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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 2:09:27 PM
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Thank you Egbert.
I know about the Rossanna connection from Kellogg so it has filled some gaps on the damline .
Lalique also did the double so its in the genes.
Hopefully Kristal will do the same when she grows up.
Thanks |
    
blue moon |
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cookie
Silver Member
United Kingdom
331 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 8:42:26 PM
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Hello again,
I have found one photo of Pellegrina with her Vodafone filly aged 3 weeks.Not very good but gives an idea,if I can manage to post I will try another!!
May I also take this opportunity to thank you for your time in answering all our questions,it really is much appreciated,
jane |
j.e holloway |
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cookie
Silver Member
United Kingdom
331 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 10:12:01 PM
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OK try again!!! |
j.e holloway |
Edited by - Mike on 16 Oct 2006 10:48:44 PM |
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cookie
Silver Member
United Kingdom
331 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 10:44:10 PM
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Alistair,
Yikes! Who is Kristal? Or am I having a senior moment?
Cookie....OOOOH! That baby is super, isn't she? Your daughter must be over the moon with her!
It is always a pleasure doing these horses especially when they are particularly unique-eg finding a mare is double Pilarka! |
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Treasure
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 11:14:52 PM
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Egbert, I think Krystal is Lalique's foal! |
Carolyn
Johaara Arabians |
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cookie
Silver Member
United Kingdom
331 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 11:24:45 PM
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Glad you like the baby because i managed to persuade Amanda to let me buy her!!keeps her in the family he he he
regards jane |
j.e holloway |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 01:38:52 AM
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Hi Treasure,
That much I figured...but who by?
Cookie...
And you are going to win with her too! |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 12:42:45 PM
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Hiya Egbert,
Would you mind looking these up for me.
Beconase Final Countdown by Crystal Magician x Galisha.
Kazcade by Derbist x Kazamah
Goldenaire by Kamali x Shimandra
Zahra bint Krayaan by Krayaan Dilmun x Goldenaire
Shahranza by Esperanzo x Leisha
Lakota Cisco by Alderbaran x Largin Sapphire
Rafisa by Ak El Sennari x Ibtisam
H Nepal by Azteq x Nimara colt foal.
I would really appreciate if you could tell me their charachters, and future breeding bloodline wise.
Many Thanks Nikki, sorry it's so many. |
pagey |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 3:33:32 PM
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Hi Egbert
Sorry it was my senior moment
Kristal is Lalique's latest by KARAT the super Russian.
Very pretty and athletic!
Alistair |
blue moon |
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sue
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
169 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 8:15:36 PM
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Hi, would someone please be able to educate me a bit about the Seglawi Jedran - Bint Helwa femail line please.
thanks, Hannah |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 10:13:26 PM
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Hannah,
This is from page one of this thread - from one of Egberts posts.
Ghazala, presuming we are discussing the same Ghazala...there are some others wandering about, who was a daughter of the great Bint Helwa who trace to the Abbas Pasha mare Ghazieh, a grey seglawi jedran. What made Bint Helwa so remarkable was her stunning courage. Gentle, kind, loving to all, she broke her leg one day while out in pasture and apparently walked home something like 5 miles on the leg and waited patiently at the gate for someone to come and get her. Upon seeing this, Wilfrid Blunt, not known for sentimentality, was so overcome that he would not have the mare put down but instead insisted that the vets figure a way for her to be suspended until it was time for her to foal...6 or more months down the line. She was and she gave birth to a filly and several more foals afterwards. Sadly the line died out at Crabbet but came back via the Ghazala descendants. Clearly she passed the loyalty, sweetness and incredible courage...those elements that made Carmargue one of the most famous of her descendants. He nearly died in Spain and Diego Mendez was to say later that he was the most courageous horse he had ever known as he refused to lie down and die when three vets said he was too sick to go on and wanted to euthanize him. Instead, he recovered and went on to win the World Championship!
On page 14 in this thread Egbert again talks about the same line through Gayza (Bazleyd x Gulnare)
Gayza....Well gotta tell you, I think this is the most important dam line to return to the UK. Except for Rodan-whose desert blood is doubled in her pedigree and Bazrah she is virtually entirely Ali Pasha Sherif/Abbas Pasha bloodlines. Her great granddam Bint Helwa was the bravest mare in the eyes of Wilfrid Blunt-not given to any sentiment whatsoever-he ever knew and when she shattered her leg insisted that she be saved as she had limped back on it nearly 5 miles to the stud. When Carmargue, whose tail female line is via Gayza to Bint Helwa nearly died in Spain, and THREE insurance company vets said he had to euthanized, because he wouldn't go down-despite raging fever and not taking in any water...Diego Mendez opted to sleep in his stall every night to ensure the great stallions i v's stayed in place! Later Don Diego would tell me in an interview that Carmargue was the greatest most courageous stallion he ever knew. And not only did he come back but within three months, he went to the Salon Du Cheval and blew away the competition in the in the preliminary classes and then went on to win the Senior World Championship title with the highest scores in the history of the Salon/World Championships! Kind, incredibly loving/affectionate, with the most beautiful eyes imaginable-these Bint Helwa line horses own your heart. Cam was simply incredibly charismatic... but all horses of that dam line that I've known are the same way. I've a double Bint Helwa Carmargue daughter who is simply awesome sadly, I've never been able to get her in foal and she is 18 this year..but am going to try with fingers crossed an embryo transfer! Another great example of the Gayza dam line is Mustaphah. Gayza was triple Bint Helwa, by the way, which may explain why the horses coming through this line are so very very extraordinary! Bint Helwa was a Seglawi Jidran of the highest quality.
