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Gwidmum
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
 Posted - 19 May 2007 : 12:44:16 PM
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HELLO SARAH T!! Thanks for the compliments on Mr G!! We have been in France for the last two weeks so havent been on line for a while so needed to catch up! Yes, we have definately bred D.G. to 'round' Crabbet type lines, with great success, one example is pictured on our web site. The one thing he always puts on his babies is long legs and a fabulous shoulder, plus the powerful rear end, he has, to come 'through' from behind!! HIS BABIES ALSO HAVE PLENTY OF TYPE AND PRETTY TOO. He has a strong blend of the 'Crabbet' movement lines,ie Rissla, plus the 'pretty' through Naseem and I figure is about 45% Crabbet breeding. We expect him to be a fabulous cross on Silvern Sceptre [Risalm's] sire's daughters to add height, elegance and refinement. His first two foals are here now, Denise Beken has a superb chestnut colt from her Hanoverian mare, hopefully named Pizazz!! marked like his sire and already spotted to be a Grand Prix potential candidate!
Kirsty had her elegant bay filly a couple of days ago but I have seen neither yet as we have been gone!! Hopefully the proud 'Grannies' will post piccies for us to see!! Anyway, you would be very welcome to come and visit Gwiddy, please email to my new address pecklet2@aol.com, dont know how to update on here!! |
GWIDMUM |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2007 : 12:53:21 PM
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I am real happy with your reply, as always Egbert
Lakota Cisco used to be with me, and he was one stallion i wanted to use, along with Wermut. Who i was very keen on. Still am. |
pagey |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2007 : 3:40:25 PM
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Egbert may I ask what you would think of a match between this mare: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sh+sabrina and my Tobago (whose pedigree you know )?
This lovely mare is now up for breeding lease, but her owner wanted to breed her to Tobago, and is rather hoping that whoever leases her will choose him too!
I'm interested cos you've said before that a Tobago/Carmargue cross could be 'golden' - and this mare has Carmargue's lines (White Lightning, Bey Shadow), but without actual Carmargue, if you see what I mean! Would the positive predictions still apply?
I don't have a photo of Sabrina, but here is the latest one of Tobago, taken last weekend by a nice breeder who came to see him (that's one of the Cliveden staff leading him, not me cos I can't keep up ):
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2007 : 01:42:48 AM
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Hi Kate!
Well there is no question in my mind that it would be a gorgeous cross, but don't think it would resemble a cross with Carmargue. Sabrina's dam line is to to Ferida, whose progeny frequently carried two specific dominants-first for incredible temperaments that once in a pedigree no matter the location-promised a rare sweetness; secondly incredible beauty...
Carmargue blood is that which carries both White Lightnings sire line to Naziri but a SECOND, supportive line to Naziri via Pale Shadow coupled with the mtDNA quality of Bint Helwa on the tail female via Gayza. That came through as a quasi dominant with Cam as he seemed to produce the beauty associated with that for several generations in one package whereas his full brothers and sisters didn't-nevermind the paternal half brothers (Elite). It is just a totally different look. The reason I think beauty can come forward in part with both Elite and Tobago....is that Padron carried several lines to Naziri as well. Great beauty...but not the same as the unique Carmargue beauty that comes from two sources-Naziri through Pale Shadow AND the Bint Helwa blood that comes through Velvet Shadow's tail female line. If you look at the old photos of Gayza and offspring-the look is definitely there and you can see it was refined by Naziri. (It is one of those things that makes me think that the rumors that Skowronek's sire, Ibrahim, could indeed be traced to the Abbas Pasha/Ali Pasha Sherif breeding program thus nicking remarkably with others from Ali Pasha Sherif stock).
Again, can't emphasize enough that the individual must look like the pedigree suggests. Think Sabrina's pedigree is absolutely superb and should be a great cross with Tobago as well as any number of the truly great that you find in the UK. Especially if Sabrina reflects her pedigree. (hope this has made sense) |
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gabriele ault
Gold Member
Wales
782 Posts |
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gabriele ault
Gold Member
Wales
782 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2007 : 08:01:20 AM
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Only me again, hit the post button by mistake - here we go again.
Hallo Egbert, this is still in the future - hopefully next year, but we would value your opinion about the following. We have a very nice Arastin x Eunette daughter, Eunastina, and want to breed her next year to one of our boys. Looking at them, both crosses could work very well. The one is our grey stallion Amdani (Maysoun x Martina Nareena), the other is our black Colt Tizaala (Mahaala x Tizzi Ouzu).
www.allbreedpedigree.com/amdani
www.allbreedpedigree.com/tizaala
www.allbreedpedigree.com/eunastina
I also would like to let you know that Eunette had an absolutely stunning filly. Can you remember, I asked you about this mating before and you very kindly answered.
