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sarifah
Junior Member
30 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 11:46:30 AM
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Does anyone have experienece with giving ACP tablets to horses - how much etc - I only know it from dogs so any info would be appreciated
Thanks
Marianne
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 2:04:03 PM
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Funny thing, ACP and horses. Firstly you can't safely give it to stallions, can have disasterous consequences.
My filly had five talets to no effect, she was then given another 5 and we might as well have given her smarties. However, my friend has a large heavy cob, weighs a lot more than my filly, he was given 3 and was so spaced out he could hardly walk. if your horses is in a tizz before you give them that to can tend to lessen their effect although my filly wasn't.
Barbara |
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 2:10:56 PM
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I used to give my mare 1 1/2 tablets every 4 hours when she had laminitis and it made her slighty drousy, she was 14.1hh
I would check with your vet for the amount you should give if you want to sedate properly or in my case (Lamintis) just to take the edge of.
Janet |
     
Sunny Cheshire |
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precious
Platinum Member
England
2253 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 2:18:42 PM
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what do you want to use them for and what level of sedation do you want.
My mare had a health check before they would allow me to give her any. |
     
Gemma Thompson
Birmingham West Midlands
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sarifah
Junior Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 2:37:16 PM
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| We have one mare who is EXTREMELY difficult to load and also very suspicious of vets. We have been trying to load her to come to the new home - all other horses are already here- for the last two weeks. I will not bore you with details but it was an absolute nightmare, had a very good professional horse transporter, he came twice but thean refused to ever load her again. We tried in a trailer, in a small (2 horse bo0 box, a slightly bigger one (3 horses) and a huge one (when we loaded all the others). We used Sedalin, we tried it without, the vet came out to sedate her but got nearly killed and we ended up with an unconscious horse, as she threw herself violently backwards and knocked herself out, vet than obviously refused to sedate her. Came back a couple of days later and just the sight of the vet cause a total panic. We really have to move her as we cannot keep driving forwards and backwars twice a day (morse than 70 miles for one return trip) - she is getting really upset now as she is on her own and misses the others. Then this morning I was giving one of our dogs some medication when I saw the ACP tablets, just thought it might be an idea and somebody had any experiences. Phnoned vet and they said they never use it on horses now. So er are stuck again. Looks like a very long walk. |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 3:48:05 PM
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Hi,
A few questions 
In what way is she difficult to load?
Has she ever travelled before?
If so what does she travel like?
How old is she and how big?
As she is now missing her friends could you not take one back with you and without unloading the other horse try again?
I do know that 'so calm' paste works to knock the edge off but I don't see how that or sedation will get her on the horsebox if she is extremely difficult to load? ACP is a bit hit and miss to be honest, many moons ago I had a new forest foal colt that I rescued, he deperately needed the farrier, we gave the little bugger 12 tablets in the end and he still had a fit and threw himself on the floor when the farrier went to pick up his foot!
If it were me and she was mind, going on the assumption she has travelled fine once on the lorry, I would, after trying all other options get another vet out to sedate her, obviously warning them that she can be violent when approached to jab her, so she can still walk, stand and be 'manouvered' on to the lorry.
Another thought, you could always go early morning with a lorry and sit it out at the bottom of the ramp with her and a bucket of feed, all day if necessary, until she gives it up and goes on?
Or if you have a couple of friends who know horses and know what they are doing, lunge lines crossed behind works well BUT you must know how to do this or it can go wrong but safer than having two people linking hands behind her.
Failing that you have a 35 mile walk which working out at about 20 mins per mile will take you nearly 12 hours!
The above are obviously only ideas, not knowing exactly how difficult she is 
Mandy |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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precious
Platinum Member
England
2253 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 3:54:29 PM
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My vet gave me acp tablets although they are only meant to give out the paste now.
Its worth a go i would give her only a couple about 3 (as my mare is dropped sleepy after 3) and try loading her, then keep trying another day and change doseage appropiatly she might get used to going on then.
But you do need to double check dosage with a horse vet and dont just go off what any of us say as it does lower there heart rate.
Remember you need to really give her them a hour or so before stress. so dont let her see a lorry etc or anything that can help her fight them.
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Gemma Thompson
Birmingham West Midlands
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 4:42:58 PM
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Hi I used use ACP to load my mare the last time I used them was about two years ago, I wanted to travel her from High Beech near Epping to Lambourne End both essex about a twenty minute journey in a car so not far. I gave her fifteen she was 15.1 and 21 at the time, it was the last time I ever tried to load her it took us 3 hours to get her on I only took her there for a holiday, when I was ready to bring her back.
I gave her fifteen Acp again and I tried for 6 hours. and gave up she is the most difficult horse I have ever tried to load, I rode her back to the yard two days later and it took me 3 1/2 hours so it was the quicker option. I did load her a few times with the same amount some years before which worked, I wouldn't reccomend you use this much first off I knew she could take that many, as she needed them for clipping so I had used them over a period of years and any less just didnt have any effect, I also have known much bigger horses to have one or two tablets and be so knocked out.
