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Shallah
New Member
21 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 4:34:23 PM
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Can bute cause liver failure?
My mare died on Monday she was 24 years old.She was in for about 4 weeks with Laminitis and I was given pain killers.I was worried about her and on Monday morning called the vet and told him she had stopped eating, he came and took a blood test.I think he thought I was over reacting and said she looked ok. But the swelling in her stomach was getting bigger.He was focusing on her laminitis.
At three my friend heard loud breathing coming from my stable,went and got help by then she was laying down,her head got lower and she died.Has anyone lost a horse like this as I cant come to terms with what happened.
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 4:42:03 PM
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| I can't give specific advice, a swelling can mean any organ failure in the stomach. Talk to your vet again. Grieve for your lovely Shallah, it is a horrible experience to lose a beloved horse and it takes time. If you want to speak to me pm me, I'll give you my number. X |
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 4:48:16 PM
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I will try to help if I can, but I am no vet or expert of any kind!
Yes it can cause liver disease which would in turn lead to liver failure BUT it is usually in extremely high doses or over a long period of time.
My vet was part of a group who had to study the toxidity levels in horses on bute - basically keep shovelling it in until they died! Horrific I know, but it was many years ago - he is still a bit traumatised by it, I think!
He has Pasha on 1 Danillon a day (Danillon is meant to be kinder to the liver as it does not turn into bute until it is digested in the stomach), but if we need to give him 2 a day, like when he had Lami, he is not happy about it at all - Pasha has been on 1 a day for over a year now for arthritis and he have bloods every few months to monitor any changes in levels.
He is of course happy to prescribe a 7-day course when needed as there is little risk of this causing any long-term damage!
That's what I know, as told to me by my vet, but others may know different?
I can't imagine 4 weeks worth would have caused that amount of damage unless she had a liver problem to begin with or was on unusually high doses? |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 4:57:39 PM
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Yes, it can but as Pasha says it has to be given for a very long time to do so and I'd be surprised if it happened in 4 weeks. I've fed bute for more than 4 weeks at a time when I've had to (prefer to use Danilon now though) and not had any problems with mine.
Sorry to hear about your loss  |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 6:04:52 PM
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Yes I was told by my vet that it can lead to liver failiure if a prolonged use, but in small doses occasionally is safe.
My 23 year old mare minuette had to use it to control pain at the end of her life and I was warned of the dangers , but of course it is the lesser of two evils, you dont want them to suffer pain, she was able to have a few more years because of bute, so I weighed up that I would rather give it to her and risk the liver failiure. so sorry for your loss . |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 7:23:02 PM
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| so very sorry to hear about your lovely mare. I have two on long term Bute - one is my old Arab mare Fly - shes in her late 20's -the other is my 9 yr old American Saddlebred Amigo - hes just 9. I was very concerned about long term Bute use - but after talking to Lisa our Vet I was happy to use it. Lisa posts on here as Lisa Rachel - I hope she sees this post & answers it - she has an equine only Vet practice - BRILL! |
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joanna_piana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3935 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 7:59:25 PM
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| So sorry to hear of your loss |
      
Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 8:58:15 PM
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Yes it definitely can! Prolonged use or high doses can be fatal - one of ours was subject to it (not by us) and spent a month on a drip at Newmarket fighting for his life. Thankfully he's recovered but his black skin has gone very pink. It took a year for him to recover totally and he needed very careful management throughout the whole process. Ours didn't display any of the symptoms you have mentioned - he showed dramatic weight loss and his gums went a very peculiar colour (yellowy-grey), his droppings went incredibly pale (very pale straw colour) and he just looked exhausted and weary with no life and no interest in anything, completely staring coat that was coarse to touch. He didn't display any signs of colic or pain.
So sorry to hear about your mare. |
   www.eviepeel.com    |
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Shallah
New Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 9:25:26 PM
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| Thanks thats been helpful,she had really pale tongue the day before almost white and very crinkley then it was back to pink in the morning. Something was going on I will have to ask the vet for results from the blood test but not ready to ask at moment.He said he thought the blood was very dark and that might mean liver problems. |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 9:38:37 PM
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| that change in colour (and a toxic line close to gums) is usually sign of some major 'abdominal catastrophe'. At that age she could have had organ failure, or a mass causeing bowel to become necrotic etc. The laminitis may have been a symptom, not the problem, or the other way around - a PM would tell you, but I wouldn't blame the bute. It's so hard to lose them, don't be angry x |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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kcv1223
Gold Member
England
651 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 11:08:21 PM
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So sorry to hear of your loss.
I was always worried about long term bute intake as my old TB has been on bute to manage arthiritis and a host of other leg/foot problems for in excess of 5 years at a dose of one or two a day depending on the time of year - he's easier in his joints in the summer.
My vet said when Toad was 20, bute may damage the liver in 5 years but at his age what have you got to lose - neither one of us expected to still be pondering that issue with Toad approaching 25 years old and still happy if not a bit "noddy"!
I can't imagine the short term bute usage caused the untimely loss of your mare based on my own experience. But, I am very sad for you - I know when my old boy goes I will be devastated.
Best wishes
Karen |
www.alkaraarabians.co.uk |
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Shallah
New Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2009 : 07:54:24 AM
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I think I will probably never no what happened,but it a interesting subject.
It will get easier but it was a shock thanks for your opinions,they were very helpful,lovely to hear about lots of aged-ed horses. |
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precious
Platinum Member
England
2253 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2009 : 08:05:33 AM
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Hi shallah, so sorry to hear about your horse!
Everyones comments are good, it can casue damage with a high dosage over long periods, my horse has been on one a day on and off for 12 months. Vets arent conserned as its a low dose, but id rather the risk than him being in pin.
So sorry again
sending hugs  xx |
     
Gemma Thompson
Birmingham West Midlands
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2009 : 08:36:51 AM
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This sounds more like a abdominal problem. The pale gums etc and the swelling and sudden collapse sounds like an abdominal aortic aneurysm (A blood vessel burst) or could have been a heart attack.
A low dose of Bute would not cause Liver problems.
Pauline |
Pauline Higgs
Equine & Human Holistic Therapist
www.thegentlestouch.co.cc
www.endurancegbmidsouth.co.uk
Berkshire / Hampshire Border |
Edited by - Pauline on 19 Jun 2009 08:38:57 AM |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2009 : 10:56:57 AM
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Agree with Pauline..........most likely to have been heart attack, which may have been the end result of possibly burst blood vessel and bleeding into the abdomen...hence the swollen belly
Bute would have to be used over a very prolonged period and at a large dosage to be the cause of death through liver damage
Bute has saved many an old arthritic horse/pony the discomfort and pain associated with joint `wear and tare`.....and given them and their Owners a few more years together.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Renee
Gold Member
539 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2009 : 8:42:55 PM
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| Hi Shallah, I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your mare, I know how awful it is to lose such a much-loved horse. My experience, if it helps, is with my old Arabian who had clinical liver failure aged 20 due to eating ragwort. He very nearly died, and for the rest of his life I had to manage him extremely carefully and had regular blood tests done. I refused to give him virtually any drugs, using homeopathy and herbs instead. I retired him aged 28, and gradually his arthritis got gradually worse so when he got to 33, and was clearly on the 'home straight' (although happy & ok, I didn't think it was possible he would go on for more than a year or two at the most) so I put him on one danilon a day, figuring that he could have the rest of his time in relative comfort - although he was obviously a high risk for liver problems due to his history - as Lyndilou says, the danilon was the better of two evils. He had a lovely year and we put him down due to something completely unrelated to his liver. I suspect the same as others have suggested regarding your mare, that it was something other than the bute. Best wishes, Renee |
      
Jeago (Ludomino x Bahia) 1973-2007 & Khylie* (Nazdrowie x Kaminah) 1990-2010 ~ Fouad el Khyl (Lothar el Nyhl x Khylie) 2005- |
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saddlebred
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1706 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 6:39:01 PM
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Hi Shallah
I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your lovely mare. I have to agree with everyone else on here. I am no vet but I would think it would be highly unlikely that bute caused liver damage in such a short time.
My old boy had to be on bute to keep him as a pet from age 5 and he wouldnt eat anything other than Equipalazone. He lived to 29 without any side effects.
I am sure that nothing you or your vet gave to your horse caused her passing. RIP little one.
Debs |
Based Bewdley Worcs |
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Can bute cause liver failure?