The Crabbet Arabian Stud mentions Bint Helwa on page 238:
Imported 1897. Bint Helwa's line died out quite quickly at Crabbet. It is prominent in America through her daughter Ghazala (by Ibn Sherara) who was the dam of Gulnare and granddam of Gulastra. Bint Helwa is also the dam of Harb and therefore the granddam of Rodan, the sire of Gulnare. This line was reintroduced into England in the Thirties with the mares Gara and Gayza but not into Crabbet. Another line from Bint Helwa in America is through her daughter Hamasa (by Mesaoud) and Hamasa's daughter Hazna (by Razaz, by Astraled out of Rose of Hind). A small line also exists in Australia through Bint Helwa's grandson Harir.
The Authentic Arabian Horse mentions her on page 248:
.. which had a terrible accident owing to being stampeded by a rush of mares over a hedge. She was knocked over and trampled on, several ribs were broken and shoulder split and her leg broken in three places below the point of the shoulder across the forearm and under the knee. She was in foal and being Lady Anne Blunt's favourite mare every effort was made to save her. She was slung by pulleys for nine months at the end of which time she foaled safely and lived to have several more foals, and led a peaceful and happy life hopping cheerfully about on three legs, using the distorted front leg as a prop to keep her balance.
I think her damline has been very successful in producing both show- and riding champions - more so than many other lines, but I'm sure Egbert can tell us much more about that.
Hope this helped a little.
Anne |
     
I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
Edited by - Anfi on 17 Oct 2006 10:19:09 PM |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 08:16:35 AM
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Oh dear Alistair...am assuming that is Karat by Kubinec? (there are 5 Arabian 'Karats'....) If so it should be a major contender in anything you want. Love the pedigree.
Nikki, with that many (8 ) would you please put up the All Breed cites? Thanks!
Anne,
THANK YOU SO MUCH! You are right at least as far as halter in the US is concerned (I've not run the performance winners tho' am tempted to start keeping track of Western Pleasure and Hunter winners in the US)...The Bint Helwa line has won as many US National Halter Championships as the Polish Milordka line which is saying a lot (think it was 5 each)...considering that there were 125 more or less original dam lines that came to the US, only about 14 have ever won a US National Championship in halter...and those that have, several have won in multiples-like Rodania, Bint Helwa, Milordka, Zulima....
In the UK and in Europe the Helwas have won but because of the longish absence from the UK and Europe, not on the US scale...i.e., Mustaphah, Faery Rose and Shahlie in the UK, Carmargue and BSA Aliya internationally, and those venues, also have more available dam lines with which to compete. There is a strong leaning in the UK for the Kuhailans so Dajania and Rodania are exceptionally influential with Sobha following close behind...but it has to be remembered for any tail female to win a National Championship whether in the UK, Europe, or wherever...just once is an accolade...to win more than a couple of times is pretty amazing! |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 12:48:37 PM
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Hiya Egbert,
Sorry, but i still have a very old and nearly useless computor, which for some reason doesn't link me up to www.allbreedpedigree.com
anymore, but most of them should be on there, it would mean you would have to type their names in. Hope you don't mind.
Cheers Nikki |
pagey |
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Taylor
Gold Member
England
1432 Posts |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 2:24:20 PM
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Hi Egbert
Karat by Aromat out of Kaluga.Russian derby winner ,Russian Nat Champ,Dutch Nat champ British Res ,
Top Ten Paris Etc
Very interesting thread.
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blue moon |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 3:18:51 PM
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HI Egbert, I have been watching with interest this thread and I must say you have been so helpful to all the Aliners and their questions I am sure I speak for all of us when I say thank you for sharing your time and vast knowledge with us. I know you are a very busy lady and I have asked you a few times to write an article for the lines, so now that I have your attention what about it?? I am here in the states visiting my family this week, but I sure wish I could come and visit with you sometime and see YOUR lovely horses (in the flesh) perhaps then I could write an article on YOU |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 3:23:20 PM
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Thankyou Taylor, thats very kind of you.
Lynda, an article would be a great idea.
How about it Egbert? It would help so many people. |
pagey |
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Taylor
Gold Member
England
1432 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 3:32:16 PM
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Not a problem Nikki
I too am extremely grateful to Egbert for all the information she has provided and all the time involved in doing so. An article would be lovely but I'm sure all of us understand if you preferred not to and do not have the time. Once again Thank you, every piece of information you give away is truly appreciated.
ps. Didnt mean to miss out all of those who have contributed aswell, I know Mike has been a great help too. |
Edited by - Taylor on 18 Oct 2006 3:33:42 PM |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 12:23:04 AM
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Taylor,
Thank you for the kind words and also for looking up Nikki's horses. Really appreciate it. (Have a lot on the old plate right now and you have speeded things up for me. Will look them up later this evening.)
