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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 5:34:26 PM
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Thanks Egbert. Unfortunately Hoatzin is no longer with us but three of his daughters have been retained by my friend for breeding. One os Hoatzin x Rhia and the other two are Hoatzin x Shamouna (pedigree on all breeds)
Rhia is still going string but all being well will have her last foal next year by Red Shadow.
Any information you provide is always interesting as I have NO idea about the breed.
No doubt in the future I will be asking many more questions and hope to come and see you if you hold the proposed seminar day |
   
Paidir dóibhsean le fiántas ina gcroíthe acu, atá coinnithe i gcaighin |
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Tonim
Silver Member
United Kingdom
430 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 10:05:08 PM
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| Thank you Egbert for looking at Hartleys pedigree for me, you are quite right in your description of him especially about himbeing a peacock! He always has to show off and be the centre of attention! |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 11:25:33 AM
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Hi Cinders!
Have a hunch your girl is especially lovely with a smooth body, gorgeous head, big eye, nice compact body, excellent action and a capacity to bond and love that is extraordinary. Would love to see you breed her to one straight Egyptian of major interest to me, Hafid Jamil....
As for other lines...are you interested in going outside straight Egyptians? There are a number of fun horses to which you could breed her as she is Seglawi...Her daughters will always be superior to her sons and that is the way you should breed her...as if you were breeding FOR a top notch stallion. Two that fit that bill, besides the aforementioned Hafid Jamil, in particular are Azim Ibn Alidaar or Classic Maidan and I'd tend to lean ever so slightly towards Maidan as I think his blood-the double Kaisoon would be stunning with your girl. Also am very interested in what the half Egyptian, Emiliusz, standing in Swedan, might do as he is by Laheeb that carries both Ibn Halima and Moniet El Nefous and is a Seglawi tracing back to the best of the Polish E lines... Of course the most important 'read' for any breeder...is one's gut reaction-in the end, that is what I go with.
Hi Anne, Yes, do you know a great Bint Helwa stallion? I am not a stickler for breeding bint Helwa to bint Helwa...However breeding Seglawi to Seglawi can be very interesting and tends to reinforce the strain's qualities. Tommy's stallion looks very interesting indeed...initially would have thought him way too fiery with all the Ruminajah Ali and *Morafic but the El Shaklan tends to mitigate that for some unfathomable reason. Dam line looks to be excellent going back to Rodania as well with some solidly excellent Crabbet and old English lines. Do you have any pictures Mr. Husebye?
Lindsay, Look forward to meeting you at the seminar, too! There are two Red Shadows listed...Do you know which one it is?
Tonim...Have this feeling your Hartley is very very very intelligent!
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Edited by - Egbert on 31 Oct 2006 11:30:12 AM |
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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 3:10:19 PM
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| Our Red Shadow is Silver Domino x Sea Gem born in 1994 |
Paidir dóibhsean le fiántas ina gcroíthe acu, atá coinnithe i gcaighin |
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TommyH
Bronze Member
Norway
89 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 6:16:36 PM
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Dear Egbert,
Unfortunatly Sidaqa is NOT my stallion but Emma Maxwell's horse, seen and bought in South Africa. He is well known as an exciting prospect combining as you say both Ruminaja Ali and Morafic with El Shaklan and Crabbet - Old english on the damside. Far to little used in my opinion but has sired excellent offspring anyway!
Standing at the moment in Belgium and pictures/video can be seen at http://www.schoukenstrainingcenter.com/ |
Tommy Husebye
Tenaya Araber - Norway
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 9:41:28 PM
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Hi Tommy!
Really like the looks of your stallion as well and the dam line is solid and would be an excellent cross if not spectacular with Anne's mare. It looks as though she has some excellent blood a little closer than those available in the UK!
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 10:42:09 PM
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Hi Tommy,
Thanks and very nice to 'see' you again online
That is indeed an excellent damline in spite of the slightly strange names on some of them 
He looks to be a fine stallion - certainly worth contemplating
Egbert,
Well, yes - I sort of have a stallion in mind
I was thinking of this guy:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/niabhat
He's a very nice horse indeed!!
hugs
Anne |
     
I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 11:08:08 AM
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Lindsay, Any chance of seeing a picture of Red Shadow? Love his pedigree!
