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BeckyBoodle
Gold Member
 Australia
795 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 01:43:01 AM
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We had dinner tonight with very nice neighbours - he professes to be v horsey. When I mentioned I had a horse and wanted to do dressage he was immediately v interested - he has done it all, local shows, country shows, you name it. Then I said she was an Arab. Well you should have seen the look on his face. It basically said don't be stupid, Arabs do in-hand and possibly endurance, but definitely nothing more. Well. It ****ed me off.
I know have taken a risk. I bought Eba at 18 months. I always wanted a black arab, which she is. I want a horse to do dressage and light endurance ie pleasure rides. Her grand sire - Mista Beaugangles was known for endurance and producing endurance horses. I know she has cow hocks, but that said, I had the chiro out to her about 2 months ago as a learning experience, and since then she has changed no end.
But the main reason I bought her - and she was the one and only horse I saw which I know is against all the rules but I had seen black horses where she was located and I had always thought how much I wanted one of those - was that her front end moved with such looseness and fluidity, that I thought if you could just engage the hindquarters she will literaly just float. Her breeding is heavily Babson, with a bit of Sireccho, CMK, Crabbet and new Egyption. She should make about 15.1 or so.
I know I have taken a risk, but I could have bought a Trakehener etc at the same age and it would be no more of a risk. Why is it that so many people right you off once you 'fess up to owning an Arab?
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trinity
Gold Member
Scotland
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 06:18:00 AM
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Mostly it's down to a lack of knowledge about what the Arab can do. However, it's people just like you who are starting to dispell the "Arab" myths. Of course many Arabs can do dressage and many can show jump and we just need to get out there and show people that. Some people's opinions just come down to pure snobbery and those you will never change, but many people are sitting up and taking notice. So good for you - get out there and do your stuff. Best of luck and look forward to hearing how you get on. |
Beck |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 07:32:25 AM
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Ignore it, he'll be eating his words (and some humble pie) when she's a smashing allrounder, and a true companion to boot.
x |
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 09:03:51 AM
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I think it depends at what level you want to compete at dressage. Warmbloods are possibly the only option if you are thinking of SUCCESSFULLY competing at grand prix level (well OK, advanced medium and above) just because they have those huge paces and they collect. But not all of them, and remember your neighbour may well only be competing at novice level anyway in which case its a big dose of inverse snobbery. I hope to get Spider to Elementary by the end of this year, but after that it will depend on him and lets be honest - my riding skills, and thats my point really - most average riders wont get further than that anyway so wont need a Warmblood.
What I find unforgivably rude is people who think it is OK to tell you all arabs are bonkers/lawn ornaments/poorly conformed with little or no experience or knowledge. It is a most fashionable opinion isn t it? Also it just marks them out as being a bit daft.
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West Sussex |
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 09:38:38 AM
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I am a die-hard arab fan, been brought-up with them and there truly is no other breed that gives a ride like an Arab BUT (and I say this with caution), I sadly can only say this about a select few - I have seen and ridden many Arabs that I wouldn't want as a gift!
I think it's our own fault - alot of our best ambassadors for the breed are shown and kept for stud duties only - there are very few out there competing against the other breeds (at the higher levels) and this is not due to lack of ability! Therefore, the masses if you like, only get to see the average Arab (just like the average Warmblood), not destined for great things! You only have to look at the Stallion ads... wins at X show, National Champion etc etc But where are the BD points/placings or BSJA winnings?
Arabs are capable of the 'wow' paces that the dressage judges are looking for, if trained correctly, but until there are more out there strutting their stuff, opinions won't change!
I also love "certain" warmbloods. In fact any breed in my eyes has the ability to excel in any sphere, providing it has quality and good conformation and of course a willing temperament.
I am still very much 50/50 as to what my next horse will be... I have previously said on here that you need a warmblood in order to be competitive at the higher levels in dressage and I still stand by that - it will take TIME and alot of effort for Arab owners/riders to change the widespread opinion that Arabs lack the ability to do advanced movements. If I had my time all over again, Pasha would have gone advanced - he was doing half steps of passage and starting piaffe before he went lame in November - sadly old age has caught up with us! For me, I have my dream Arab and I don't think anyone could replace him and as an amateur one-horse owner I don't feel capable of taking on the dressage world - I want to compete and do well and for that, at the moment will probably mean buying a Warmblood x |
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Edited by - Pasha on 03 Mar 2009 09:40:40 AM |
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 09:58:17 AM
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| Thats a really good point Pasha. Why dont the Hoys horses for example go on to dressage? Probably because there is a bit of a chasm between showing and dressage. Perhaps there are show horses who dont like dressage ? Actually isnt Toman competing at the minute? |
West Sussex |
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Emma B
Silver Member
United Kingdom
412 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 10:34:57 AM
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| I know how people react when i take my horse to dressage OH ITS AN ARAB. But i have never had any negative comments about his movement. Behaviour sometimes or tension but not that he isnt supple or cant manage a medium trot. Look at Kit Rolfe she is doing really well. I honestly dont think there is any reason arabs cant go all the way in dressage. There are many movements that they can do alot more naturally than some other big horses so I say go for it show these people that arabs are just as good if not better.... |
     
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 10:49:32 AM
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When at a dressage competition with our Anglo stallion one winter, he had done a particularly good test that day, a fellow competitor on an enormous Warmblood came and asked how he was bred. When I replied he was Anglo she asked Anglo what? I took a deep breath and said Arab. Her answer - OMG if he wasn't Arab I'd use him.