Here she is:
Thanks
Gabriele
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 Gabriele
www.silversun-enterprises.webs.com |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2007 : 10:11:48 AM
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Hi Gabriele!
Looks like that filly turned out brilliantly!
Ok both stallions dam lines are Kuhailan, but I feel most comfortable with Tizaala's tail female to the incredible *Nejdme one of the Chicago World's Fair imports. There is a rare strength in that dam line that is thrilling-especially in the breeding barn...so I'd try him first. By the way-love both stallions pedigrees...but it is truly a matter of an easiness with the *Nejdme dam line as a great promise keeper that makes for that first selection! |
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gabriele ault
Gold Member
Wales
782 Posts |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2007 : 5:08:30 PM
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Thank you so much for the detailed analysis Egbert! I knew it would probably be complex, but didn't realize it would be that fascinating!
Just for comparison, maybe you could give your thoughts on the likely outcome of the match between Tobago and my friend Gudrun von Tevenar's mare Red House Karismma - by WSA Charismma out of Red House Karina by Ibn Estasha x Karamea (Dancing Spark x Shamasque). She is on allbreeds - for some reason I couldn't get the code to come up.
This one of course does have actual Carmargue, as well as egyptian and golden-cross lines, and English tail-female. She's officially Keheileh Rodanieh but totally 'Seglawi' in appearance (if I've understood all my lessons correctly) - a small, extremely fine and delicate grey mare; very pretty and very sweet-natured and affectionate.
RH Karismma is in foal to Tobago...and if this baby lives up to her owner's expectations, she has other mares with Carmargue and Golden Cross lines waiting to breed to him next year... |
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karen d
Gold Member
United Kingdom
847 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 10:23:11 PM
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Fao EGBERT
hi
sorry to but in but barbaria suggested i contact egbert through this thread. i would like some info about my mares and colt and what you might think of the marriages between them!!
my first mare is susanna rose by sky bandolier out of kathryn rose.
my second mare is la tifa by prince of crowns out of mantillas pride
my third mare is athena by tr viktor out of pjatakova.
my colt is by edeon out of calamintha.
any info and thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
many thanks |
www.gkjarabians.co.uk |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
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karen d
Gold Member
United Kingdom
847 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2007 : 12:20:58 AM
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Originally posted by katefox1812Thank you so much for the detailed analysis Egbert! I knew it would probably be complex, but didn't realize it would be that fascinating! Just for comparison, maybe you could give your thoughts on the likely outcome of the match between Tobago and my friend Gudrun von Tevenar's mare Red House Karismma - by WSA Charismma out of Red House Karina by Ibn Estasha x Karamea (Dancing Spark x Shamasque). She is on allbreeds - for some reason I couldn't get the code to come up. This one of course does have actual Carmargue, as well as egyptian and golden-cross lines, and English tail-female. She's officially Keheileh Rodanieh but totally 'Seglawi' in appearance (if I've understood all my lessons correctly ) - a small, extremely fine and delicate grey mare; very pretty and very sweet-natured and affectionate. RH Karismma is in foal to Tobago...and if this baby lives up to her owner's expectations, she has other mares with Carmargue and Golden Cross lines waiting to breed to him next year...
The difference you will see from the above...is in the eye which will be lower set, more round and extremely expressive but soft...If you have a gray it will be a big eye; other colors will be average to largish...but it is that soft quality-sweetness that radiates through.
Short backed, beautiful, affectionate, shapely neck, set on high and superb action should be the resulting foal. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2007 : 12:56:08 AM
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Anne,
There has to be a place in horse heaven for you! Thank you so much. Posting it like that is such a help!
Karen,
Calimeer must be extra elegant, a tad gangly and longish (though the Shaklan blood may have shortened his back considerably) in the back but, depending on color, very smooth and ultra refined-the gangly part is simply a matter of maturity. You think he is beautiful now-when he is 12, he will be unimaginably beautiful compared to how he looks now.
What a WONDERFUL pedigree! His sire line is to Ilderim via Eldon and a host of great stallions renowned for beauty but late maturing. His dam line is to the Ali Pasha Sherif mare Sobha via the most beautiful Silver Fire...one of the all time great mares. With that pedigree anything he is bred to should be extremely comely, elegant and exhibit great quality but definitely late to mature.
With Athena, dam line to Emese, said to be Seglawi, who should be definitely longish in the back and that maybe a bit difficult to overcome as she has French blood on the distaff side geared to racing, of the pedigree but over all, think it would be a good cross with the elegance transmitted, a sweetness of demeanor, very smooth bodied, expressive eyes, tremendous action, elegantly lanky and courageous enough to charge a smoke belching dragon cum freight train.