Anne, That stallion of Emma's is fabulous. Tommy was good to have mentioned him. As for Niabhat. His pedigree is very athletic very smooth, there is an even balance of pretty ...and the icing is his dam line to Bint Helwa via Gaysa. However, at some point it would be nice to see your girl bred to a super pretty stallion like in hand stallion-only you have such a powerhouse pedigree and it is reflected in Pavlova's physical presence that it would be fun to see her bred to the likes of a NK Hafid Jamil....
Cate...Celestial Silver must be very sweet and very beautiful as she traces to Bright Shadow on the dam line and three times to Indian Magic (The entry of Bey Shadow needed to be corrected on the All Breed-which is now done. ) She is a Kuhailan Ajuz. Bred to Bhaltos...think you should have a very beautiful, elegant, show horse. Bhaltos is also Kuhailan but am not seeing a lot of horses like Nureddinn II that could make the bone too heavy. Think the baby will be very good! Can't wait to see pictures!
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 9:04:18 PM
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Egbert.....Thank you so much for the info and for correcting the All Breed entry. Really excited about her foal especially as a week before Christmas last year she lost the filly she had carried for 6 months! She is a sweet mare and I see her very like the Silver Fire line, just my humble opinion.
Thanks again...Cate |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 12:58:22 AM
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Cate, she certainly has a fascinating pedigree and would enjoy seeing what she looks like...Can you post pictures?
To everyone: On another thread there are pictures of the mare Silvern Sheena. Am so thrilled to see such an extraordinarily bred mare out there fully living up to her pedigree and given the opportunity, think she could actually surpass everyone on her magical dam line. The only caution is that she is quadruple Bright Shadow which in my experience suggests that her kindness, sweetness and calm demeanor might cause the judges a bit of blindness and not see what they are looking at since it would be hard to have her bounce up and down in some wild demonstration of her physical attributes. This mare epitomizes what the British bred if not Crabbet Arabian is all about...FYI;Sire line-Mesaoud; Dam line-Sobha via Silver Fire-considered the most beautiful mare bred at Crabbet; via Silver Grey-Three times British National Champion only eclipsed by her daughter, Silver Sheen who was something like 6 times British National Champion; and via Crystal Sheen - British National Champion Yearling (I think).....The most consistent, reliable lines establishing a continuity of quality that is rarely if ever surpassed. It should also be noted that both the sire and dam line have their origins with the Abbas Pasha desert collections and thanks to the acumen of Lady Anne and Wilfrid Blunt, these lines were not LOST to African Horse Sickness that was to wipe out a large portion of the Egyptians that led to Dr. Branch for the RAS, returning to Crabbet Park to replenish the rapidly dwindling Egyptian Arabians.
BUT, what I've seen here so far is what makes the UK bred Arabian even more interesting if not really thrilling....So many British horses that we have seen on this thread....are so well bred that most of you could do EXACTLY what the owners of Silvern Sheena have done (condition them up and go out and compete!)...Now, all I want to know is who is she being bred to next and does she have any foals on the ground/out there now? (This is really great stuff, folks!-SOOO MUCH FUN!) |
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Tahir
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4572 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 01:27:43 AM
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Hi Egbert (again),
You very kindly gave me some information on my (sadly deceased) stallion "Zeyn". I am truly amazed at you for- and hindsight. I would be very grateful if you could look into the following horses future offspring, I am completely computer illiterate so will give you just the names (sorry I can't provide the link): the stallion, Taj el Nil and the mare Tahir bint Malika. I think if you look on allbreedspedigree they will appear (hopefully).
Many thanks in advance,
Carla, xx. |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 7:54:45 PM
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Anne, Thank you so much! That has really made it easier for me.