Sad, but gave us a good laugh. Don't you feel sorry for the uneducated?
The other thing I've found over the years is that people who have only ridden Warmbloods etc. often find they can't get on with Arab-bred horses because, and I hope I can say this without offence, the horse is usually more intelligent than the rider!
Jean |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 11:41:13 AM
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Thanks for the giggle Jean. Its true, that the uneducated `other` breeds fraternity have this "OH MY GOD..Not an Arab" perception.
We once had a staunch Huntsman ask to view our TB stallion. Whilst he visited with his wife, She noted we bred Anglos and asked to see Scelebrity. Her hubby immediatly Phoo Phooed the idea "B....y Arabs...no way" !!
We proceeded to show him our TB boy and he was well pleased. However, his wife insisted she wanted to see our Anglo stallion, so OH got him in, stood him up, walked and trotted
him in a straight line, then turned him out in the menage, to show his paces off. Needless to say, this guy, was gobsmacked and stated. "Alright so I was wrong"...and brought his Hunter mare, to be covered by Scelebrity, making a point of saying to his wife.........."and don`t you get telling anyone we are covering the Mare with an "Arab"
Needless to say, the mare produced a super big strong foal, but sadly, the owner had no intention of registering the foal with AHS. The mare has since produced another foal, sired by Scelebrity
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Scarlet Arabian
Silver Member
England
339 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 12:11:43 PM
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having had both warmbloods, and Arabs and pbas,not forgetting hunters, of mixed breeds, i think you can have a difficult horse or equally a fantastic horse in any breed,
many warmbloods have TB,and Arabian blood in their heritage to make them what they are today,but this is all to easily forgotten.
i am sure that when arabs were bred many moons ago, they were intended for a useful job , not just to look pretty, and many have.
we have registered my arabian warmblood cross with AHS and over stamped SHB
and will show /promote him as both, but there is a big divide and until these kinds of horses including AA and PBAs are out there beating them at their own game,the arab influence will fade in to the distance.
much the same as some people who are fans of arabs are not fond of coloured pintabians/NSH horses.
some times it comes to just plain snobbery and rudeness not to mark each others horses with respect.
Abby
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stacatto wind...... kharibe........salana A/A........julien p/b........scarlet...
whitsbury/new forest
www.scarletarabianbridles.co.uk |
Edited by - Scarlet Arabian on 03 Mar 2009 12:15:28 PM |
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sammie_85
Bronze Member
66 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 5:08:04 PM
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| Who do people not think Arabs can do anything? my arab mare a bit scatty and not as big as these warmbloods (obviously) but once she has her stupidness and she relaxes onto the bit she looks every bit as good as them and can do everything they do! Im crossing her with a TB for Anglo Arab to bring up as my own dressage horse though rather than go for the traditional warmblood. |
Edited by - sammie_85 on 03 Mar 2009 5:22:29 PM |
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spirit
Gold Member
England
567 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 5:21:31 PM
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Hi, I had a person come onto my yard the other day, they teach a couple of people who stable here. This trainer specialises in Part bred Show hunters/ponies.
He is a nice enough person and was asking about my horses. He said "why do you have Arabs?" "Give me a part bred any day but never a pure bred, they are too hot, skitty and unmanageable!"
I went on to say that you find a skitty horse in any breed and that I have never had a bond with a horse like I have with my Arabs. I don't find them Skitty and hot, some are more sensitive than others and they are generally the ones that are incredibly intelligent and will try to outwit you at every level - but does that not just mean that people who say this need a dumb horse, as they cant work with a horse with any intelligence.
I said to him that I have had incredibly sensitive (not hot!) Arabs and remarkably laid back Arabs that never gave any ifs or buts, every horse has a different personality.
I do agree that quality Arabs can do anything, but for Grand Prix level dressage you would possibly need a Warmblood or breed such as a Pura Raza Espanola (Andalusian) who are just as successful at top level Dressage.
