin things for one year, as we all know my insurance cover afterthan will be void. Anyway, getting back to the two which were treated with the Liverpool cream. One which was the larger one, still has a black dry flat cap on. While the other has dropped off. But what's left underneath, is not what i expected. It is still a prominant lump and in my view still needs to be treated again. The vet was shown this only last week and didnt seem to be bothered much. I reminded him that i would like treatment to start soon and not near my renewal time. What are they waiting for, honestly i just dont understand their logic sometimes. To me this still needs cream. As this was one area which the vet (in my opinion) didnt apply enough cream. Also i still have a big gap of weather my cream was actually of strong enough quality. As the cream was most definitely not made up for me horse. Weird or what. Vet's are a law on to themselves. But i'm trying to stay optomistic. I have to say also that i didnt really see much if any improvement with at least 3 to 4 tubs of the Global herbs sarcex supplement. I did however see some improvement when i was applying the Thuja cream. So just depends. Also one lady mentioned uptodate injections. I think that this helps with a suppressed immune, so it is always worthwhile making sure your horses are fully and properly vaccinated. I'm now looking at putting him on an immune boost, as i still think this could help him, well it's my belief and i have to be feeling like i'm doing as much as i can to help him. Even though some might tell you it's all a waste of money. Calisto, love to see some pictures of your horses and I'll show you mine. Although I havent got a clue how to put them on here. Might be good if we can show others pictures as this will help them to decide what it is their horses have. I think pictures are always good. This is only in my opinion but i would recommend the liverpool cream, as it really has kicked the butt of the condition. I just think that it is my vet's which are letting me down presently. Also it is expensive, my vets charged me £70 just to come out and apply the cream. The total bill with a biopsy was over £750. Fancy having to find that on top of a few thousand for a supposedly healthy yearling. You can just imagine my shock finding this so soon after the sale. |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2010 : 9:24:19 PM
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Reading your feedback with interest.... Callisto, how long has the treatment been going on?
Have been away since saturday, tonight looks at Ali warts and they seem to be a bit bigger and much more lumpy...
Will take more photos to forward to my vet. Oh joy!
Would be very interested to see pic's |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 07:01:04 AM
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| Hi Debs, we found the first one on Lily in December, then more in May, haven't found any new ones since then, fingers crossed. As I said, I am currently waiting for a response from Liverpool with regard to the latest round of photos of the sarcoids post treatment (which was July). I will try and post photos of Lily's sarcoid, but they were a round area of hairless scaly skin about the size of a penny, they were not raised/lumpy. It takes a long time because of the intervals between diagnosis, feedback from Liverpool, order the cream, apply the cream, wait 4-6 weeks, take photos, wait for feedback from Liverpool...I am very lucky in that none of Lily's have been in a place that interferes with riding her and she has been very good about the whole process. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 29 Sep 2010 07:03:04 AM |
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Fayrelands 4ever
Junior Member
England
48 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 7:58:51 PM
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Thought you might like a read of this article i found. http://www.madmule.co.uk/section348292.html
The vet came out again today and took a look at my horses sarcoids. They havent gone and they are coming back, in original places and now inside of his thighs. But in defence of Derek's cream (Liverpool Cream) they didnt consult him and they didnt use new or a strong enough strength of cream, in my opinion. So i am very upset with my vets, but i'll have to get over it, my main concern is to get my little young yearling boy well. My vets also informed me that i am not to use this horse as a stud horse and horses which have suffered sarcoids should in his opinion not be used for breeding purposes. As he thinks that some horses are or can be predisposed to it and those that are should not be bred from. Also I'm now left with a horse which nobody will want to buy or get covered for with regards to insurance. Also, after my year of insurance is up, i will not ever be able to get insurance help with regards to paying for any future recurrences, as i'm sure there will be some. Just hope that the pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow, as I'm sure going to need it. My only concern and worry is, if i cannot afford to keep up with the treatments and the horse's quality of life is suffering then the future for my horse looks bleak. My vets are speaking of him having radiation therapy or cryo. All of which are extremely costly and i just dont have the money. I'm desperate for some solutions or glimmer of hope. I seriously regret ever buying this horse. I'll try to stay optomistic, but it is very hard to do. When all the evidence keeps on stacking up against you.
Has anyone on this thread ever heard of Blood root and used it? From what I've read it's very good. But would like to hear some of your views. Cheers |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 3:07:36 PM
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Ali has just finished his course of Liverpool cream. They have gone very crusty and the 2 larger ones have shrunk a lot....Hope this will continue!
Vet to come back in Jan...
My vet said they are treating more and more every year.Learnt a few bits of info..... you lot may know, but I didn't....
Once a horse has a sarcoid they probably will get more....oh joy! (suspected that bit,,,,)
20 years ago 10% of horses had them with an average of 3 lesions, now it is 25% with av. of 16 lesions.
Arabs susceptable.
Lipizzana.... ooh god, how do you spell that???? DO NOT get them, BUT if x'd with another breed WILL get them.
Horses kept with cattle more susceptable.... they not sure why...maybe flies???
So now need to start thinking about how to keep flies off, have fed garlic...no difference. Fly rug pretty useless, was a cheap one so maybe invest in a better one.
Anyone fed the Global herbs supplement??? |
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Grey Girl
Platinum Member
England
1554 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2011 : 5:56:18 PM
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I have recently been to a lecture on sarcoids by the utterly wonderful and charismatic Prof Knottenbelt, who is the most amazing person! I knew zilch about sarcoids when I went, and he gave so much information in an easy-to-digest way. One thing that he really did drum in though: you have to decide whether you are going to keep going or not start anything at all. I reckon he would be very sympathetic to cries of help though. Ask for a referral - I got the impression that he can diagnose a lot by looking at photographs.
He also said that if your horse has sarcoids you must be VERY careful if your horse gets a cut etc anywhere else on their body as a sarcoid may then grow there - so it's keep any cut very clean and covered and don't touch it with a hand that's been near your horse's sarcoid.
Good luck, and try and speak to Prof K if possible. He's lovely (do you get the impression that I am a fan?!) |
 Said the little eohippus, "I´m going to be a HORSE"  |
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Sarcoid
