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Honeyb060674
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4301 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 10:19:45 AM
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Makes perfect sense Egbert I have always used voice commands with Honey, she free lunges perfectly, moves away when you instruct her too. Infact I have to say shes far happier following voice commands than physical ones, which often result in resistance, both on the ground and when ridden. Does anyone else get the sixth sense feeling when riding? When Honey was in work she often responded to seemed like a thought, before I 'asked' her to bend right, she did it. If I thought about moving up a pace she did it. I'm sure it wasn't my imagination, as a friend once rode her and commented the same. |
      
Claire & Sunny x
http://sunnyandclaire.blogspot.com/ |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 10:45:26 AM
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| Think that is very common with Arabians with which the rider has rapport. They know...and it is like esp...Perhaps significantly, when looking at the most developed part of the Arabian brain...it is the emotional sensory part of the brain...i.e., that which corresponds to the emotional/ sensory part of the human brain that is most developed-but way beyond a human's. A breeder in the US, Charles Craver has done extensive brain case measures of the Arabian vis a vis other breeds...and humans. The Arabian's brain is as large and sometimes larger than a humans; and is two-three times larger than many other breeds. So, there may be some type of development going on that we simply don't know about yet. |
Edited by - Egbert on 27 Oct 2006 10:48:23 AM |
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baymops
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1108 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 10:50:02 AM
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Hi Egbert, not specifically. I have just started having lessons with a new instructor and he does seem to be finally building up muscles in the right places. I would love to walk him up and down hill but I live on the Fylde Coast and its flat as a pancake!! The yard I am on is on a quiet lane where the yard is at the top of a shallowish hill so any hacking I do does involve a bit of hill work. Thanks for the suggestion though, at least I know with the correct work we could maybe flatten it out a bit.
Thanks again.
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 10:55:20 AM
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This thread has been so interesting - mainly due to your input Egbert. Could you give me some thoughts on my yearling Kamad - he is by Imad out of Trelyon Koraya (Orayan/Kalmea), female line traces through Kazra to Nuhra (I think). The mare is quite fine, so I put her to Imad to put some substance back. He has turned out to be quite fine, tall, leggy and with a refined (long but not very dished head)unlike either Imad's or Koraya's. So, I'm wondering where his physical characteristics trace to. Also if you were going to breed from this mare again, where would you go to bring out the best in the pedigree?
Your white cells are really on overtime, aren't they? |
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joanna_piana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3935 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 11:01:55 AM
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Wow sounds like Tara should go out on breeding loan! She really is a lovely mare but I have only got her whilst Jo(Evie) is working in the Caymans so I won't be breeding from her myself plus I don't have the facilities. I know Jo has thought about trying to breed from her again as she reabsorbed last time Jo tried. Maybe this will be a good option should Jo decide to stay in the Caymans longer. Many thanks Egbert this all makes such interesting reading.
Tamila fancy another mare of these lines to breed from  |
      
Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire |
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Moosie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
717 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 3:05:01 PM
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| Egbert, needless to say Im now totally intrigued. Have to admit I know next to nothing about the old bloodlines, strains etc, just recognise a few famous names when I see them. The main reason I bought Pacific Way (extremely cheaply!) was the beautiful expression on her face and the simple fact that, as a horse, I couldnt see too much wrong with her! She does, in fact have a very beautiful head but just not the typical high tail carriage, level croup etc that arab people like. (doesnt bother me though - I dont ride her tail!)Interestingly she seems very honest, always eager to go faster if allowed and no shirking of whatever has been asked of her so far. Lovely kind, gentle person too. Had another look at her pedigree but couldnt find Werdi - where does that come in?. |
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wheelie
Bronze Member
England
200 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 5:05:13 PM
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| iv been reading this thread for a while and was too shy to post but i am completly intrigued!id love to know what would be made of my mares breeding http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/g+asdiqa id like to possibly breed from her in the future if surcomstances allow and she proves herself alex |
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parrot
Silver Member
335 Posts |
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 7:16:17 PM
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Egbert - meant grey cells (as in grey matter) had a senior moment there.
Jill - hi - just realised who you are. Your mare sounds lovely. |
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bam-bam
Bronze Member
England
83 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 7:20:25 PM
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Egbert (or anyone else).
You may have covered these questions elsewhere but:
Do lines 'double' strength (ie when dam and sire have same tail line)?
Does the dams tail line pass on more strongly than the sires?
What effect does having more and several lines in the pedigree matching the tail famale?