But I do find it incredibly annoying and arrogant when people make comments about the Breed when they have no experience working with them! 
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Cleworth Hall Farm
df.ballerina@googlemail.com
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Otto
Bronze Member
England
119 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 6:35:07 PM
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Its the same old story - "Arabs can't do dressage and can't jump". Quite frankly anyone who says or thinks like this is demonstrating their complete predujdice and lack of knowledge and experience of the breed. Have these individuals ACTUALLY sat on or had the opportunity to train Arabs?
If one takes a close look at how the Arabian horse is put together then it becomes apparent that they are built for athletic performance and in a lot of individuals high school dressage. These guys are built for collection!!! They don't take months of training to give you a decent Piaffe - it comes naturally!! I have heard of many Arabs at Grand Prix level, often getting to that level far quicker than their Warmblood counterparts. Only yesterday I was discussing this very issue with a colleague and we concluded that Warmbloods are so popular and dominant in modern dressage because they are type of horse you can effectively "force" to work with the head strapped in - has anyone seen the horrendous and ill-founded fashion for the "Rollkur" method of head carriage and training that is now so popular and common place in modern dressage?? Imagine trying to ride an Arab like that and you'd very quickly get two fingers stuck up at you!! So perhaps we have reached the unhappy Warmblood-only situation in modern dressage because as a group of horses they are more tolerant of the sometimes appalling methods of training (which I might add are completely removed from the original classical training methods).
Oops, it appears I have had a bit of a rant 
By the way - if you want to read a good book about the state of Modern Dressage then I can highly recommend Phillippe Karl's "The twisted truths of modern dressage". It makes a lot of sense.
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rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 7:52:56 PM
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Go out and prove him wrong!!! |
     
Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 8:18:18 PM
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We all know that they make these comments because they are jealous,of our versatile gorgeous arabs 
They are also too stupid to understand the arab mentality,let them keep their big daft dobbins,,who would want one? |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 9:49:04 PM
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I have 5 warmbloods on my livery yard, all of various types and top quality , and sadly a warmblood with a pretty face and a flashy walk will get better marks then an 'average / normal' horse as soon as it enters the arena  just because it makes the judges sit up and take notice.
I'v just backed my youngster and have started having lessons with an excellent dressage judge on him and my older boy, (who also teaches the said warmbloods on the yard) and she's bubbles over with enthusiasm about my 2 boys she said she would never have looked twice at an arab before but my boys are so well behaved (sometimes a bit cheeky) and so intelligent and quick to learn that they are a joy to teach 
The youngster is a big boy and she reckons he will be able to give any warmblood a run for it's money as he has such a fab walk and huge trot!
The important bit for me though was changing her perception, she now loves my boys and wouldn't think twice about RECOMMENDING one now!!
Crabbets strike again |
   
www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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debbie_parkinson
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 10:14:40 PM
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hi i have read some of the coments about people with warmbloods not giving enough credit to arabs doing dressarge , i own a warmblood trakenher x kwpn witch i bought as an alrounder and i also love arabs altough i dont own one i have ridden a few and i think arabs have as much right to do dressarge as warmbloods after all i have herd about people doing novice dressarge on mules. i say let the arabs compete at dressarge x |
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Ryans_gem
Silver Member
England
262 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 10:18:31 PM
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I've met a lot of arab haters and continue to do so I didn't realise there was so many!!! to me a horse is a horse whatever the breed I don't have any preferences for any one breed in particular nor am I a ' arab convert' I thought the term horse lover meant you loved all equines great and small.
A horse of any breed which is a pleasure to own is worth his weight in gold over a horse of any breed which is a hard going in my opinion.
I do agree that 'rollkur' is quite horrible and certainly un natural for the poor horses
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My horse is my very best friend. Nothing in the world can separate us. When he dies I know he'll be waiting for me at the gate... just like always.
A horse doesn't care how much you know, untill he knows how much you care.
~ Pat Parelli ~ |
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debbie_parkinson
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 10:20:48 PM
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| i also think that horse lovers shouldnt judge other breeds as every one has there own likes and dislikes i love arabs and was going to buy one untill i found my warmblood and i wouldnt swap her for the world i love warmbloods but i dont judge other breeds as a horse is a horse just diffrent breeds sute diffrent people x i also have a cob and a trotter x and although there all diffrent breeds i love them the same which as the coment above says a horse lover loves all horses not just one breed x |
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Edited by - debbie_parkinson on 03 Mar 2009 10:23:10 PM |
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BeckyBoodle
Gold Member
Australia
795 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 10:30:12 PM
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Debbie I totally agree. I have had a lot of contact with Trakehners and if it wasn't that I always wanted an Arab, I would have gone that route. I just find it so odd that so many people seem to be so anti-Arabs.