I know they work better on an empty stomach and if the horse is calm, I never could work it out as when on the few occasions I got her on she travelled fine, sadly she is not with me I lost he to colic last October bless her she was one stubborn mare though, I would suggest you give her a few and see if it has an effect it can take about an hour and on the day limit her food before you load so she is hungry and tempt her with food, Angel mentioned bringing a friend back that sounds like a good idea, I know how frustrating it is I tried for years its not easy, hope you get her there. |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 4:57:05 PM
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Another silly question 
What area is the horse kept at?
Mandy |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 5:25:19 PM
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Have you tried a blindfold and two people with an easy loader - works well usually
If she is tabled you could back the transport to the stable door and then put straw bales on each side of the ramp - then just wait
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sarifah
Junior Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 7:09:38 PM
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Thanks for all your replys. Only just came back from feeding her etc, so will read through it again in peace. We will try again tomorrow and I will take all your advise in account. Hopefully she will be ok - the worst thing is her rearing up and throwing her backwards and over, she even jumped a barrier before. Apart from loading and vet she is such an easy mare, is ridden at the moment be a 7 year old without any problems.
To answer some of the quewstions she is a 11 year old, 14.2 hd mare and yes she travelled before and as soon as she is in the box/trailer she is absolutely fine, travels lovely, no sweating, eating her hay etc. It is is just the loading. That is when she rather kills herself then go in. Oh yes and we are located in Shropshire.
Thanks again for all the help.
Marianne |
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vanishtrik
Bronze Member
England
136 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 07:46:38 AM
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| i thought sedaline is ACP just in past form ????????? |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 09:33:36 AM
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Good luck Marianne, let us know how you got on!
I only asked where you were because if you were nearer I would have come to help. Never mind I am sure it will all go well today
Mandy |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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alethea
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1526 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 10:14:53 AM
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I find sedaline gel is much more effective than the acp tablets. On some horses acp tablets dont seem to have any effect but in my experience the sedaline gel works well everytime.
If you need horse transport then pm me as i know someone excellent who specialises in difficult loaders
Alethea
Aristotle Arabians
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jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 10:20:24 AM
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Hi Marianne,
Sounds to me like she's 100% "at it". She's not afraid and is taking full advantage of the situation.
Can you get somebody else to come along and load her for you (no offence but she knows she can play up with you, and will be picking up on involuntary stress/exasperation vibes from you).
Make sure your helper is very confident, and will take no nonsense. Have a schooling whip in one hand ready to tap her under her chest to bring her back down immediately when she rears.
She'll soon learn it's much more pleasant to load instantly rather than muck around for hours on end getting in a tiz!
HTH, Jill |
    
Borders, Scotland |
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Eeyore
Gold Member
1181 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 11:32:47 AM
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If I were you I would get a Monty Roberts 'Recommended Associate' out to help retrain your mare to load. It would probably only take 1 session with them and a bit of follow up practice yourself and she would be loading happily. No need for stress for you or your horse!
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Heléna
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
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Nichole Waller
Gold Member
England
1168 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 12:11:52 PM
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I agree with the Monty Roberts person.
I took my mare to one of his demonstrations at Towerlands a few years ago as 'a horse that wouldn't load'.
She would (eventually) load on a trailer, but never on a lorry. There have been quite a few occasions when a lorry was all that was available (sharing with friends etc) and i could never get her on. She just reared and reared and eventually galloped off with me hanging on the end of the rope...
Kelly Marks worked with her at the demonstration. They used the Monty Roberts headcollar (dually) and did about 10 minutes of ground work. Leading her around, asking her to back up and stand etc. She didn't like it and reared a few times with Kelly but soon learnt that the rearing hurt as the halter tightened across her nose. Then Kelly asked her to load and the first time she said no and reared (which she was told off for), then she just walked on. I think once they realise that there is no other option they just give in and get on with it.
They have to learn this for themselves though. It's no good you or your friends using whips or lunge lines as the horse then associates you with the problem. They need to learn that when they rear it hurts, when the come down and follow you it doesn't hurt. When they stop and you keep walking it hurts, eventually they learn that if they just follow you wherever you go it doesn't hurt.
Kelly loaded my mare a few times on and off with no problems, then asked me to do it. She just followed me straight up the ramp. I bought one of the halters and I've never had a problem since...
I think a 'recommended associate' is definitely what you need. Good Luck and let us know how you get on |
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honey
Platinum Member
N. Ireland
2634 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 12:14:24 PM
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umm i have used sedalin sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't and found best to give a few hours before you need it to work. have you tried using two people with led ropes one at each corner to the front of the box and then someone behind it gives far more control if they rear up, we have had horses that lie down on the tail gate and everything, and nothing worse than a bad loader. we had a problem loading all ours and it was the floor in the horse box putting them off it was slippy we put mats down and gave them a few journeys and there loading 100% now. good luck and keep us updated on how they do
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 1:17:34 PM
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| It's no good you or your friends using whips or lunge lines as the horse then associates you with the problem.
