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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 6:44:23 PM
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I thought that a piccy might round things off so here is Nigra-Zscheiplitz Bred by Baron von Biela de Zscheiplitz and much admired by Raswan. Incidentaly the Baron aquired both her parents from the Konigsfeld stud which also bred Kurdo III who was sold to a circus before being exported to Argentina by the Ayzera brothers one of whom bred Dejen whilst also breeding some Kurdo III daughters which were then imported to Spain by the Duc de Veragua.
And this is Victoria II (RSD Dark Victory x Hillah NA) photographed in Paris by Erwin Escher and ironically registered in Germany at the time!
Mike |
Edited by - Mike on 10 Nov 2005 10:03:54 PM |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 9:31:51 PM
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Should anyone be interested, I can tell the tale of how the daughter of a TB mare ends up being considered a purebred arab by generations of experts and breeders
Mike |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 11:14:54 PM
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| C'mon Mike.....dont keep us all in suspense!! |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 03:52:17 AM
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Long long ago in days of yore, in a land far far away (called Yorkshire by the hardy folk who lived there)there was bred by a Mr Eddison in 1842 a fine Thoroughbred filly called Maria. Maria's sire was Jereed and her dam was an un-named(orat least no name was recorded) daughter of the great racehorse and sire Whisker out of the mare Matilda. Maria was presumably a pretty decent sort of horse as aged 11 she was sold for Ł150. So in the September of 1853 Maria arrived in her new home, one of the great studfarms of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, namely Piber! Piber is of course a household name for its Lippizaners but up until 1853 other light horse breeds were bred and raised there as well. So Maria arrived at Piber just as all the non-Lippizaners were being transferred (sold) elsewhere! All the oriental horses were sold to Babolna in Hungary and the TB's were sold to Kisbér which is/was also in Hungary. Maria was duly sold to Kisbér for 975 florins and arrived there in 1854. Maria spent the next six years at Kisbér but in 1861 she travelled to nearby Babolna where on 3rd May she was covered by the asil arabian stallion Aghil Agha. The following year, the resulting filly foal was born. Maria and her daughter were then sold to Mezöhegyes for 3354 florins. At this point a couple of registration errors creep in. Maria is recorded in the Mezöhegyes studbook as an English TB by Jareed out of Mathilda by Whisker and at Babolna the filly is registered is registered as being out of Maria an anglo-arab mareHowever it is still quite clear that 3 Aghil Agha isn't a purebred mare but an anglo Maria herself died in 1865. One other peculiarity is that unlike the others the markings and whorls of Maria's 1862 foal aren't recorded in the Mezöhegyes studbook. The "fun" starts with the publication in 1867 of "Allgemeines österreichisches und ungarisches Gestüt-Buch" (General Studbook of Austria and Hungary) compiled by Otto Mayr. This is a tome in three parts, the first part being for horses of "Pure English Blood" ie TB's, the second part is for "Pure Anglo-Oriental" horses and the third part is an appendix for horses of "Pure Eastern Blood" ie arabians. Naturally enough Maria appears on page 111 of section one, her death in 1865 is recorded and the entry for her 1862 foal reads "Mare z. by Aghil Aga (Arabe), Bábolna." No problems there!
In section two(Anglo's) on page 230 appears "Maria bred by Baron Wenckheim, 1862 by Aghil Aga out of Maria, by Jereed out of Whisker mare". Logically this must be the foal, also apparently now called Maria, referred to on page 111 under her dam's entry.
However in section three (purebred arabians) on page 241 there appears "Aghil Agha, mare z., born in Bábolna, 1862, by Aghil Aga out of Maria (no. 30)." This is to become the "definitive" record of arabian breeding in the Austro-Hungarian empire for the majority who don't have access to the hand written studbooks of the studfarms themselves and Mayr unfortunately seems to have mistakenly entered the same horse under two different names in two seperate sections. Unless there were two Maria's of course! Late 19th century European breeders were very comfortable with horses names containing both Roman and Arabic numerals, so over time Maria(no. 30) became 30-Maria which fitted the naming convention rather better and her descendants were purebred because the studbook said they were.
