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paul_brown_arabs
Silver Member
252 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 10:23:38 AM
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thank you very much egburt,
a mine of knowledge to someone who knows little.
your correct about the painting - the artist caught her resting a back leg, a proper picture would be better but it certainly does dips rather than more horizontal from croup to tail. I guess this is more of what we look for in racing lines as opposed to showing, but im struggling to upload betetr pictures from a harddrive, i'll try later.
The breeding suggestions are well taken - i have a little time to decide what to do.
thanks again
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Paul |
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Em
Silver Member
England
349 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 11:29:23 AM
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I have watched this thread with such interest your knowledge is amazing!
I was wondering if you have time if you can shed any light on my little mare’s pedigree?
Her dam is Gayaza by Gold Rex/Gaea
Her sire Ibn Amashah by Amaziah Shah/Indians Eastern Enchantress
Emily |
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paul_brown_arabs
Silver Member
252 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 11:30:50 PM
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success zakzak - looking very wooly at the moment
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Paul |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 11:47:18 PM
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She looks absolutely lovely, Paul
Anne |
     
I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2007 : 9:03:48 PM
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Elizabeth,
Several days ago I wrote you a long bit about your Silvern Scepris-apparently it never posted!
So will try again: I believe I knew your boy as a yearling. He was extraordinarily beautiful showing great promise as an athlete as well-the perfect 'do it all', versatile Arabian. Silvern Sceptre, his sire is Duchess of Rutland breeding. Sire, Silvern Idyll being straight Crabbet bred by the near legendary Rosemary Archer (few can breed straight Crabbets as well as she does given the oh so small gene pool of straights available), whilst Sceptre's dam is Crabbet/old English...Silvern Circlet by Bright Crown. Bright Crown was a beautiful gray by Bright Shadow, a stallion that Cecil Covey said had the kindest temperament on earth and would pass it along for up to 5 generations, i.e., the kindness gene was so dominant that it would emerge 5 generations later...I think actually more than that, it was so strong. Certainly his son Bright Crown was amongst the kindest, sweetest, most loving of horses to ever exist!!
Bright Crown was out of Crowning Glory by Mikeno. So Crown was a Hamdani Simri tracing back to Sobha...All around a tremendous riding horse of inestimable sweetness and love.
Sceptre's dam, Silver Circlet, a beautiful mare, was considered by even the Duchess to be one of her very best broodmatrons as she was the dam of such well known youngsters as, Silvernesta, Autumn Idyll, and Circlet's Pride as well as Sceptre.
Scepris's dam, the pure Crabbet Rislina out of Palmyra traces back Rodania via Rissla by *Berk renowned for conferring great action for generations.
So your boy is a Kuhailan Rodania by strain of tremendous beauty, exceptional kindness and terrific action. If you wanted a FUN horse to own...you could not do better than Silvern Scepris . And by the way, you should do very very well wherever you show him!
Mr. Brown,
Your Zakzak is as expected-and defines LOVELY!
Emily,
Oh wow! Bet you your girl stands out in a crowd! Has a totally LOOK AT ME! I AM THE QUEEN OF THE HERD!look about her. She adores you and anyone who comes to see her willing to pay appropriate homage! Bet you have done some winning with her whether in hand or ridden, too!
The MAJOR character in her pedigree is the mischieveous Roxan who absolutely adored a crowd and stole the show wherever he appeared. Of course for years it was as the WHITE HORSE WHISKEY horse that so many came to know him. According to the late Pat Coward, his owner, one day while filming a commercial on a beach in Scotland, the (new) director of horse epics, who thought he was Cecil B Demille, got a bit carried away. 36 takes later he was still trying for something no one understood, and Roxan, who had hit his mark on each occasion, finally said, "!@#$%^&!!! this!" and without missing a beat spun around and departed in the opposite direction at full gallop and was out of sight within two heartbeats. Well of course, everyone scrambled to vehicles and the hunt was on. 10 miles down the road, three heart attacks and assorted apoplexy's later the star, Roxan, was found beside an ice cream truck surrounded by a couple of dozen school children feeding him ice cream cones! Roxan is Gayaza's maternal grandsire.
Your girl's dam line is virtually identical to Carmargue's and thus she is a Seglawi Jedran tracing to the courageous Ali Pasha Sherif mare, Bint Helwa imported by the Blunts.