Sorry Nicole but that isn't true in my experience (nearly 30 yrs )
I have used lunge lines crossed behind a horse to load it on numerous occassions and it does work! I have also found that more often than not, after doing it a couple of times, the horse only has to see the lunge lines and goes on the lorry no problems.
I do however agree with your comment on using whips, of any kind. This in my experience DOES NOT WORK, it only succeeds in making matters worse, as does chasing and prodding with yard brooms, waving bags behind them and screaming/shouting/waving arms!
I have watched in amazement over the years, people at showgrounds trying to load horses using the above! The other thing they all had in common was looking the horse in the eye and trying to drag it up the ramp which was never going to work in a million years!
All it took to get these horses on the lorries was to get rid of all the on-lookers and so-called horse expert helpers, some food or grass or carrots and someone who knew what they were doing. Someone who would face up the ramp without staring at their horse and also not hang on to the leadrope for dear life if the horse decided to pull back
The other key thing is a bit of patience....Mine all load great but occassionaly one may stop at the bottom of the ramp to sniff it, all I do is wait a few minutes, still looking forward,(no shouting or shanking)then ask them to walk on, that's if they haven't already decided that it is in fact safe and gone on the lorry in front of me
At the end of the day, different methods suit different horses and it is a case for finding which one suits your horse.
Hope you had success today Marianne, let us know how you got on and what method you finally used.
Mandy
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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sarifah
Junior Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 1:36:08 PM
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Well, she is home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do not know where to start, no matter what I will look like a total idiot. I am well into my 70s but you never stop learning and this Arabs never stop to amaze you. Anyhow, I left at 7 0,clock in the morning and went to friends I stayed with before the move in Wales and they came with me. When they saw what state I was in they wouldn't even let me go near my house but I was to stay behind and babysit there dogs. I was not to sure and so nervous but it was less then an hour later that the phone rangand I nearly had a heart attack imagining the worst. But ... wait for that ... I was told that she is on board and I should get into my horse, drive home and they will meet me there. I could not believe it, apparently, Princess was very glad to see them and was decided not to stay behind alone and just walked in. I feel such an idiot, sorry about wasting all of your time but I NEVER imagined that. She travelled lovely, eating all her hay, and you should have seen how happy she was when she finally arrived here and saw all her friends again. It was quite moving. I really do notknow what happened, it was not only me who tried before but lots of people, including a very experienced horse transporter. I can only imagine that she was fed up with being on her own.
Thanks again for all your advise
A very happy but also confused and humble
Marianne |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 2:16:06 PM
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Don't blame yourself too much - arabs love to make an idiot of you. We have a gelding who has always been a problem to load to leave home. This is despite never looking at him on the ramp, hours of practising walking him through the trailer, crossed lunge reins (he just shoots straight backwards at the first sign of them and you can't even get him to approach the ramp), we always use a Monty Roberts be nice halter (after he decided rearing was a good idea - at least we put a stop to that), we have never tried to scare him up the ramp, and although it is difficult we have always resisted losing our tempers with him. We habitually allow a good hour and a half to get him on. He travels absolutely fine.
The same horse will load himself (literally, he has tried to get up the ramp while still tied to the side with his haynet) to come home  But at least we don't have the same performance at the end of the day as well
He is 18 now, and we just have to live with it. I would also say it appears to be in his blood (the stubborness), we have had 4 of Ringing Gold's descendents and they have all been exactly the same - if they decide they are not doing something, you have to have the patience of a saint to persuade them otherwise. None of our other arabs have been so bloody minded!
So pleased for you that you have got her home safely without the need for drugs or a very long walk |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 18 Nov 2009 2:19:17 PM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 2:34:11 PM
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That's GREAT NEWS Marianne!!
And don't you dare say you wasted our time, thats what us lot are here for, to try and help each other if we can
So pleased for you that she is home, safe and sound. Your mare sounds like my mare (also called Princess), she is Princess by name and Princess by nature, she wouldn't have liked being on her own too long either which may be why your girl decided to load so easily
Mandy xx
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 2:48:09 PM
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So glad you got her on, my mare would do exactly the same lunge whips or lunge lines never worked she would rear and kick out, agree with you Callisto it definitely is a stubborn streak and she had it, so glad you didn't have to ride her home like I did. |
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garnet
Platinum Member
2382 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 3:16:26 PM
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| Our Irish Cob was on 16 a day when on box rest with laminitis to stop him kicking his house to pieces. |
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jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 3:33:01 PM
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That's great news Marianne!
BTW, using a schooling whip to tap a rearing horse under the chest/belly area is very effective! This is the most vunerable area for a horse and they immediately come back down. I'm not suggesting anyone whacks the living daylights out of the horse...just a mere tap and they come back down. Works a treat when riding a rearer too!
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Borders, Scotland |
Edited by - jillandlomond on 18 Nov 2009 6:08:18 PM |
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ACP