The reason I ask is that I put my Crabbet/GSB mare to a stallion who had similar Crabbet lines plus a dash of exotic. Both the mare and the stallion are hamdani simri. I felt the dam and sire conformationally complemented each other too but was it the physical, the pedigrees or the tail famale or the strain that was the most influential for the resulting filly?
Mare is: [http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/fenhawk+desert+princess]
Sire is: [http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/aazari]
Their daughter: [http://allbreedpedigree.com/amira+bint+al+hawa]
Should I repeat the closeness or go for more difference in lines? If I could persuade Geoffrey Plaister to let me I would really like to use Imperial Silver Star. Fantastic stallion that I saw win champion at the Crabbet Show held recently here in the UK.
His pedigree is: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/imperial+silver+star
Many thanks
Sue |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2006 : 09:38:43 AM
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Fee-If Polianka were a doctor, I would trust her with my life. She is truly a phenomenal mare in pedigree, beauty and character. Unless brain damaged, I don't think you could find much better. She is smart enough but will always need you in a pinch to think for her...and would never dream of doing anything to harm.
Egbert, thank you so much for taking yet more time to look at Po's pedigree. It's truly awesome and touching the things you are telling us about our beloved arabs 
You are of course correct about Po. In the 6 months I had her I have found her to be quite the most wonderful horse to be around. She is so intelligent and thinks her way through things but she does check I'm there with and for her at all times.
It's early days for us and we are still checking that we can rely on and trust each other. I suspect and hope I've still got the best to come...like you say Egbert she is the type you would trust with your life...
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2006 : 11:00:36 AM
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Sorry  I forgot to say thank you for taking the time to look at Kraka's pedigree. I will pass what you said to his owner and I'm sure she'll be delighted! Yes, he is gelded and he's a BIG arab, about 15.3 I think 
bfn |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2006 : 12:17:35 PM
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Mazey, (Hercule would understand you meant the little grey cells!)
Actually you may want to keep breeding her just as you have. You have a pedigree that takes quite awhile to mature (if you want to speed up the maturation process you might want to look at Spanish lines)but in the end, all things being equal-proper care, food, excercise...you will find that you have an exceptionally beautiful baby-if not elegant youngster. That pedigree is absolutely loaded with beauty and I looked and looked at it yesterday and was scratching my head....Was there any possibility that the mare didn't have sufficient nutrition/proper nutrition? Was she moved or stressed while gestating? Really think it is a matter of patience. How old is the foal now? The pedigree is loaded with Skowronek...so think what is happening is that the baby is simply taking a long time to mature. when he is 5-6 you will think-Whoa! this youngster is beautiful. If the head isn't extreme enough for you, you might want to look to some of the SE breeders and see what they have available. For example, Susan George has a wonderful stallion whose babies uniformly seem to have gorgeous heads...and good bodies, too-Ibreez - think his name is....
Bone doesn't have to be terribly big. As a matter of fact, if you were to look at the old Davenports...entirely old desert stock...the bone is extremely fine til the horses reach 6-7 and are used regularly. Then the bone begins to mature. Personally the finer the better as far as I am concerned. That means to me that with age, there will be refinement not coarseness as there is in some lines as they age. According to Forbis, and what I've seen in my travels, cross sections of Arabian bone is much much finer than say a TB's. Forbis notes that Arabian horse bone is denser than ivory and can only be distinguished under a microscope (CLASSIC ARABIAN HORSE, Ch 13, p.229) Ergo it is much stronger than other breeds, can withstand heavier loads, etc.
Joanna, She sounds so happy with you...
Moosie,
Found the dam line-old Davenport-by combining the All Breed base with the Arab Data Source here in the US. The old Davenport lines are very influential in a pedigree and convey tremendous intelligence, kindness, love...truly magical when on the dam line as your girl's is. You've a very special creature there.
Wheelie,
Another great mare in G Asdiqa...Prove herself? That is a mare whose pedigree states in no uncertain terms that you would have to deliberately attempt to mess her up before she couldn't prove herself. That is a tremendous Russian pedigree with which you should be able to breed to anything you like. She is a Hamdani Simri tracing to Sobha which means you have a great friend in her, smooth bodied and should be stunning especially with her daddy, Artist. Call Susan George see what she would suggest, but I'd be inclined to go to one of the Padron Psyches you have in the UK.
Parrot...you are in the Tail Female thread...Or did you mean????
Bam Bam (Sue)...
When the tail female of both the sire and dam are the same, that tail female line will usually be that much stronger...For a horse like Rodania, it is intelligence, fecundity, good health, that are extra strong. If too much Nureddinn II is in the pedigree, there will be coarsenss.