The Konigsfeld stud incidently was founded in 1860 following the purchaseof two mares from the Abbas Pasha "dispersal" sale in that year when Baron Konstantin Heinrich von Nitzschwitz made a trip to Egypt on the advise of his doctor and also on the steamer was Baron Julios von Hügel who was going to the sale to buy horses for the Weil stud. When the two mares turned out not to be pregnant on arrival in Germany, Baron von Nitzschwitz purchased 9 stallions and 8 mares from Weil. On the death of Heinrich von Nitzschwitz in 1900, the stud passed to his brother Emil who died in 1912. Both brothers were batchelors and the heirs began dispersing the horses after Emil's death. The castle was destroyed by fire in 1945 and the stud records it contained were also lost. At its height the stud numbered between 60 and 80 horses.
Mike
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Edited by - Mike on 11 Nov 2005 03:53:55 AM |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 08:36:30 AM
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Well I am flabergasted My flabber has never been so gasted not at the result of the story, just that we have amongst us such a learn- ed person, Mike you leave us all in the dunce dept when it comes to arab history and much can be learnt from someone like you, how on earth do you find time to read all this????? |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 09:02:02 AM
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| Wow Mike.....what a story and as Linda says what a learned person you are especialy on the Arabian. Gosh! Well done! Give us more!!! |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 12:42:19 PM
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Hi All 20 questions competitors I have been through the whole thread adding up the scores and I make Stuart the over all winner with 30 points it was hard because it got a bit confusing when Bob set a question but didnt name the question number ( naughty boy ) and it was a three or four part question, but anyway if anyone has a problem with the scores can you let me know also if there is to be another 20 questions I think it needs to be more simple in rules ie; not several parters, just one question and one answer, also that someone like Mike should set the next 20 questions, what about it Mike and try not to make it too difficult so that more people can enter and enjoy mean time if no one objects to the score I will go ahead and sort out Stuarts prize ! |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 2:02:01 PM
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I don't mind setting some questions,if that's what you want!
Mike |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 2:26:26 PM
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Hi Mike, fantastic story and are there "pure" descendants of 30-Maria still around today
Yes please Mike, set us some questions - we desperately need your input.
Many thanks |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
      
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 4:23:50 PM
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Hi Jude,
WAHO approved 30-Maria in 1974, so yes she has living purebred descendants! These may concievably also include descendants of one or more of the "Veragua Mares" as the Duq's stud included six mares with 30-Maria blood just a few years before the Spanish Civil War.
Q1 Janów Podlawski is the oldest of the Polish State Studs, but in what year was it established?
Mike |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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stuart
Silver Member
United Kingdom
335 Posts |
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nicolanapper
Platinum Member
England
4247 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 6:39:49 PM
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What a lot of learned people there are. I could not hope to answer any of these questions but I am enjoying reading the questions and answers, and that fascinating last one from Mike. What interesting reading.
Nicky |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 7:59:13 PM
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Janów Podlawski Stud was established in 1816 by the decree of Tsar Alexander I of Russia.
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 8:01:47 PM
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| Stuart, you have been awarded an Arabianlines teeshirt! please can you e mail Admin you size and address they are waiting to hear from you ,well done to you! |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
Edited by - LYNDILOU on 11 Nov 2005 8:03:02 PM |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2005 : 11:36:02 AM
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Well, there are actually two dates in the literature for the establishment of Janów, namely 1816 & 1817! I believe that the decree was signed in 1816 (well done Geegee!) and that work actually commenced at the site of the stud in 1817. However 1817 is the date referred to by Janów themselves and so I will take that year to be the "correct" answer Well done Stuart![:8D][:8D]
Q2 Is a nice easy one .....
Which famous horse was named after a mode of transport?
MIke |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Lynda
Platinum Member
England
1957 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2005 : 2:23:55 PM
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| Would anyone like to contribute to the Arabianlines magazine. We would really like to have articles on stallions and mares of yester-year, and there seem to be many highly knowledgeable folk here. |
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