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Edited by - Egbert on 12 Jan 2007 9:40:08 PM |
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 10:06:17 AM
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Thank you Egbert for your kind words and wisdom.
He is a really beautiful boy and he is extremely kind and fun (and cheeky!!) I will post some pics of him now for you later. |
  
London/Essex Border |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 6:54:54 PM
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Elizabeth,
Thank you so much! Can't wait to see those pictures!
You know, one thing I'd meant to add is that the Peck's discovery of Sceptre, and breeding of Scepris is not an accident. Jean and Dave seem to have a virtual 6th sense about great bloodstock...they've consistently selected great mares and their stallions have been measurably influential to British breeding programs.
My one regret is that the Sceptre blood never made it to the US. Hopefully one of his sons (which is the one that won the WAHO award last year or the year before?)/grandsons will arrive one way or another. Would love to see a combo of Sceptre, Carmargue on the sire line combined with the blood of Padron via either Psyche or Magnum Psyche plus Maleik El Kheil's. Wouldn't that make for a stupendous cross? Preferably with a tail female like that of Gayaza's...Sounds like a dream doesn't it? I've a vision of an awesomely beautiful powerhouse that would knock people socks off....Hmmmmm. To win regularly in the US there is a combo of lines that always work...Sire line either Nazeer or Skowronek on dam lines of Milordka, Bint Helwa, Rodania (actually the biggest dam line/TF winner internationally)...Obviously they have to have the requisite beauty and athletic ability....One can breed these horse on genes alone and the results would be a disaster. The breeding candidates have to be beautiful...the pedigree/gene lineup...might just give the horse the edge in the showring....It simply could be because those lines can stay alert long enough to catch the judge's interest! |
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 7:25:39 PM
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Here is Andre for you Egbert, Andre's full brother (who won the WAHO trophy) is PHA Silvern Risalm. |
London/Essex Border |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 7:55:06 PM
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For Egbert I know  but just wanted to say Elizabeth...he is gorgeous!!
Egbert I loved the story about the ice cream cones  |
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 8:42:30 PM
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| Thanks Fee - he is my pride and joy; my family think I've gone mad because I'm so obsessed - that's arabitis for you though!!! |
London/Essex Border |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 09:14:35 AM
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Yes, "Andre"! I never realized he was Risalm's full brother. Wow! No wonder he is so awesome. You truly have been blessed with an incredible horse. PLEASE keep us posted-especially about your shows and what classes you will be showing him in!
PS Not mad..."Arabitus" is just another word for "JOY".
Fee...One of the 'joys' are all the great stories that are passed along over the years...Thank you! It is one of my favorites, too! |
Edited by - Egbert on 15 Jan 2007 08:21:40 AM |
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Em
Silver Member
England
349 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 08:27:05 AM
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Hi Egbert.
Many Thanks for the reply on my Mare.
You are very right about her! She is very much the boss and has this look at me about her all the time! She is the queen of the stable yard. She also does adore me greatly she is a very special to me as she is/has been my best friend as well as a great horse that has introduced me to the arabian world giving me a lot of experience and taught me how to read a arabs mind! It is all down to her that gave me the knowledge and experience that enable me to break Silvern Sheena under saddle and compete her.
I am very lucky to have two very special arabs.
Thank you again for the information you have shared - truly amazing!
Emily
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 08:42:10 AM
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| Thank you Egbert - of course I will keep you posted!! |
London/Essex Border |
Edited by - Silvern_Scepris on 15 Jan 2007 10:42:30 AM |
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Indalo
Silver Member
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 11:00:26 AM
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| Aawww Indalo, what a lovely boy he is!! |
London/Essex Border |
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 11:36:29 PM
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Elizabeth,
Will be looking forward to all of your news!
Emily,
Thank you so much. Having feedback is so helpful to understanding when we are on the right track and I think it tends to show that KNOWING a pedigree well really helps to predict outcomes-that breeding great Arabians is not an accident.
Indalo, WOW! Look at that hip and those legs! But then I would expect such excellence to come through in spades with that pedigree. Beyond a doubt this is a guy who should prove to be an outstanding ridden animal. Buy he also looks as though he is going to do well in hand...Those lines become especially more beautiful over time and he has an terrific start now! Thank you so much for posting his photo. His dam's sire consistenly seems to guarantee a rare elegance...What color is going to be chestnut or gray?