Does the tail FEMALE line act more strongly coming from the dam? Yes-all things being equal. One thing I like to do is see what is influencing the pedigree so will run all the tail females in the pedigree's 5th generation to see what is acting most strongly...Even in concert, they won't over-run the strength's of a dominant tail female but they will influence the look. For example, Rodania will over-ride Dajania to a point. BUT the Dajania's strength is in her son's...as a general rule the Dajania line sons are more beautiful than the daughters! Rodania won't overcome that as strong as she is, as a general rule (remembering rules are made to be broken...). The same dam lines running throughout the pedigree will simply make the dam line that much stronger...and I suspect very similar in look and character to the horses bred in the desert...As I think those horses were bred for many generations rather incestuously until new blood could be found...and that might not be for a 5-10 years a thousand years ago. The Bedu had a routine and until someone brought in new blood or they visited an area when something new arrived...they were pretty much stuck with what was tried, true and available.
The rule of thumb seems to be that Size and Shape come from the stallion - all else from the dam.
Think of breeding in terms of cooking receipes...if you add more of an ingredient...that will be one of the things you should see first and foremost in the resulting foal...Your Amira Bint etc., has to be very beautiful, very sweet and very smooth with a quality that just makes you pinch yourself...for the sheer joy of having her! Wow! Looks to me like you did some homework with that pedigree!
Anything Geoff Plaister has - is outstanding. Visited him this past summer...and am not sure which was who but those stallions were very wonderful and there were two or three standouts that just knocked one's socks off...Sadly, I didn't take notes but was tremendously impressed with the overall quality of his horses. Can only imagine what they would be like were they conditioned for 6 months and then put in a show. Lucky you!
Fee,
Can only imagine the joy you are going to know with this mare. You are to be envied!
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wheelie
Bronze Member
England
200 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2006 : 4:08:54 PM
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hehe thanks egbert showing how little i know about arab breeding there!i simply stumbled on her and fell in love wasnt even looking for another horse let alone an arab so i am very new to it all!she is a great friend though i feel sometimes she senses if im unhappy and that depresses her greatly!iv never met her daddy but do feel she looks very like him
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2006 : 8:06:45 PM
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Wheelie/Alex, She is very very special...She has a surprisingly Hamdani Simri head despite being so loaded with Russian/Egyptian blood as well as Crabbet, one I would expect to see more on a gray-if that photo is an accurate depiction. Hope you breed her at some point because you have something so wonderful in her.
Just re-read your post and thought to add that Lady Anne Blunt made a point of noting what great 'companions' the Sobha line mares were and I think it is the sensitivity to their owner/rider. That she recognizes when you are down speaks volumes about her. |
Edited by - Egbert on 28 Oct 2006 8:24:22 PM |
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Tonim
Silver Member
United Kingdom
430 Posts |
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wheelie
Bronze Member
England
200 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2006 : 10:00:40 PM
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| thankyou egbert unfortunatly at the moment breeding from her is out of the question but i hope the time will come when i have the right facilities to do so and that im brave enough to do so!! |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2006 : 11:23:44 PM
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Hallo Egbert,
I think I am confusing myself (not hard ) I ran the tail female in the 5th generation thinking it would be as clear as day to understand but unfortunately it's not...........help please Lots of Rodania but what influences do the others have; Balkis, Abeyah, Hadba, Hagar, Mahawiliyah, Kuhaylah Jallabiyah, 2 x Dajania
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bakeeta
Many Thanks In Advance |
Edited by - georgiauk on 29 Oct 2006 12:09:37 AM |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2006 : 09:11:27 AM
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Hi Lynn!
I ran the 5th generation's dam lines-32 to be precise and 1/2 trace to Rodania (Now you know why I am so hot to see you all breeding to Seglawi stallions or vice versa); the next most numerous are those tracing to Dajania - 4 and we are still doing the Kuhailans...so right off the bat you know your pedigree is weighted to the Kuhailan lines with those of Rodania dominating big time! There are 2 Seglawi lines, 1 Hamdani Simri, 2 Abayan Sherak (1 being by Queen of Sheba) and so on. Sadly I've not a clue who or what Balkis II was as she traces to France and those horses came out of North Africa for the most part. Maybe someone here might know.
She should be a rather pretty mare as she is loaded with Irex and kind as Bright Shadow is up close on the dam line. Also she should be quite a good broodmare, healthy and having fairly consistent, healthy babies.
