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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 2:50:26 PM
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Dont worry, I know. Matini is 99,32% crabbet thats it.I have 3 100% crabbet, Marbon Mead, Silver Zara Saint and Moulton Millennium.
Regards Gunni. |
Edited by - gu-ku-vi on 20 Dec 2006 2:51:10 PM |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 11:46:16 AM
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Gunni,
After thinking about it awhile,this should be noted in fairness to you and your wonderful horses: Since there is not any official definition of Crabbet,i.e., no official organ for the breed in any country has defined what exactly constitutes 'straight Crabbet', perhaps it should be that since Algol was used at Crabbet via Dargee and was Prince of Wales bred, it would not be entirely out of line to call Martini 'straight Crabbet with Algol'....Sort of like back in '85 they would call a Crabbet Arabian as straight Crabbet with El Shaklan or Straight Crabbet with Dargee. Now they just include Dargeee as part of the program. It does get a bit confusing. But your Crabbet horses are very important and I just hope more and more sC breeders come to appreciate just how important the blood you create is now and in the future! |
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 3:52:27 PM
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Yeah, me and Diane has to make some, hopefully, wonderfull foals for the future.I have called Martini Crabbet/ Old English, as that 0,68% that is not Crabbet deffently is Old/English as it is the line to Algol.
As you know most of the 100% crabbets also are GSB, but not Mead as she goes back to Dafina.You really have to be aware of it, when you deal with this stuff and sometimes it is so difficult to explain to people.
Thank you so much for your interest and kind words of my horses, it warms.
Gunni. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 9:25:41 PM
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I think the thing that has to be remembered is that Crabbet brought forth to the UK and the rest of the world not just beautiful but incredibly RELIABLE blood-which is why, imho, the vast majority of show winners in the UK, Europe, the ME, the Americas, Australia-trace to Crabbet Park! As a matter of fact, internationally as a whole the majority (slim but still leading in some of the more estoteric regions) of show winners trace in dam line to Crabbet, as well as in the sire line! The only major competitor being Kuhailan Haifi that does not carry some element of Crabbet!) Whatever the issue with SCID, Gunni, your horses are extraordinarily important to Crabbet breeders and hopefully be utilized to the fullest.
Just as an aside, those planning on breeding next year would love to see some of those horses and how you are making your decisions, i.e., what is that stallion bringing to your mare? What are you hoping to have? Accomplish? Think it could be quite fun and an opportunity to learn what to look for on paper ALWAYS remembering it is what you see in front of you that is most important of all. |
Edited by - Egbert on 21 Dec 2006 9:31:06 PM |
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kofihorse
Bronze Member
241 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 7:19:10 PM
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| Egbert - some time ago on this thread, you commented on my horse MAS Khan El Ajuz and mentioned that he is descended from "the desert import" Mahawilyah (sp?)so I wondered if you could tell me any more about this horse? |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2006 : 06:28:33 AM
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Kofi,
That was far enough back I can't remember how much I put down but here is the quote directly from Gazder's
THE ARAB HORSE FAMILIES OF GREAT BRITAIN: Mahawiliyah was a grey keheileh, foaled in 1935 and bred by Abdul Kadim Jabbar, Sheikh of Ali Yisar. Her sire was a managi stallion of Haji Fayadh, Sheikh of the Abu Amer Yusufijah. She was imported to England about 1939 and was owned by J. Spence and J.C. Sword successively. More later |
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2006 : 08:28:43 AM
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What I like so much in the Crabbet and OE is the topline and the angulation of the hindquarters.
I havenīt desided yet what to do, it depends on so many things.First of all I havenīt seen the stallions in flesh and pictures nowadays sometimes only shows heads.
The foal I had out of Silver Zara Saint was lovely with a long arched neck and good legs, head could have been a little better, but who knows, perhaps it has only need a little more time, we will never know.
Thatīs the dam thing, that my stallion suits so well to the mares, except of the SCID.
I can hope for a clear colt out of Mead, but have to wait and see of course.
I wish you a Merry Christmas.
Gunni. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2006 : 10:10:07 AM
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Gunni,
Yes, the angulation of the hind quarters is phenomenal...but overall there is NOTHING that compares with the overall consistent conformation of the Crabbets-even the homliest can move.
Try to make a trip over to see them sometime in March, if possible. Think you will be very impressed with all the possible choices. Don't give up on your boy if you can avoid it. Am wondering if there isn't an in utero test one can run to see if the baby being carried isn't an SCID foal...Wouldn't it be worth looking into? Equine amniocentisis? Will ask my vet if anything is being done along those lines....
