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karenfullbrook
Bronze Member
England
121 Posts |
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Judi
Silver Member
England
494 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 5:24:48 PM
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Many thanks Egbert. I'm surprised he has come out Rodania as he is ultra refined with the tiniest muzzle and quite a long refined head and level croup rather than the shorter, chunkier head and body usually expected (but then he is only 4 months, lol).
Another of my mares, Divine Sensation, has had 2 foals by Ibn Sudan, and both look very typical Rodania? Now you've got me thinking!
Blimey, I bet you wish you had never started this!! But thank you!
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Judi
judirhodes1@yahoo.co.uk |
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 6:51:26 PM
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| Karen, I know Zelah - I live in Cornwall - Zelah's mother is called Lyonesse, named after the lost island supposed to be off Cornwall somewhere (Lands End I think) , so I called Zelah after another Cornish place, which I drive past every time I go up the A30. She is grey by the way. |
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kofihorse
Bronze Member
241 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 10:19:32 PM
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Egbert, sorry to have lost your detailed analysis - computers,eh! Wonderful things when they're doing our bidding, sometimes feel like throwing mine out of the window  |
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Helen Newton
Gold Member
England
692 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 10:48:20 PM
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Thank-you for that Egbert, most interesting. Are there any pictures of Crysilla anywhere that I could view do you know? I would be very curious to see her. El Carmaal has a very handsome dished face and is now white and covered in freckles like El Shaklan was. He's not a big horse, barely 15hh,slim and athletic. His personality is cheeky, very intelligent, he understands cause and effect, he is curious if not downright nosey, desperate to communicate and can be a little impatient, he gets bored easily and needs to be doing things, loves to tease his fellow equines , he's a show off (certainly thinks he's Prince Charming ) enjoys human company, a dream to ride with the most comfortable paces, an excellent companion on long rides and understands every word I say! When most people meet him for the first time they say how sweet he is, but generally speaking, kind and gentle would not be the first words I would use to describe him, on saying that there is not a vicious or nasty bone in his body and I can do just about anything with him. I wouldn't be without Carly, he is a one off! I don't think cloning is an option though There are a couple of pictures of him doing endurance in the photo gallery under my name, but they don't really do him justice. Helen |
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cookie
Silver Member
United Kingdom
331 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 10:53:44 PM
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Hi,
Just wondering if Egbert could enlighten me as to my fillys line.
she is by Vodafone Kossack ( balaton x verba ) out of HS Pellegrina
( Pilot x Pilarka ) Hope you can point me in the right direction !! jane |
j.e holloway |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 12:23:24 AM
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Taylor, regarding Sahara and early Polish breeding, I think you will find this:- http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200106/the.polish.quest.for.arabian.horses.htm interesting
Judi, Rodiana's can be incredibly refined, depending on how the damline has been bred over successive generations As Egbert pointed out earlier the Rodiana damline usually comes with multiple crosses to Nureddin II which tends to have the opposite effect and produce a more "masculine" rounded look Lose or minimise the Nureddin II blood and you get a completely different lookFor example one pure-in-the-strain K. Rodan filly with lots of Rodiana blood as you can see here:- http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/fareeda
 actually a result of the multiple crossing over many generations of my two favourite damlines, namely those of Rodiana (through Ridaa) and Bint Helwa The beauty being that given the right horses, the cross works equally well both ways
Mike |
Edited by - Mike on 13 Oct 2006 12:36:43 AM |
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karenfullbrook
Bronze Member
England
121 Posts |
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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 2:34:52 PM
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I was advised to post here by various people. I am new to AL and am interested in finding out about my new mares breeding. her pedigree can be found at http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/silver+shadow18. I have owned her now for 6 weeks and we are getting along really well. she is my first arab and I want to perhaps find out a bit more about her lineage and pedigree.
Can anyone help? |
   
Paidir dóibhsean le fiántas ina gcroíthe acu, atá coinnithe i gcaighin |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 11:14:56 AM
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Marie Molly,
I think Egatist would be a phenomenal cross with your mare IF you remember one thing...Very often the Polish blood takes forever to look right...that is you can have a baby that is so-so to look at...everything basically correct but looks all 'spare parts' and then about the 5th year...comes together awesomely. My next door neighbors bred a colt that fits the above description, gelded him and 5 years later as a 6 year old was stunning and won US National Champion Gelding out of 100 or so shown...So just keep that in mind. No question you would have something athletic-the beauty will just become steadily better and better the older the baby becomes. IF it starts out beautiful...it will stay beautiful. Oh and the stallions dam line is Seglawi while your mare's is Kuhailan Rodania. Think you will have something magical with the cross.