His cross with La Tifa should be boggling. The result should be a horse you would never, ever part with because it will be superb over all and define BLOODSTOCK! Pure in the strain Hamdani Simri, very pretty from birth...this should be a very unusual possibly quite exotic baby. Another description is ultra CLASSY! (remembering that his dam line to Sobha passes through Silver Sheen-the most winningest British National Champion ever! Think she won 6 times!)
Oh boy! This is one of those times that knowing the colors of sire and dam really helps. Susanna-Rose's baby is one of those that should be almost as elegant as the others but if possible she will be the most extraordinary mover and more robust looking. Sire line to Mlech 1 via Trypolis....so there is a speed factor as well. A tough, strong and beautiful baby thanks to the Rodania tail female, she will be competitive undersaddle and in the showring but in terms of halter, you may not want to take her out til she is older as she will take the longest to mature.
All the offspring should take awhile to mature as the Polish blood is sometimes quite tricky. I've a Milordka dam line mare by an English bred stallion. She was gorgeous as a baby but is only now coming into her beauty as a 5 year old!
Karen, you have a very fun group with a lot of potential...
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Edited by - Egbert on 03 Jun 2007 11:56:32 PM |
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karen d
Gold Member
United Kingdom
847 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2007 : 10:02:12 PM
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Hi Karen,
Have added some info to the post above. My apologies...the idea of this thread is to show what damlines/tail female bring to the pedigree...and I forgot to put them in along with the sire lines. Have edited. |
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mouse
Silver Member
United Kingdom
309 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 06:50:48 AM
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Hi Egbert
I hope you don't mind me asking for some of your time - but here goes. I have put my mare in foal to a non Arab this year. If I were to breed from her again in the future and went for a pure bred, I was wondering what you would think suitable from her bloodlines? She is bred as follows:
www.allbreedpedigree.com/tyga+lilli
Many thanks in advance for your help
Marie
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South Norfolk/Suffolk border |
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gabriele ault
Gold Member
Wales
782 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
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kate b
Gold Member
Wales
1418 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2007 : 11:24:59 AM
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Egbert,
I wonder if I may ask you for your time also! I have a yearling filly, and would love to hear your opinions as to which lines would suit her best if and when I decide to breed.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lva+delilah
A picture of her:
I am not a huge fan of lots of white, so wouldnt particularly looking for a stallion to emphasise and pass them on to the resulting foal. No offence to people who love it!! I adore her for who she is, not her colour or markings!
Kate |
      
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rosyw
Platinum Member
England
3756 Posts |
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Alexia
New Member
England
21 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 10:19:50 PM
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Hi Egbert, I have enjoyed many of these posts although I have to admit to skimming every so often due to lack of time so I cannot be certain I have not missed a lot too.
I was curious to know how far you view the tail female line as remaining significant without re-inforcement over the generations. While it seems to me that some families do have traits that remain evident over many generations, I also think that our obsession with tail female and male lines sometimes obscures the very important lines that exist in the middle of pedigrees just because they failed to leave a tail female or male line of descent.
Having said all that my own 100% Crabbet mare traces to Dajania Or.Ar. in the tail female and is classic Crabbet "N" line, or at least classic Skowronek x "N" line, but then she does have multiple lines to Naseem and Naxina as well as other combinations of Skowonek and "N" lines in addition to her tail female.
Then again she has important lines in the middle of her pedigree which are also evident in specific traits that are not owed predominantly to her tail female or her tail male line to Mesaoud /Zobeyni Or.Ar. Queen of Sheba Or.Ar. and Azrek Or.Ar. are lines frequently underestimated because Azrek does not survive in tail male line at all and the Queen of Sheba tail female is extremely rare.
Now this was meant to be a question and meant to be short! I have got launched - this is why I do not trust myself to post very often!! Alexia |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 10:35:04 AM
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Originally posted by kate bEgbert, I wonder if I may ask you for your time also! I have a yearling filly, and would love to hear your opinions as to which lines would suit her best if and when I decide to breed. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lva+delilahA picture of her: Delilah I am not a huge fan of lots of white, so wouldnt particularly looking for a stallion to emphasise and pass them on to the resulting foal. No offence to people who love it!! I adore her for who she is, not her colour or markings! Kate
Kate,
That is one of the most sophisticated pedigrees I've ever seen! Very Kuhailan as both sire and dam are Kuhailan...Dam Kuhailan Rodania. Sire line to Nazeer.
I would be inclined to look for a stallion that is Seglawi many of whom we have discussed here...but carefully study what you like. Look at the stallions that appeal to you most. Seglawi line stallions go back usually to one of four or five different dam lines: Bint Helwa, Milordka, Basilisk, Zulima, Wadduda. If you find several stallions, run their pedigrees and the ones going back to those dam lines are the ones you will study more closely. You have such a versatile pedigree, you can go in a half dozen different directions and have a great result. |
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Tail Female Line....?
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