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Holly
Gold Member
England
529 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 8:59:36 PM
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Im interested in changing to a treeless saddle for our general hacking/long distance. Ive heard loads of great reviews on them but wondering if they actually are more comfortable for both horse and rider and if so what is the best make to go for?
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 11:42:46 PM
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| I tried one but found that there was too much saddle between me and the horse. They are supposed to allow freedom around the shoulder area. If you live in a hilly area be sure to get one with knee rolls as most don't have them. You must also use a special numnah which should be available from the retailer. Good luck |
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 07:56:44 AM
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I bought one and although i found it really comfortable and loved the feeling of being close to the horse i prefered my treed saddle. I found it looked very bulky on my horse, i couldnt get on without something to stand on as it slipped and without the knee rolls jumping and hills were a bit dodgy. I did get a bad back after using it but im not sure why that is? I use it now without the stirrups for when i do natural horsemanship stuff.
I intend to use it for a while when i start Ruwi as i wont be going far and most saddles wont fit him until he is grown up. Also its lighweight and unrestrictive for a young horse.
Im not sure about the pressure points ect, i never had any bad experiences but then i never rode for more than an hour in it but my horse definately felt freer through the shoulder in it, he moved beautifully |
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jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 09:11:07 AM
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| I don't like the concept of them at all I'm afraid. The whole point of having a treed saddle is to position the rider up off the horse's back and to distribute their weight evenly. I've spoken to many physios re this, and not one of them thinks treeless is good for a horse's back. |
    
Borders, Scotland |
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arabic
Platinum Member
England
4562 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 2:07:22 PM
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I am afraid I am a big fan of them. Yes, they can slip and overcoming that can take a bit of doing but is possible with the right saddle,pad and girth. I had only just got into this about a year before I lost Freddie and tried quite a few different types before I found one that suited. As long as you get something that you know to be well made, the most expensive doesn't always prove the best.
It's a whole new way of riding and a new position to get used to but well worth it. I could tell in a moment how much more comfy it was for Freddie and that made me determined to iron out the niggles. Haf and suber pads worked well as we needed wither clearance and I was happy that these provided the best protection for his back. Humane girths worked best too. I ended up with the Robinsons Requisite saddle and was very impressed with it.
I was only a happy hacker so there was no need for speed or jumping but it was great to feel my boy so supple and responsive beneath me. My only qualm with a treed saddle apart from the fact that we never found the perfect fit is that a horse changes shape regularly but the tree is rigid and remains the same but a treeless and it will mould to the horses shape as it changes.
I would suggest giving some a try if you get the chance but dont give up if the first doesnt work.
good luck
Sandie |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 2:34:43 PM
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Arabic don't be afraid to be a fan!  I'm another big fan of treeless I don't know if it's because I learned bareback as a child, but I just don't like riding in a treed saddle. I hate not feeling the contact and movement of my horse when riding.
I've had Po 3.5 years and I got her a Barefoot Cheyenne from the start, she loves it and we competed up to 40 miles at endurance with absolutely no ill effects. During competition she received regular massages from various equine masseurs and never once was her back a problem. Also, the vet commented often on how strong and muscled her back was, with good topline and no atrophy.
As I've said before I don't think it suits every rider e.g. if you are 'heavy' in your stirrups then I think there's a possibility it wont suit. Holly if you hear horror stories of how a treeless saddle did this or that to a horse please try to remember there are many many more stories and examples of atrophy, damage and scarring due to ill fitting treed saddles
Fee x |
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Edited by - Fee on 14 Nov 2009 2:37:46 PM |
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Mrs DJ
Gold Member
632 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 2:39:52 PM
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Another treeless fan here.
I've never had saddle fitting issues, but really liked the concept of not having a rigid tree.
My mare was backed in a western saddle with arabian bars. She never had problems, and I loved riding in it, but got fed up of the weight ( 35lbs ). I then rode her in a Cashel soft saddle for 3yrs - basically a foam pad with stirrups attached . Loved that, too. Popped small obstacles in it, and could ride at speed, but wouldn't recommend it if you had a really spooky horse - absolutely nowhere for your knees to go!! Had the advantage of improving balance, as you can feel every movement your horse makes. Eventually, though, the foam did start to disintergrate under the webbing for the stirrups, but I'd had a lot of use out of it in those 3yrs.
Now have a Heather Moffett Fhoenix GP. It looks more or less like a traditional treed saddle, and unlike some treeless, it has a gullet for stability. I've been riding in it for 18mths. It never slips ( even when she once leapt 6ft sideways at a gallop to avoid a speeding companion who was coming up from behind ), and she shows no signs of any kind of discomfort even on a long ride. If she didn't like it she would make her feelings quite clear! Doesn't need a special pad, either, just a normal hiwither cloth. Highly recommended!!
However, I am aware that many people and their horses don't get along/agree with treeless, but it works for us.
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 3:12:08 PM
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HI
I'm a fan, I got a Torsion after trying a Dartmoor on my TB X Shire with very wide shoulders, It's comfy enough for what I want to do Guinness loves it, it really suits his size....why don't you try one before you buy, alot of the companies will allow a weeks trial for about £40.00.
Beryl |
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Ryans_gem
Silver Member
England
262 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 4:25:37 PM
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| Have ridden in Barefoot Cheyennes and like them a lot, I feel secure riding in them Have heard that Torsions stand up to expectations but not ridden in one yet |
  
My horse is my very best friend. Nothing in the world can separate us. When he dies I know he'll be waiting for me at the gate... just like always.
A horse doesn't care how much you know, untill he knows how much you care.