Taylor, Cealestis's dam line traces back to Patricia Lindsay's importation of Karramba, an extremely beautiful Kuhailan mare and I've heard she was a bit of a character...wonderfully conformed. Here dam's sire Silver Scenario was a beautiful stallion by one of the US's most beautiful Bask son's, Tornado.
Raydon Prince is a lovely son of Carmargue and brings yet another line to Silver Scenario...so unless the mare is over 6...she is still maturing and should be very beautiful, refined and athletic. My hunch is that you could show her as a 10 year old and clean house. Lovely lovely pedigree.
Judi, Mike is right...start finding more than one or two lines to Nureddin II and the look changes significantly and is often coarser.
Helen,
If you can find a 1985 Crabbet Convention catalogue there is a picture and write up of Crysilla on pg 95. You might also try contacting some of the site's photographers or Mrs. Campbell. By the way, if he hasn't been gelded more than a couple of years...the sweetness, kindness may take awhile...He still remembers what it was like to be a stallion.
Hi Cookie!
Well, you have one of the most well-bred filly's in the world and that is a fact. Your girl's grandmama, Pilarka, was considered by many to be the most beautiful mare to ever come out of Poland. Pilot bred back to her, his granddam, to create your filly's dam. The sire, Vodafone, is double Hamdani Simri...so you should have an outstanding Polish/Russian (with lots of Crabbet and Egyptian)filly, who is a Kuhailan of the Polish Szamrajowka family. She may take a long time to mature, but she should be super athletic, very very pretty, super smooth bodied perhaps a tad long in the back, a super ride and outstanding broodmare!
Lindsay,
Your filly's sire line goes back to Mahruss II via the wonderful Silver Blue a lovely gray stallion who consistently sired beautiful offspring...and imho way underutilized. Your filly is intensely line bred to Blue Domino so should have a very Kuhailan look but her dam lines traces back to the desert bred Queen of Sheba, an Abbayan Sherrak...known for their stamina, strength and beauty...particularly a nicedly dished head. Basically a straight Crabbet pedigree so she should be very athletic. If she is a gray, she must be very nice indeed but she will take a long long time to mature...
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Edited by - Egbert on 14 Oct 2006 12:20:03 PM |
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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 12:56:35 PM
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| Thank you so much for the info. Unfortunately she is not grey but we are still debating as to whether she will turn grey or not. I'm not sure what you mean by long long time to mature? |
Paidir dóibhsean le fiántas ina gcroíthe acu, atá coinnithe i gcaighin |
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cookie
Silver Member
United Kingdom
331 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 6:07:39 PM
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Hi egbert,
many thanks for that,of course I think she is beautifull anyway.You are nearly spot on with your assesment!!she is only a foal but is everything you commented about.My daughter owns her mother HS Pellegrina and she is now scanned in foal to Ghazal Al Shaqab.Any comments gratefully received.
regards jane |
j.e holloway |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 8:13:46 PM
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Hi Lindsay,
Straight Crabbets and those nearly straight, often take as long as the Polish horses to mature...Your girl may have to reach 8 years of age before her beauty is totally assessed. I remember when I saw two very well known straight Crabbet mares and both took forever to look really beautiful...mainly the eyes took a tremendously long time to emerge...or bank...Am not quite sure how to describe it but it is when the orbital bone suddenly becomes very pronounced. For some reason in both Polish and Crabbet lines, often some of the most beautiful horses certainly did not look that way between the ages of 1 and 6. Alun Prothero, Carmargue's owner used to say how comparatively plain he looked as a 3-4 year old. At 5 his eyes became enormous, the banking/bone around the eye became extremely pronounced and the rest is history.
