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Letti
Junior Member
 France
38 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 6:23:02 PM
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Hello everybody,
I'm sorry to disturb you but I live in France and my horse has Leucocytoclastic Vasculitis for 8 months now on two of his 4 white legs and the veterinarians are not able to cure it.
In France it is not comon at all (my horse is the one living case !)
I am very anxious cause it is getting worther and worther and I would like to know if some of you have had horses with leucocytocalsatic vasculitis and how did they treat them ?
Thank you very much if you can help me because I'm kind of desperate.
Thanks
Laëtitia
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Timberwolf
Gold Member
England
726 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 9:56:59 PM
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Hi Letti,
I must admit that | have never heard of this condition. I just did a google search and had a quick read up and it sounds and looks awfull. It looks allmost like a condition one of the horses I used to ride had. He had 4 white socks and during the summer months they were always red and sore. We used to smother them in sudocrem which seemed to help alot. Hope you can fine a solution for him. It must be very worrying for you and painfull for your poor horse.
Good Luck
Jackie. xx |
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Pixie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
6586 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 10:10:10 PM
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| I too had nevery heard of this condition. Awful! |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
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Offira
Platinum Member
England
1583 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 06:49:04 AM
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My horse occasionally gets something like this in the summer if the grass is long and wet. I use sudocream, protocon or even cornucrescine. Make sure the area is absolutely dry and plaster it with the cream, right into the cracks. Seal the whole area. Every day wipe off the area (scabs and gunge) and reapply the cream thickly. Don't pick the scabs they sort of soak off.
I never use hibiscrub or anything like that as it makes it much worse. It seams to be the sealing from the air and stopping moisture getting to it that makes it heal. It always attacks the white leg and looks awful. If you can't get the creams in France, I'll post you some if you like.
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 07:37:23 AM
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YES, we get it every summer. It seems to be more common over here, and especially on arabs.
It's awful but can be prevented successfully by slabbing on loads of high factor sun cream (at least factor 40, preferably higher) - or keep the horse indoors during daylight.
LV is a type of photosensitivity. It's a particular type of sunray that causes it and no amount of scrubbing will remove it, normal mud fever treatment doesn't work. When it gets bad it's painful for the horse and it can make them lame.
For bad cases or to clear up long running cases you can get treatment through the vet (ask Polly on here, she's v experienced with LV), I think it's some sort of steroids but not sure as we've never had to resort to it.
I must admit that I've used aromaheel from aromesse on a few scabs that has come through on occasion and it seems to work as it softens the scabs and you can easily pick them off to then have a clean clear leg to slab on some more suncream on.
Shah gets it like clockwork every Jul/Aug. I prevented it very successfully last year with sun cream, but the cream wore off during a 2-day endurance ride and the scabe set it straight away - taught me to make sure I carry some cream with me when I ride!! His LV tends to disappear on its own in Oct when the weather changes. I guess we don't have as much sunlight as you do in France!!!
This year I'm on a quest to see if I can find any supplement that can help prevent it. I've not found anything yet, basically because the vet research so far hasn't been able to single out anything that these horses are missing in their diet. But I'm determined to at least try something... |
West Sussex |
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Letti
Junior Member
France
38 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 09:47:14 AM
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Thank you very very much everybody for your answers and your help, that's really great for me to, at last, find other persons who encounter the same issue !
Shah, unfortunately for my horse, unlike your shah, it didn't disappear on its own and now that summer is coming again I'm very anxious. You are talking about aromheels to remove the scabs, could you give me the name of the product ? And if your quest of suplements succeed I will be very interested !!
Offira thank you very much for your advices. I have already noticed that when I pick the scabs the day after it is worse but I wasn't sure, so know I won't touch it anymore. You tell me to not use hibiscrub but how you wash it then ???
Concerning the creams thank you very much for ypur "postage offer" but I look and it is possible to find it in France so which one do you think I must apply ?
Gossy thank you for your link.