Thanks everyone for indulging me my rant. |
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NUTTER
Platinum Member
England
2452 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 10:37:25 PM
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Debbie so true...
Fave of mine and the kids over the years was my evil cob now pts !! Best ride was my tb when i was 18 he floated.. the little cob we have now is good as gold but not my choice of ride and the 2 yr old who knows what hes to be capable of..
My daughters arab and my ride at the mo !! my daughter got her when she was only just 11 yrs.. people said who did not have arabs we were mad.. it was not a childs ride !!
My daughter will be 17 yrs this year and has done most things with Carz and excelled at all at the level shes entered..
This mare gave her confidence back when she had said she would never ride again after having a ppc pony that was amazing but not suited to D and had frightened the life out of her..joke was people thought we were mad parting company with that mare for a arab who has given usnearly 7 years of pleasure and will be with us to her end.. |
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Mazza
Junior Member
England
49 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 11:05:06 PM
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Just stumbled on this topic which is one that is always of interest to me.
Any horse can do dressage - it's just correct training. I ride several arabs that regularly compete from prelim to elementary dressage, frequently beating the warmbloods at their own game and there are a number of other people at our yard doing the same. Admittedly not all these horses will make it to advanced level, for which you need a horse with exceptional talent and trainability, as well as the ability to stay sound, whatever their breeding. But arabs or their part breds can certainly get all the way to Grand Prix as has been proven many times in the past - and would probably have been proven even more if more people picked arabs to do advanced dressage on. I ride a fantastic PBA (37% arab, 0% warmblood) who has won BD affiliated PSG and Inter Is, is training towards Grand Prix and is about to debut at Inter II. He's proved he can do it by getting out there and doing it. So I just think people shouldn't judge a book by it's cover - the proof is in the pudding whether you are on an arab, a cob or a warmblood, your results will speak for themselves. So just get out there are compete and show the non-believers they are wrong. |
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debbie_parkinson
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 11:19:16 PM
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i totally agree any horse can succeed at anything with the correct training and time with patience so i agree don't judge a book by its cover very true x |
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SarahA
Silver Member
476 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 12:07:05 AM
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Have to agree that Arabs can do dressage, and it really is pure snobbery and somewhat a fashion fad to have big huge striding warmbloods, IMO if the judge cannot tell the difference between breed types and understand their movements then they shouldnt be a blooming judge.
I really arent a dressage fan, but i do love watching it at a very high level, however i am always amazed then my friends rave about this and that horses movement, but overlook the pony whom as far as I can see is performing the test perfectly and is moving beautifully. I might be wrong but surely dressage should be about a supple, responsive horse, with the ability to collect and lenthen strides etc. and if your highland/new forest/arab/welsh is doing all of this then surely they shouldnt be marked down because they are not a 17.1hh warmblood which obviously has a much larger stride, although IMO not as nice as an Arabians movement OR a Welsh Section D's movement.
Warmblood snobbery drives me absolutey NUTS, yes i would agree that there are some lovely warmblood horses around, but equally some very bad mixes, and people are quick to forget that warmblood only means hot x cold blood.
My friends registered Hanoveran mare was in actual fact a TB x Hanoverian, and if you checked the Hanoverian stallion he was actually out of a TB Mare by a Hanoverian Stallion, and that Hanoverian stallion was actually a Anglo Arab, so in actual fact what she had was a TB x SelleFrancis x Arab horse. Not that she would admit the Arab part
My other friends Warmblood gelding who is a registered Dutch Warmblood, is in actual fact another TB x Dutch warmblood, and that stallion was yet another cross, so what she actually has is a TB x Gronigen x Holsteiner x Arab (she wont admit to anything but Dutch Warmblood)
Sorry rant over, well nearly fashions can and do change and in 10 years time when the fashion for these huge horses as a dressage horse is over, what then, scrap heap and the new fad ?? |
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Scarlet Arabian
Silver Member
England
339 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 07:53:17 AM
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perhaps BeckyBoodle you could next time remind your dinner guest how much arab breeding may well be in his warmblood? to make it the horse it is today.
see how well that goes down!!!
Abby |
stacatto wind...... kharibe........salana A/A........julien p/b........scarlet...
whitsbury/new forest
www.scarletarabianbridles.co.uk |
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debbie_parkinson
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 9:55:57 PM
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| i agree with the comment above i have a warmblood and i was surprised to see how much Anglo Arab there is in her breeding it shocked me but then i don't mind cause i love all breeds lol |
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What is it with people and warmbloods