Sazzlepants!
Delighted to take a look! Rushmere's Persian Prelude is of the Kuhailan Dajania strain and sire line is to Mahruss via *Rissalix. Mahruss was one of Ali Pasha Sherif's horses so the quality is unmistakable. *Rissalix confers great action via his dam's sire, *Berk who traces to the great Azrek whose action has to be a dominant in just any pedigree though it seems most powerful when appearing on the dam line.
Rushmere's Persian Prelude dam line is to Dajania...so if you have a male of the cross, whatever the dam was, the baby has to be prettier.
By the way, if I recall properly, Rushmere's Persian Prelude's breeder, Mrs. Pounds was a dedicated breeder whose horses were renowned for breeding excellent ridden animals and did well in hand, as well.
Would love to know what Harvard's dam's breeding was, i.e. breed? Who and what was Wheelers Lapwing? TB? Pony?
Ramak Gold has to be a very lovely Kuhailan strain stallion who steadily becomes more beautiful with age...Eyes should be enlarging steadily and is one of those who probably is 10 times more beautiful now than he was at 4 years of age. IF, however, he is still growing...You might want to have your vet check him out. However, his tail female line traces through a mare, Risira that Lady Wentworth was absolutely DESPERATE to have returned to her. By Naziri and out of Risslina
owned by Mrs. E.M. Murray (Mrs. Bowring's mother and Mrs. Caroline Murray's mother in law), this mare was pure magic with whomever she was bred. I've had the privilege of reading the ANNUAL letters to Mrs. Murray from Lady Wentworth begging that should Mrs. Murray ever want to sell to PLEASE give Lady W first refusal. So I've no doubt whatsoever that the quality of Remak Gold is absolutely boggling and someone is scratching their heads wondering why this superb creature was ever gelded. And of course the answer is slow maturation. Also besides the beauty of the dam line, it is also renowned for superb action.
Would love to see pictures of your boys. Methinks you have two gorgeous geldings that do very very well in the showring.
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 12:18:43 AM
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| Hi Egbert,I have a lovely gelding called Rugastazi(sire Ruger AMW(BR)AHSB XIX(Tallyen El Jamaal(BR)/He Jiajna(BR)Dam Princess Nazerine Ahsb xx(Zibak/Faraletta).I would love to know more about his breeding,and would be very grateful if you could give me any information regarding him,thanks susan |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 08:24:54 AM
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Susan,
That is quite a pedigree-especially for the sire, Ruger. Basically and possibly deliberately Ruger is line bred to Nazeer...with doublings of Aswan on the dam's side so he has to be a pretty if not a classically gorgeous stallion; there is the Nazeer son Talal on the sire's side and Talal conferred outstanding limbs of enormous strength. The stories are that he raced for many years in the UK til he was 10 or so and never had so much as a hiccup....he was that sound! And then his sire line is to Nazeer via two extraordinary stallions, Shaikh al Badi and Ali Jamaal! So beauty is a plus. Temperament for Ruger would be fairly hot and his action should be breathtaking.
Through the dam, Princess Nazerine, who must have been a very Crabbet looking, a good athlete, good solid bone and conformation also has something else if she is a true representative of her pedigree...a superb temperament...Her dam line goes back to the Blunt's Egyptian acquisiton Ferida and it is from her that great temperaments come forward, generation after generation, think Ferda, Fejr and even Bright Shadow!
So Susan, your boy must be very very pretty if not a stunning youngster, a terrific athlete with a temperament to die for. Would love to see a picture of him as well as his sire and dam if you can post them! |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 1:36:14 PM
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WOW! Indalo, I love your little boy, he's stunning
Egbert I wondered if there was anything interesting in my boys pedigree? I know he's Crabbet,but I just wondered?...
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/marbon+mansour
This is the best thread for ages! I'm really looking forward to your talk at AL WAHA.There is something I noticed while going back through his pedigree that I would like to ask you about when I see you. |
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 1:56:36 PM
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| Hi, when is the talk at Al Waha? I must have missed that thread!! |
London/Essex Border |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 10:59:34 PM
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Hi Egbert,thank you so much for that,Stazi is a stunning boy with a sweet temperamenthe is very intelligent and lovable
this is stazi
and this is his mum, sorry about the picture
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www.blackislearabians.com
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Topic |
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Tail Female Line....?