I think that I won't do without steroids but I must admitt that it scared me... I will send a PM to Polly to ask her about her horse and the treatment.
One more thing : In France they don't sell sunblock boots so I'm trying to order it on Internet but it is not easy, if any of you can give me an adress ??
Again thank you very much everybody...
Laëtitia |
Edited by - Letti on 31 Mar 2008 11:35:16 AM |
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Letti
Junior Member
France
38 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 10:14:20 AM
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I put some photos of one of his affected legs so you can see :
This is after one month of antibiotics and daily application of cream with cortisone and hydration cream... I don't know what to do anymore... |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 12:19:51 PM
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Bless him, he looks very sore. I would say don't wash, it will just make it more sore.
I haven't tried these boots so I can't recommend them but I was thinking about buying them as they look good - EQUILBRIUM SUN PROTECT CHAPS:
http://www.rideaway.co.uk/index2.php3?sessionid=c188c5df604e7c8c863c346b7c315c5c&page=showprod&uact=shop&catcode1=HBOO&catcode2=SUN
Anyone here tried them?
You might want to team them with a factor 50 sun block cream as well to start with just to make sure no rays comes through.
I've also tried tea tree and lavender oils, diluted in some good quality oil, the lavender is soothing, and it works ok but not brill.
Aromaheel is from Aromesse (http://www.aromesse.com/indexeq.htm), it's not hugely expensive so it might be worth just buying a pot and try it as it's definitely not going to make anything worse. My only problem with it is that you almost need to keep them indoors while it works because you can't put this on and then the sun cream on top and if you don't have the sun cream on the scabs won't go away.  Maybe slash on aromaheel then use the boots on top - just an idea
Polly's vet is experienced with LV so if you put a FAO for her she might be able to get him to talk to your vet to help you?
I know how awful LV is so I really sympathise. It's taken me four years to now have some sort of control over it. To start with we were treating it as mudfever but it never went away, we had it for months and months then and he even went lame with it because he was so sore. |
West Sussex |
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Merlot
Platinum Member
England
3260 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 1:40:03 PM
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| My mate Polly's chestnut mare had this quite severely a couple of years ago, it was an awful time for both of them but with the help of her fantastic Vet, they slowly got her over it. Will ask her to check this thread and comment, she may have some advice to offer. |
 photo by Eric G Jones |
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Letti
Junior Member
France
38 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2008 : 10:10:36 AM
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Shah : thank you very much again for your advices. For the boots I don't know because I want to put them outside so if it rains a little bit I think some kind of fly boots with anti-UV protection would be better... If anyone has tried ?
I ordered Aromaheel I hope it will help. I hope that I will be able to control the LV, Polly answered my PM and gave me her vet's email adress : my vet is now writing to them so I hope a lot from this.
Merlot : thank you very much I'm pretty sure Polly's vet will help us very efficiently...
I thank you all for your friendliness, I really appreciate your answers and your help. |
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suejs001
Bronze Member
England
200 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2008 : 4:18:48 PM
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Hi, I would take a different approach and I would email the vets at Liverpool / Bristol / Edinburgh etc etc (sorry UK University Vet schools) send the pictures and your plight. Email Derek Knottenbelt at Leahurst equine / Liverpool university. He is the nicest man and will often help. the liverpool university teaching hospital number is UK 0151 794 6041 and Ask for Derek Knottenbelt. explain you have an incurable Leucocytoclastic Vasculitis. His resident is Fernando if you cannot get him. I would see what they say, as a teaching hospital I am sure any one of the university vet schools would want to help to teach the students.
All I can suggest and hope it helps |
Sue |
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Letti
Junior Member
France
38 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2008 : 5:59:17 PM
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Sue : that is a really great idea, I have found the email adress of Knottenbelt and my vet will write to him too. Anyway another advice can't be a bad thing.