Kofi,
Have more info...am just cross checking some facts...more soon.
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 10:35:27 AM
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Hi Kofi,
The only thing more that I could find out was that she curiously was bred in and acquired from a Sheikh who was located living in the town of Hillah on the Euphrates, i.e., she comes from tribes located in Iraq, south of Baghdad. Apparently the little horses from which she descends came to be appreciated during WWI by the British officers serving in Iraq, for their beauty and toughness. What I found interesting is the way Peter Upton portrays her in his book, THE ARAB HORSE. Mahawiliyah is depicted as a very Kuhailan looking grey mare, delicate of head-great width between her eyes as well as excellent depth, fine head but so-so body with her best features being a nicely laid back shoulder and short back-overall the conformation quite good but could do with more strength. The head suggests a wonderful intelligence and the body is that of a horse that 'can do' nearly anything asked of it. Am assuming that would also describe your horse Kofi?
Hope everyone has had a terrific Christmas, Boxing Day and looking forward to a GREAT New Year! |
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kofihorse
Bronze Member
241 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 11:17:35 AM
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Will try to put up a pic of Khan, Egbert.
edited to make photo work  |
Edited by - NPA Arabians on 27 Dec 2006 3:44:35 PM |
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kofihorse
Bronze Member
241 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 11:30:32 AM
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Sorry, I have managed the link but don't know what to do to make it appear on this page!
Thanks for that information,Egbert,I would say that Khan (Crystal Raj x Shaleemah Star)does take after his "tail female" in most repects. He is stronger and sturdier when you see him in the flesh than he appears in the picture, curiously,in the head shots I have of him, his head seems bigger than it really is! He has a shorter head and a smaller muzzle than Kofi did (Kofi's tail female line was to Bint Nura). He is a lovely riding horse, really makes you feel that you are floating on air and has a wonderful canter with lots of stamina - I think he would be a great endurance horse. He has a very, very kind and sensible nature.He is small, just over 14.1
The reason I was asking about Mahawiliyah is that there must have been a good reason why she was imported for breeding.What do you suppose Mr Spence and Mr Sword were looking for? She doesn't seem to have had many foals, according to allbreeds.I'm looking on there to see if I can find more of her descendants. |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 11:56:51 AM
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Kofi,
The only thing misssing is the first square bracket - try adding that and the photo should appear in your post. He's a very nice looking fellow, isn't he
Anne
Ok - NPA Arabians sorted it for you - thanks mod! |
     
I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
Edited by - Anfi on 27 Dec 2006 4:13:28 PM |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 12:04:59 PM
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Rosemary your boy is lovely  I hope you get the pic up. We really must try to meet up at a ride in 07.
Hope you had a great Christmas too Egbert and here's to health and happiness in 2007 to all. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 10:44:57 PM
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Hi Kofi,
The early British importers were very very careful about what was brought over to the UK in those years...They simply had to be outstanding or it would have been like bringing coals to Newcastle. And when you look at Mahawiliyah's breeding history-7 purebred foals, 2 of which bred on-both mares, there were such gaps in her breeding history-2 to 3 years between the birth of a purebred that I suspect she was used to create outstanding crossbreds/eventing type horses. Average mares today couldn't go 2-3 years without having a foal-too many breeding problems to overcome even today such a gap is rare UNLESS of course, the mare is being bred and having foals fairly regularly. Her last foal was as an 18 year old, a gelding named Quiz by Sitaab (Yassb x Sita by the Skowronek son, Revenge). Considering she was never owned and promoted by one of the major breeders and she was never bred to any of the greats, it is a measure of her tremendous quality that Mahawilyah bred on at all.
Beautiful boy, by the way! Thank you for posting and perservering in getting Khan's picture up! He shows a lot of quality and lovely overall balance and structure!
Edited to add: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you Fee! Am having a ball with the thread you created! Thank you! And you too Anne, thank you for helping post the picture!