Alistair, after looking at KARAT in the All Breeds, photo...my impression is you will have a very beautiful, exotic and BIG baby! When is Lalique due? Very very exciting! WOW!
Lynda, you are very kind...but really want to remain "anonymous" for now. I LOVE nearly all things British but most particularly the Arabian horse...There has been a tradition in the UK for breeding fine horse flesh and the contribution made to the Arabian horse is simply unparalleled. It is absolutely fascinating that there seems to be an almost nationally heritable factor for creating, with very little background, extraordinarily unique horses of abundant quality. Hopefully the pedigree assistance here accelerates the process? And of course, is my way of saying "Thank you all" for more fun/joy that the Brits have brought to my life. When I have a little more time, would be happy to do a story or two but right now am on over-load. Am sure you do understand. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 08:24:51 AM
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Hi Nikki,
Here you go:
Kazcade-sire line: Denouste; dam line: Nuhra a Wadnan Khirsan...This mare has a sporting pedigree...with a lot of pretty. She probably is very pleasant to be around, willing to learn and athletic. I'd like to see her bred to stallions like Derwativ Gwyddion or nearly any Carmargue son but preferably with a Seglawi sire line, Russians like Narim or Padron Psyche sons-all lines for pretty and athletic.
Goldenaire- Nazeer sire line; Dajania dam line; Kuhailan Dajania --- should be an extremely nice looking and sweet tempered mare...can be bred to anything...very versatile pedigree.
Zahra Bint Krayaan-Bahraini bred sire line-have no idea who these horses are; dam line see above. Have a hunch this horse is a poppet and again, could be bred however you would want.
Lakota Cisco-Sire line-Skowronek; dam line to the Davenport import *Werdi...Kuhailan Krush strain...Have a hunch this is a pleasant, nicely bred mare and could use more scope...I'd look at someone like Narim-anything with El Shaklan...or Alistair's Karat.
Nepal-Sire line Seanderich; dam line: Dajania ...This is a "WOW" type pedigree and should be very spectacular! Another poppet with panache in spades....Can be bred to anything with a great result...beauty, athletic, kind...(could be bred to all of the above with a lot of success methinks!)
Rafisa-Straight Egyptian, sire line Nazeer; Dam line-Venus, a Hadban Enzahi...Breed to the above youngster and the results should be wonderful; but again this is a very versatile line and can be bred any way you want.
Beconase Final Countdown-Sire line is to Mesaoud; dam line to Ferida, a Menaghy...
Lovely tempered, glamourous, hmmm...very high quality mare.
Nice group Nikki! Well done...!
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 10:14:29 AM
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WOW Egbert! That is amazing.
Kazcade is an ex-race mare, won one race, and yes she is very pretty. She has a super temprement, though 'hot', she is brilliant with other horses, and is lovely to be a round.
Goldenaire, on a human to horse level, she is a great mate, i have a wonderful relationship with her. But she is only happy with other horses, if she can boss them around. She rejected her foal, Zahra, but i did manage to keep them together, again as she had her own baby to boss around. She is a wonderful ride. A very vocal mare, she talks alot!
Zahra bint Krayaan, yep, she is a poppet, my baby, handreared. And so well adjusted. Has a better temp than her mum. Taken the best bits of both her parents, at 2 yrs old, she now stands 15.1hh approx. Huge ground covering strides.
Spot on with Cisco, she does need more scope. But a very loving mare.
Nepal, thats what i'm hoping! I've bought him to soley use on my own mares, once he's proved himself as a ridden horse. He certainly is a stunning chap, with a nice temprement, and excellant movement.
Rafisa i haven't quite got her yet, but one thing i have got to try, is putting a bahraini stallion on her.
Beconase Final Countdown she has a wonderful temprement, so, so sweet and loving. A dark liver chestnut, very pretty and a quality mare. She gave me a stunning filly this year by Quaid (Sjambok x Grojecs Princess).
Thats amazing how you do that! If you'd like more info on the bahraini stallions that i have used.
www.pearlislandarabians.co.uk
Many Thanks again, Cheers Nikki
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pagey |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2006 : 08:32:31 AM
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| Terrific Nikki! Look forward to seeing pictures one day in the not too distant future. |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2006 : 12:54:22 PM
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Spot on!
As you describe
You are brilliant
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blue moon |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2006 : 3:47:47 PM
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| Brief update on the Blunts on TV idea raised earlier on this thread: I talked to Paula Milne; she loved the story, but thinks it would be much better as a proper film (cinema film) than as a TV prog or series. TV people won't commission anything historical unless it's about very major historical figures (e.g. Elizabeth I), or events of world-changing importance, so apparently we wouldn't stand a chance with this story. But cinema film-makers can take more risks, and all the desert scenes etc., would in any case work better on the big screen. Paula is a TV writer mainly, though - and she's way too overloaded (as I thought she might be) to take this on herself. So - does anyone on here have any Hollywood contacts??? |
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Topic |
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Tail Female Line....?