Thank you very you are really helping me and my poor horse... |
Edited by - Letti on 01 Apr 2008 5:59:48 PM |
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kizzandra
Bronze Member
Scotland
73 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 2:13:22 PM
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Hi Letti
I used the Equilibrium Sun protect chaps when my horse developed photo sensitivity last summer. I found them to be excellent and they certainly helped the scabs to heal up.
They are double layered so I found them to be OK to be worn in light showers as the moisture didn't get through to the skin. Heavier rain did wet them through and my horse had to come inside as the rain would have washed off sun block too.
Hope that helps!
Alison |
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Songbird
Bronze Member
England
152 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 11:56:42 AM
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Hi Letty
I am sure after reading this weeks Horse and Hound that my filly has been suffering from leucocytoclastic vasculitis. She went down with it in her three white socks one by one ,even though treated from day 1, last September. No mud around . No matter what the vet did it got worse and she was terribly swollen and in such pain she had to be sedated to treat her. When the wet weather came she went on box rest and spent 5 months in having regular vet treatment . To my horror she has had three double courses of antibiotics and every ointment and potion known to man but I soon realised that nothing made any difference , it would have to run it's course.
At it's worst it helped to clip the area , it would improve to some extent every time we clipped. Also some anti inflammatory treatment helped a lot with the swelling and rawness. My vet produces his own gorgeous smelling herbal ointment which was definitely soothing.
She is now almost clear but we have a small patch on one leg which I still can't knock on the head but I'm trying! She turns out in Sportabac long turnout socks just to be safe and I put a tiny bandage on the affected bit so it dosn't gat any dirt in it . I'm sur it'll soon be gone completely '
I've had some experience of this before and I am sure from experience that once they've had this they have some immunity and you don't have to worry too much about recurrence. Hope this helps . I've never sen such a bad case as my fillys . |
Kit Rolfe |
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Claire
Silver Member
England
422 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 5:38:46 PM
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Hi everybody- my gelding Mirshid gets something very similar to this every summer and mudfever in the winter- I have been at my wits end but eventually made some of my own 'sunboots' as I call them out of cream thick material with velcro round the top and they just hang over the white feet- seems to work well.. I have just discovered something called aromaheel for the mud fever which I may try in the summer as when I wiped it off all the scabs came too with no distress to the horse (previously everyone advised me to pick the scabs off, but obviously this was v painful for him and understandably he tried to kick me away!) now he just stands to have his cream on and is clear of everything (fingers crossed) . I have also changed his feed to simple systems as I have been told mollasses may affect this tendency?. |
      
Suffolk |
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Rach1
Gold Member
England
735 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 8:07:08 PM
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| Hi - You won't believe this but my 15 year old home bred T.B. had LV for probably 5 months. I tried every thing to cure him, then one day while I was apply ing sun cream to his pink nose I put some on his sore leg and it WORKED. Nothing special just kids total sun block from Boots the Chemist. He hasn't had it for a couple of years now. Give it a go you might be surprised. |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 07:39:30 AM
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I completely agree with Rachel - sunblock is the BEST thing for LV.
I'm also going to try a herbal supplement called Berberine this year (from Roger at Trinity). It's just an experiment so I've no idea whether it will work but we're going to try. |
West Sussex |
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Letti
Junior Member
France
38 Posts |
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Letti
Junior Member
France
38 Posts |
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Letti
Junior Member
France
38 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 10:46:32 AM
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Claire, I'm really happy to hear that your horse too is now completely clear, and with rach and shah you confirm that sunblock is essential...
Shah has already told me about aromaheel and I've already ordered it so I will probably receive it very soon.
Shah, I'm very interested in your supplement, I think I will try to find some too (it cannot be bad anyway).
Now some news : as it seems to be the only solution as Polly told me : my horse now receives massive amounts of steroid. I think it improves a little bit (after only 7 days of treatment). My vet tells me that we will give him steroid during 2 months (degressive amounts) I hope that it won't make him sick but I have no choice.
Polly's vet and doctor Knottenbelt haven't answer to our emails yet, I hope they will...