~ Pat Parelli ~ |
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delly-b
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1107 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 4:38:26 PM
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I too have a Heather Moffett Fhoenix... I bought it for starting my mare thinking with all the changes in her shape that would come over the years, it would be the best way to go... On her I found it very comfortable to sit on, although for various reasons (and I am not sure its just her, being very short backed) I found like I was sometimes perched on top, and just didnt feel safe, and couldnt get into the ride.
I then backed my stallion earlier this year... he is a completely different shape and size to my mare. Because I wasnt so keen on riding "on" the Fhoenix I was contemplating swapping the saddle altogether. However, I rode Yan in it, and I absolutely love it! Its comfortable, I can feel his movement, it doesnt slip, and I feel very safe on it.
So, I would say, try one.... if you like it, great... if you dont, try something else.... I think its just the same as with treed saddles... You just have to keep going till it feels right!
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Adele
Batley, West Yorkshire |
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BeckyBoodle
Gold Member
Australia
795 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 5:11:00 PM
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I go both ways. I like the treeless for the way that there is nothing to dig into the horse's back and restrict the shoulder - but one thing to watch is the stirrup bars. A friend of mine had a Heather Moffat and loved it, until she hoticed there was an area that seemed to be getting sore - it was where the stirrups bars were and apparently is not an uncommon downside. Also, if you are a wonky rider, I am told the closeness of the saddle means the rider can have quite an impact - but I guess they would on a treed saddle too.
The main problem I have with treed saddles is that a lot are not fitted as well as they could be and there seems to be a downward spiral that occurs reasonably where a saddle doesn't fit, there is muscle wastage and then the horse is fitted with a narrower saddle and so on, rather than fitting wider and allowing the muscles to build back up again. Also, a narrower fit I am told is often initially more comfortable for a modern rider. However, it is very easy to get used to a wider saddle.
I will get Eba a treed saddle when I back her next year, but do have a treeless to start things off in.
B |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 5:16:27 PM
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I've tried three different makes on Kharidian......he HATES all of them! I don't know if it's the dressage girthing or what the problem is (I don't think it's his back as he is perfectly happy in a treed saddle and for me to ride bareback) but he bucks and bites at his sides even after 20 minutes or so; he's so pitiful that I've had to dismount and lead him home. He is a 100% honest little horse; if he dislikes it that much then it's a "no" to treefree from us!
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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taranstorm
Gold Member
Wales
952 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 6:27:11 PM
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Other big fan of treeless saddles which is barefoot saddles! love them so much especially for long hacking 2/3 hours,pleasure and endurance rides would never ever go back treed saddles  so am selling them all as only use treeless now! |
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primrosepye
Silver Member
433 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 7:49:08 PM
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I love my Barefoot Cherokee (the one with kneerolls) but sadly have to sell it as need the £ for a saddle to show in. PM me if you would like the details.
Prim |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 8:51:40 PM
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As there are obviously so many happy horse & rider combinations with treefree saddles, I wonder if anyone has any thoughts as to why Kharidian is so uncomfortable? As I said, he is hacked perfectly happy for 3-4 times per week in his treed saddle ranging from approx 5 miles to approx 9 miles per hack and happily does 15 mile Pleasure Rides. He also drives and has no problem with driving harness (which has a short girth, buckled in a similar position to a dressage girth) so I am at a loss as to why he has such an extreme reaction to a treefree saddle. It really isn't an issue as the treefree is now just an ornament (I hope to start my baby in it - in 4 years!!) but would like to have an answer!
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 08:17:59 AM
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Caryn, My treeless is quite bulky and the back of it comes alot further back than my treed, maybe Kharidian doesnt like the sensation of it covering more of his back? Or maybe he doesnt like the feeling of the stirrup pressure being more concentrated in one place?
Michelle |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 12:21:30 PM
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Hi all
I agree about the stirrup leather problem, I think they advise Barnes Buckles also, but I use the cage stirrups, with ordinary leathers.
Beryl |
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Holly
Gold Member
England
529 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 5:09:28 PM
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Its interesting that not everyone gets on well with the treeless saddles.....one of my mares has no problem with her treed saddles except that she had some rubbing this summer which was from the new numnah and not the saddle. I just want my horse to be as comfortable and happy as possible and i like the idea of being as natural as possible. I will always use my treed saddles for showing and jumping as i do a lot of local competitions but like the idea of a treeless for hacking.
Im also keen to purchase a bareback pad with stirrups..has anyone used one of those? i used to do a lot of bare back riding but my mare has a prominent whither bone and is not comfortable to ride bareback. might give that a try instead.
Why is it that you have to use a special numnah with the treeless saddles? |
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arabic
Platinum Member
England
4562 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 8:06:50 PM
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Hi Holly, Personally I would steer clear of a bareback pad with stirrups. In my opinion a bareback pad is to simulate bareback riding and doesnt need stirrups. If it has them, then it becomes more of a saddle and needs to have ample protection for the horses back. Have a look at the Christ La Femmelle ones, I think they do one that has pockets to add more protection should you find yourself using it more as a saddle than bareback pad.
The special numnah is necessary because it replaces the job of the tree. Without that you are sat directly on your horse and he has nothing to protect his back. They are made of special types of foam that has been pressure tested. If your treeless has these built in then it may not be as necessary but after reading the treeless horror stories I was happier to have more rather than less protection.
I tended to rely on my stirrups a bit too much and being aware of this I found my style of riding changed completely. Even though I had the correct numnah I was very much aware of stirrup pressure and avoided it at all costs. My style of riding changed completely and felt so much more relaxed and enjoyable. |
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Treeless saddles-your views please