Carla,
Taj el Nil looks on paper to be a very beautiful stallion composed of wonderful Egyptian/Spanish horses. In two conversations with the Duke du Veragua's relatives, they have stated unequivocably that the only mares left at the time of the Spanish civil war were either the Crabbet mares or their daughters. That being the case, the consistency of the blood and the beauty associated with it...am going to predict that the cross should be brilliant with Tahir bint Malika, a kuhailan tracing to the Blunt's journey mare, Hagar; sire line is to Rabdan. Your results should be smooth bodied, lovely temperaments, excellent reliable riding horses. Would appreciate seeing pictures if you can figure a way to post them! |
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Tahir
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4572 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 10:23:12 PM
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Egbert,
Thank you so much, I also think it will be a great cross. Taj is truly beautiful, I have just got home after collecting him for a long term breeding loan, I feel so lucky and honoured to have such a great horse in my stable. Bint Malika (Mickey) is a very substantial, strong moving horse but she doesn't have the best head in the world. Knowing first hand that Taj puts beautiful heads on his offspring, especially the fillies, I feel this will be a very interesting cross. I will try my hardest to put photos on tomorrow (I am a bit tired after a looooong journey) as I have been asked to put a photo on another thread too. Keep your fingers crossed!!!
Carla, xx. |
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Tahir
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4572 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 10:25:44 PM
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Anfi,
Sorry, I forgot to thank you for providing the link. I must try harder to get to grips with all things computer!!!
Carla, xx |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 11:37:09 PM
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Carla, you're very welcome
If you have problems with the photos tomorrow, send me an email and I can post them for you.
Egbert,
Someone, whom I know to be a very experienced and knowledgable breeder, said to me that the key to Pavlova's pedigree is Silver Scenario. Can you tell me something about him and perhaps especially about his damline? I have been trying to find photos of Countess Naborr and Delilah for a couple of years now, but to no avail. I know he was imported by the Backhouses in connection with their sale of Nasmeshnik, who sadly died in transit, but that's about it. Could you tell us a bit more about him and his lines?
Anne |
I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2006 : 08:09:06 AM
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Hi Anne, Minuette is by Silver Scenario, and although I dont have the pedigree to hand, I know he is by Tornado,who was by Bask,which gives the wonderful movement inherited by my Minnie foals, the pedigree is wonderful and I know your mare , she used to belong to friends of mine the Rodgers family, ( Artizana arabians) . good luck with your choice of stallions |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
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Elys
New Member
14 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2006 : 11:23:31 AM
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Carla, Can't wait to see that foal! So for the next year, you will have to post some pictures of Taj and Tahir...after this T&T!
Hi Anne,
Well, Silver Scenario is ONE of the royally bred horses in your Pavolova's pedigree. Silver Scenario is sire line Kuhailan Haifi-a stallion found out in the desert and from his appearance in photos, was very much like the Davenports...Smart, well built, an athlete. Scenario's dam line is to Bint Helwa and if this is an image of her (it is supposed to be) she is very typical of the Bint Helwa, Seglawi Jedran dam line/strain-very beautiful:
http://search.msn.com/images/results.aspx?q=Countess+Naborr&mkt=en-US&form=QBIR&go.x=7&go.y=5
Admittedly, there isn't a nicer pedigree anywhere in the world than Scenario's. It just screams beauty. *Bask was a double US National Champion in both halter and performance. I think Silwara was a US National Champion or top ten as well. Her dam line through Silver Fire carries Azrek which alone would give her excellent action...(*Bask didn't transmit his action as consistently or for as many generations as Azrek/Ahmar/*Berk. In the case of Tornado, his tail female was Silver Fire and considering the correctness of the action-the inclination to use the hocks properly...am more inclined to credit Azrek than *Bask!) In Scenario's case his entire pedigree is loaded with Azrek and descendants as well as *Bask! And of course *Bask himself found that his best nicks were with mares carrying a lot of Azrek. So with all that combined into Pavlova's awesome pedigree...you won't have to worry about movement in the stallion you breed her to!
Lindsay...You can really see Bright Shadow in Red Shadow! Awesome!
Elys, WELCOME!