Cookie/Jane,
Any chance to see a picture? HS Pellegrina must be lovely-or getting there (presuming she is under 7?). Is she a gray? Or bay? |
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cookie
Silver Member
United Kingdom
331 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 8:54:20 PM
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Hello again,
Pellegrina is grey and I would say "getting there" she is 7 this year.Halsdon ra ced her in poland before selling her.She has a strong personality to say the least,never the less she is the most lovely horse to be around.Very regal and thinks that she owns the world.She keeps herself a little light with a foal at foot but I will find a photo of her before she foaled.
jane |
j.e holloway |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 9:46:13 PM
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Cookie-Jane (am using both names as we also have Jane-Vygoda posting),
Thank you very much! That would be super! Would imagine that it will take awhile with Pilot/Fawor on the sire line. Her daughter will have one advantage over mom-she will be very smooth comparatively early. Hope you are going to breed Pellegrina again!? |
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cookie
Silver Member
United Kingdom
331 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 11:52:48 PM
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Hello again,
Yes Pellegrina is in foal for 2007 to Ghazal Al Shaqab.This has been my daughters dream to have a Pilarka relation and breed to Ghazal.Hopefully it will work,but then who knows with breeding?you might have more idea about this than me!!will search the photos tomorrow and then have to work out how to post them,that will be an art in itself!! jane |
j.e holloway |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 10:46:07 AM
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What an interesting thread.
Pilarka came to uk on the same plane as my mare Lalique ds.
Can you give some data on the Amercan lines of Lalique please Egbert? |
    
blue moon |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 11:56:47 AM
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Hi Alistair!
Lalique goes back to the fabulous COBAH (Pomona Ahmen by *Raseyn x Faradina by Farana {*Nasik x *Farasin}) dam line which is predominately Crabbet with a line to Spain throught her paternal granddam, *Nakkla, by Fondak and out of *Menfis. *Menifis's tail female Zulima, is the winningest Spanish dam line ever imported into the US from Spain with probably her best known descendants being the US National Champions Shahteyna, Bey Teyna, Sureyn, Surita, and Petit Jean.
Cobah, had 14 foals and when bred to *Serafix found her Golden Cross. Together they produced SX Challanger, SX Bint Cobah, SX Saladin (Reserve Canadian National Champion Stallion and US Top Ten), and SX La Quinta to name a few of the more illustrious. Lalique traces to Cobah through SX La Quinta's daughter, Bint La Quinta, by the double (in hand and performance champion) US National Champion Stallion *Bask! Of the incredibly successful Kuhailan Rodania strain, Cobah has 7 Champions to her credit and is an Arabian Horse World Aristocrat.
Here is a picture of Cobah with her owner-not very good but does give an idea of what she was like:
http://www.ahlegacy.com/Irene%20Bennett%20and%20Cobah%201980.gif |
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 2:22:50 PM
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| Karen - yes do contact me if you come to Stithians -its not far from me. Did your mare go to Mustaphah (guess that is who Penny is) He is one my all time favourites -is he still standing at stud? He disappeared off the show scene years ago and haven't heard much of him since. |
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Taylor
Gold Member
England
1432 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 7:00:17 PM
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Once again thankyou Egbert! Cealestis is a lovely sweet mare and very beautiful she is 15 now. The first picture in my signature is of me and Raydon Prince, it was my first time handling in the show ring and I had so much fun he is such a gentleman. Heres a bigger picture incase you cant see it. Still looking good at 18.
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 8:42:34 PM
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Taylor,
Thank you so much for putting up the picture...Apparently I can't see signatures/pictures...Haven't a clue why not, so would have totally missed this. Am just thrilled to see how much like his dad he is in this picture. Hmmm would love to see some baby photos too!
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Taylor
Gold Member
England
1432 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 9:20:43 PM
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Glad you liked the picture Egbert heres a few more for you. This is Cealestis a few years back
Another one of Raydon Prince
Here is me and Quo Vardis, Cealestis full brother.
Quo Vardis again
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 01:56:40 AM
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Taylor,
Cealestis is stunning! Have you shown her? Only one picture, the side view of Quo Vardis came through, not the one with you. Clearly you have some absolutely gorgeous horses and hopefully you are showing them as well. It is tough if you are trying to work and show at the same time but these are horses that should be seen. |
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Taylor
Gold Member
England
1432 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 1:50:05 PM
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Thank you Egbert, unfortunately the horses do not belong to me they are only kept here with me where I live, but I am lucky enough to be able to do what I like with them and I do think of them like my babys aswell. Hopefully will get to do some more showing next year. As yet I have not shown Cealestis but it is something I would love to do Thanyou again for your nice comments.
Cant understand why you cant see the other picture. Here is the link so hopefully you will be able to view it http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6659/shario0.jpg
Would it be possible for me to email you Egbert? Or if you prefer not to post your email address on here email me at kirsty.taylor@gmail.com |
Edited by - Taylor on 16 Oct 2006 5:16:38 PM |
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Topic |
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Tail Female Line....?