Basically Lynn you weighed it correctly as you immediately saw that the 5 generation was weighted to Rodania.
Hi Toni, Just saw your note...
Hartley is very interestingly bred: Sire line Nazeer, dam line: Dafina a Kuhailan Krush bred in Arabia by the Muteyr tribe; his sire is Russian/Spanish and the dam's side is predominately Crabbet but going back to the Guiness family acquired Dafinetta presumably from Lady W. Daffodil -Hartley's great granddam-is very interestingly bred as she is double Naziri. One can only wonder if her daughter, Zenza wasn't quite beautiful-she certainly should have been! Would suspect your boy is beautiful, robust, a powerful ride and personable. Is he a bit of a peacock? Likes to show off a bit? |
Edited by - Egbert on 29 Oct 2006 09:56:02 AM |
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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2006 : 5:06:51 PM
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Hi Egbert
I am the extremely lucky new owner of
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/artizana+pavlova
and would love your input on her breeding, character and possibly ideas for stallions to breed her to? (Don't ask much, do I)
I am still pinching my arm - I can't really believe how lucky I've been - so many people stepped in to help someone they'd never even met with time, effort and everything else that was needed. I would have never imagined such generosity still existed today.
Pavlova is in my opinion very well bred, being by Peleng (one of the most expensive stallions ever sold by Tersk) ex Faery Rose BNC! I bought her to be a broodmare - she will be on breeding loan to a good friend of mine first, but when I get the chance, I hope to breed her to ...? Well, there are so many good stallions to chose from, but seeing as I live in Denmark, it limits my choice a bit.
I have a hunch that if I can find a tall, correct, typey, and smooth bodied stallion with some nice Rodania damlines that would be a good place to start!? Obviously, I want to play to her strengths, but I don't know a fraction of what you know, so hoping for some good advice
You can see her photo here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23462550@N00/sets/72157594350087447/
Anne |
     
I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2006 : 9:52:38 PM
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Anne,
Some friends in Swedan have leased a fabulous stallion for next year, Emiliusz by Laheeb...Think they are comparatively close to you... Will email you their web page as am unsure if it is ok to put it up. All I can tell you is that Jorgen Olsen of Oppreva-Araber, was a huge influence on me years ago and think he and his wife, Britt would advise you very well. Your girl is a Seglawi but looks in the photo to be rather Kuhailan so would like to see you use some very Seglawi-like stallions. Your girl is indeed royally bred and very lovely. Well done you!
Lindsay,
Rhia's pedigree is predominately Crabbet with sire line to Mesaoud, some non-Crabbet elements like Algol who was of Prince of Wales breeding and the tail female to Dafina, the Kuhailan Krush. This is through Dafinetta, the Naziri daughter....a very important mare that I noted elsewhere, but think I might add that if you go through all the winners of the British Nationals, there is an inordinately large percentage number that trace to Naziri in the dam line. I think it was something like 38%...Ergo...any female of this line is an excellent one or has the potential to be. Would LOVE to see a mare of this line bred to Padrons Psyche son/grandson...Would be a potentially awesome nick though she could do well with anything as the pedigree so basically Crabbet.
As for Hoatzin, sort of typical, predominately Crabbet with Dargee pedigree, sire line Mesaoud, dam line Rodania-Very very kuhailan type stallion. He is the kind that could be bred to any basic Crabbet mare without doing harm, but he is common enough that he isn't going to change much either. However, would imagine he had a bit of a fiery personality and would have been a very fun ride....This is the kind of horse would love to see bred to some Russian or Polish lines to make him a star. |
Edited by - Egbert on 30 Oct 2006 06:43:05 AM |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 11:24:35 AM
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We have been lucky enough to purchase our third straight egyptian broodmare, she is by Al Masri (ibn Nazeema x Icomb) out of our own Myrna (Theegyptianprince x RSA Rara del Sol). Would be interested to know what sort of breeding programme you think may suit as we have some ideas but our first choice is a little small as is our mare.
When we first met her she was a little highly strung but now her temperament is second to none
Yvonne |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 12:51:14 PM
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Hi Egbert, thanks for the link
It looks as if they have a very nice stud.
I was wondering whether you'd opt for reinforcing the Bint Helwa influence or if you'd think it was better to look for sth else. It all depends on what one is breeding for, of course, but I would like to seek a balance to create a harmonic result. (I don't know if this makes any sense at all)
Anne |
I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
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TommyH
Bronze Member
Norway
89 Posts |
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Tail Female Line....?