Winnsonet has what I would call an All American pedigree...Think every country next to the desert are in the pedigree...Sire line Polish to Kuhailan Afas and dam line to the Davenport import, the legendary desert mare, *Urfah, a Seglawi al Abd (for years they said she was a Seglawi Jedran until an Arabic gentleman translated her pedigree and corrected the mistake). In between there is *Fadjur, another All American, old and new Egyptian blood, great old Kellogg Crabbet (*Raseyn-who was a 5 gaited horse) along with Selby Crabbet (*Raffles) and with that another load of Davenport...and finally the dam line. So you have an outstanding athlete, of Kuhailan demeanor who is in all liklihood very lovely to look at as well, super intelligent, extremely loyal, would charge a tyrannosaurus rex if you asked her to and you were riding her as she adores you (my guess)! What a wonderful lady!
Let me guess, the gelding Karabrit-pure, unmitigated magic! Absolutely gorgeous with huge eyes and a look of mischief that is to die for....Hooked you into Arabians...and you would clone him if you could. Smartest horse on earth and a safe-cracker in a former life...You have to chain lock him into any stall or paddock because he has a prehensile tongue! A fabulous athlete who can be running in the slickest mud, slide to a stop, turn on a dime and give you change! You gotta clone this guy! Oh...and if you are a woman, he is smarter, more understanding and the handsomest man you know...If he were human you would be beating off the women and trying to marry him! The give away on this is that he is tail female *Wadduda (Seglawi al Abd-the greatest most revered war mare of the desert when awarded to Homer Davenport)/sire line *Raffles/Skowronek...so unless he is brain damaged, he has to fit the description!
Have you any pictures you can post?
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Tahir
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4572 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2006 : 11:33:12 AM
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Egbert,
Michelle has very kindly posted a picture of Taj on the "Wish me luck!!!" thread on this forum. I can't actually see the photo on my computer but apparently other people can. Hopefully by the time the planned foal is born I will have figured out how to post photos!!! The photo of Taj is not the best and really doesn't show his presence and charisma, but it gives you some idea of how he shapes up. He stands about 15.3hh but I need to measure to be sure. He certainly seems at least a hand bigger than Zeyn who was 14.3hh. Malika stands at 15.1hh so I think the foal will make a stunning ridden horse (hopefully). Many thanks for your help.
Carla, xx. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2006 : 11:40:45 AM
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Carla,
Am sorry to say I can't see the picture...Darn! |
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Tahir
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4572 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2006 : 12:10:21 PM
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Sorry Egbert, I have "mastered the art" of emailing photos so if you have time to email me at carla.spackman@btinternet.com, I will email the photo back to you. If I try really hard I could possibly send you a photo of Zeyn as well. Unfortunately I don't have any digital images of Malika yet, but I will try to take a photo of her in the field (wooly, fat with a very tangled mane!!!)
Carla, xx. |
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Elys
New Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2006 : 2:56:55 PM
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Tahir, is it ok if I email you and I will post them for you?
Ok, here goes! This is Karabrit (Brit)
Him and I, MANY, many years ago
Him and my younger brother a long time ago
Us one winter at an Eventing clinic
Egbert you described him to a tee! He is such a stinker. He even learned how to turn doorknobs to get into the feed room. He is also the one that is the lowest in the herd, but for kicks sneaks up behind the big meanies and bites them HARD on the rear, then races off merrily with his tail over his back while everyone tries to catch him. (they never can) I actually couldn't stand him when I first got him. He is very standoffish and does not like to be loved on, so I was very disappointed. After about a year I truly got to know him though and now we're like two peas in a pod, although he still does not want any pets.
As for Winnsonet (Lucy) she is actually very shy and timid. Her full sister though is just like you describe. Their dam was severely abused when younger and was quite nervous around people, so she may have been more influenced by her mom. She also was the lowest in the herd and did not have a lot of human contact when younger. Their full brother is actually the one that got me into Arabs. I saw him and wanted to buy him then and there. It turns out he wasn't for sale, but her friend had one that was- Brit (above). Lucy is a stunning mover, and as you said an amazing athlete. I am actually not her owner, but I am working on that.
As far as photos of her all I have is two head shots of her and her sister. They were dirty and their manes were all tangled. Lucy is on the right.
Thank you so much Egbert!!!!!! |
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Tail Female Line....?