Again thank you everybody for your experimentation, advice and help. It really helps me a lot.
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Sheena
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1810 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 12:21:26 PM
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I'm really interested in reading this as I have posted previously on the post 'mudfever - or is it?' As the filly I am looking after has suffered from the same. My Vet made up a steroid based cream and I have now been treating her for just over a month. She probably only has 10% of the scabs she did have, but the last few seem particularly stubborn. |I've not wanted to shave her fur off for fear that this would make it easier for the UV rays to penetrate her skin. If the weather is too wet, or like yesterday with the snow she stays in, if she out and it's dry she is bandaged, although I wont do this in hot weather as don't want her legs to sweat. Today as it's showers she is out with liberal amounts of Zinc and Castor oil covering her legs.
My vert said that LV is something that is becoming increasing more common in general and is in his experiance more common in Arabs due to their finer Skin. Once I can finally (hopefully soon) get rid of the last few scabs I have a medicated shapoo to use on her, then a cream he has made up himself with an udder cream base that we are hoping may be able to succesfully soak into the skin and treat the actual LV - That's the plan anyway.
It's really very helpful to read everyone's experiances and what has and hasn't been succesful - I was really hoping to cure this filly before the Summer, as in June it will be a year she has had it, her owner previously treated it as Mudfever which really at best when it worked kept it under control. I found that the cream (either the streriod based or the Zinc & Castor oil) was at it;s most succesful when clingfilmed on and bandaged, I left them off a day here and there to let them air - but this was when the majority of scabs just wiped away, but as I say these last few just aren't complying
Alicia |
Alicia
     
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Sheena
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1810 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2008 : 4:27:42 PM
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I just wanted to say that i've had a bit of a breakthrough. Since posting yesterday last night and this morning I massaged 'heel to hoof' into the affected areas that wouldn't give up the last of the scabs. I wiped off everything this morning in which some scabs came away, and then while massaging in a new application all but one tiny patch of scab came off - so she is almost now scab free!! The 'heel to hoof' is 100% pure Lanolin with herbs that sooth and heel - it says it can be used as a barrier as well. I wonder if this is very similar to Aroma Heel??
I also think the Lanolin will help with her dry flaky skin, my vet seems to feel that if we can eliminate all the scabs, flakes and crudy skin only then can we really treat the condition itself which is laying just under the skin. May be worth trying for other too??
Alicia |
Alicia
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Edited by - Sheena on 08 Apr 2008 4:56:10 PM |
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arabmare18
Bronze Member
England
110 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2008 : 5:50:16 PM
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Hi
All three of mine had this last summer, it was so bad my gelding was very lame with it. I had to have my vet out every other day for four weeks and he would sedate them, scrub with hibiscrub to remove the scabs. They were all treated with antibiotics and steriod cream and on box rest for six weeks. Two cleard up eventually but Kabali still had sores on his legs so rather than continue with removing the scabs, and to be honest I think they'ed had enough of that, I just smothered his legs everyday with sudocrem, over the scabs and eventually it cleared up.
So this year I will cover all legs with sunblock and if I spy any scabs it will be good old sudocrem. I swear by it.
Jane |
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Sheena
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1810 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 12:03:44 PM
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Does anyone know of or have access to a paper or article on Leucocytoclastic Vasculitis?? I'd preferably like something fairly concise, just an explanation of what it is etc.
I've had a search on the net but can't find anything that I think will be suitable.
Many Thanks,
Alicia |
Alicia
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 08:13:07 AM
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The only thing I've seen written about it is in 'Essential Horse Health' by Kieran O'Brien. Unfortunately you'd have to buy the book, which is rather good and I can recommend it, but that's as much as I've been able to find so far from a reputed source, i.e. a vet.
If you google LV you'll also find some stuff, although most of it tend to be from forums like this one and people who have horses who suffer (mostly arabs). I tend to google it regularly to see if anything new comes along and if I find anything I'll share it here. |
West Sussex |
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Leucocytoclastic Vasculitis