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Edited by - Egbert on 27 Dec 2006 10:49:36 PM |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 12:48:26 PM
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Talking of coals to newcastle, do you think this has happened here now ? while I welcome good imported blood I have seen a lot of Imports that I think would do more harm than good to the breed  |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 2:11:51 PM
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| Good point Lynda. There have been a lot of imports into the UK that are superfluous and what would be wonderful is to see the old lines resurrected and used a tad more imaginatively. It is way too easy to go with the latest fads forgetting what is critical to good breeding...a sort of an anachronism when it comes to the UK...It would be preferable to see the old lines being blended with the recent imports BUT keeping the British blood as the dominant in any breeding UK breeding program. There are several programs in the UK, like Al Waha's that breeds three groups...the straight Russian (which is a blend of Polish, Egyptian, French and UK), the mixed Russian/Crabbet and the predominately Crabbet lineage. In this way great horses are created and perpetuated that are wholly identified with the UK. What is often hard to remember is that the UK's foremost breeder of the last century, if not the world's, Lady Wentworth noted that after 3 generations, one had to outcross the blood....and bring it back into the program basically refreshed. |
Edited by - Egbert on 28 Dec 2006 2:17:42 PM |
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kofihorse
Bronze Member
241 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 8:42:21 PM
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Thank you very much for the information, Egbert and for the nice words about my boy! I am just curious about his bloodlines because he was kept, and registered(is that the correct word?) as a stallion until he was about 5 or so although I understand he was never used.So presumably his original owners thought he would be of value as a sire and I just wondered why.Maybe there aren't many around who are tail female to Mahawiliyah or something.
Hello Fee! You never know, we might just introduce Po and Khan at a ride this year if I get up the courage to drive us over your way! |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 08:16:35 AM
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Kofi,
I would guess that with his lovely temperament, looks and athletic ability...they were looking to use him and probably couldn't for whatever reason...As a general rule, a horse isn't kept intact that long if the plans were otherwise. Have you thought about finding the original owners and asking them? Find out what they had in mind? Surely the AHS could help you track them down?
Happy New Year, EVERYONE! |
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paul_brown_arabs
Silver Member
252 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 4:45:22 PM
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an interesting thread so looked up my broodmare zakzak.
I'm not a showing/breeding person but the allbreed website (if correct?) goes as far back as "GHAZIEH" ? doesnt mean anything to me - if anyone can shed any light or go back further would be interested.
I'm looking to loan her out this season as i cant breed any more this year and would like to give as much info as possible on her parentage.
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Paul |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
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paul_brown_arabs
Silver Member
252 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 7:40:36 PM
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| thank you ann - the pics are great - i'll look through rest of thread |
Paul |
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paul_brown_arabs
Silver Member
252 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 8:59:17 PM
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taken some while to work through the thread - fascinating - the allbeed website is great especially the photographic records
egburt - if you could suggest a good/appropriate sire line to look for for zakzak would much appreciate it -
I've bred from her by our french racing/endurance stallion (see attached its a very good likeness of her and the foal) but would like her to breed from showing lines also when she goes out on loan.
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Paul |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 1:00:24 PM
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Hi Paul,
Thank you for presenting such a lovely mare! What fun. With that pedigree I'd be very inclined to find which horse in it you favor most and breed towards it.
Conversely, you can breed her to just about anything and have a fabulous result...her pedigree is that nice. There are so many exciting halter/performance stallions out there that the sky's the limit! For example Emiliusz standing in Sweden this year, LVA Maximus, any Mike Brooks' stallions (currently with Al Waha and Auchmillan studs- from which any stallion would be a potentially outstanding sire), the Pecks'Gwydion...All those should give you something wonderful to consider closely.
In other words Skowronek and Nazeer sire lines with perhaps a slight emphasis on Nazeer as it looks like she has an excellent hip BUT might need a more level croup. PLease keep us posted! She sounds a real delight! Think she will have wonderful babies for your clients!
FYI Everyone: Do be careful of All Breeds as the pedigrees can OFTEN have incorrect info. I've just learned that those who create model horses have set up 'pedigree' bases for them on All Breeds and that might be part of the confusion as well. Everytime I use it I double check against the US Registry's Arabian Horse Database.
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Edited by - Egbert on 04 Jan 2007 11:30:26 PM |
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 09:44:04 AM
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Hi Egbert,
Sorry to butt in, but would you be able to tell me more about my boy's breeding please?
Silvern Scepris (Silvern Sceptre x Rislina)
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pha+silvern+scepris
He is bright chestnut and 13 years old. I've had him since April last year. I'm hoping to do some showing with him this year.
Many thanks
Elizabeth 
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London/Essex Border |
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Kash
Platinum Member
England
3777 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 10:08:27 AM
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Hi Egbert,
Sorry I can't find a contact email for you - would you please be able to email me on tally_h0@hotmail.com (that's a zero in the h0)?
Many thanks,
Lauren. |
      
Photographs by Emma Maxwell and Peter Grant |
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Topic |
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Tail Female Line....?
