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gabriele ault
Gold Member
Wales
782 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 5:13:27 PM
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Thanks -I love these lines. My very first Arab nearly 30 years ago was closely related to these lines and I spend a lot of time with some breeders in germany who specialized in Marbach lines - they had kovely horses but unfortunately are not breeding anymore and only have a handful of oldies left.
Gabriele |
 Gabriele
www.silversun-enterprises.webs.com |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 5:50:22 PM
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Well done again Gabriele, I too am a big fan of the Marbach horses
This question is very simple but possibly more difficult!
Who is this horse?
Mike |
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gabriele ault
Gold Member
Wales
782 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 5:57:37 PM
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The horse is grey ...... and was born in 1936
Mike |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 7:32:55 PM
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Very true, but this horse isn't Sid Abouhom, nor is he SE or (for a change perhaps ) have any SE's in his pedigree Come to think of it he has no Crabbet, GSB or Ali Pasha Sherif blood either Though he is (or was) asil, I could give you his strain if you like?
Mike
PS I did say this one wasn't easy didn't I? |
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gabriele ault
Gold Member
Wales
782 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 8:09:34 PM
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Sorry once again, unfortunately he has no Spanish blood either
Mike |
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BobandEna
Gold Member
England
828 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 8:15:12 PM
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Thanks for setting a great question, but now we know the horse it’s possible to answer you question
“And (as Bamber Gascoigne used to say) here is your next starter for ten
“What impact did this horse have on Arab breeding in the UK and why?”
*Mameluck was a grey stallion born at the Marbach Stud in West Germany in 1969. That is more or less a physical description, but it requires many more words than that to give you a good picture of this very special horse.
*Mameluck sired a few foals in Germany before he was purchased by Dr. Alex Tubel and exported to the United States. He sired many foals in the United States and Canada before being exported back to Europe late in life. He died August 1995 at the age of twenty-six.
His mother was Moheba 11, a mare described as being of great beauty and type. *Mameluck was the third foal of Moheba 11, the first two being fillies. To compare a picture of Moheba 11 and *Mameluck one amazes at how look alike they were. Same small well shaped ear, identical eye, very similar head, and even the same marking on the nose both were flea bitten greys and pictures typically show both mother and son with their tail flipped over their back. Moheba 11's mother was Malacha, a bay mare conceived in Egypt and imported in utero. In 1955, Prince Knyphausen imported the mare Moheba who was in foal to El Sareei, as well as the two-year-old Nazeer son, Ghazal from Egypt to become the foundation of his Luetesburg stud. Malacha was Mohebas only straight Egyptian offspring and considered her most significant. She was in turn bred to Ghazal and produced Moheba 11. Ten years after the importation, in 1965, mother and daughter Malacha and Moheba 11 were leased to the Marback State Stud. At Marback, Moheba 11 was consistently bred to the Nazeer son Hadban Enzahi to produce an outstanding series of full siblings. *Mameluck was the second foal to be born of this auspicious cross.
*Mameluck's father Hadban Enzahi was born in 1952 at El Zahraa in Egypt a direct result of the breeding philosophies of the great General Pettko Szandtner. His father was Nazeer, his mother was Kamla and in Egypt he was known as Kamel. When he was imported to Germany, his name was changed to Hadban Enzahi which was appropriate as that was the strain of his sire and his dam. Hadban Enzahi was a very correct horse and his offspring became noted for a great persistence of type, but most especially their hardiness and energy. *Mameluck combined the best of his mother and father. Pretty like his mother, strong, correct and hardy from his father.
Marmeluck has left many sons, and perhaps even better than his sons, are his daughters. Marmaluck himself left no get in the UK, but his most noted offspring is probably Melchior (out of Mansahi) born before *Mameluck left Germany as a young horse did and what a glittering star studded lot they were
Melchior was imported to England, and he and his offspring have exerted a very strong influence on British Arabian horse breeding. Melchior won the Get-of-Sire class at Ascot in 1980, 1981, and 1983. In 1984 he placed second but was overall Leading Sire of the Year, a title that he won again in 1985. The Shah is credited as being the horse that changed the way, we British, looked at Arabian horses, But it was Melchior that propelled this new look forward, for his appeal outstripped The Shah, of coarse Mrs Trimingham used him on all he best mares, the list of owners who used him was as impressive as his get The Duchess of Rutland, Mrs Joan Radcliff, Mr Pit-Rivers, Shirley Watts and many more.
For J & A Martin he gave the wonderful BNC Dalweish and for Ann Potts the Exquisite Mustapha and the list goes on, but for me the remarkable thing about Melchior was his ability to keep the mare owners coming back, year after year, looking to repeat the last years results, the mark of a truly great Stallion.
SORRY BEST PAL but you did ASK.
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
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BobandEna
Gold Member
England
828 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 8:31:00 PM
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Sorry Bob .... no English blood either! His sire was born in Europe though......
Mike |
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BobandEna
Gold Member
England
828 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 9:11:56 PM
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IS it Germany again and The Pyramid Society: ?
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 9:17:35 PM
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Sorry Bob, no German connection this time and as I said earlier the horse isn't Egyptian and has no egyptian blood at all and so therefore there can be no connection to the Pyramid Society either.... sorry ....
Mike |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 9:32:53 PM
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He could be of Skowronek lines - perhaps via Ferzon?
Sorry - I hadn't seen the previous postings where you said he had no Polish lines.
Should we look to Babolna for answers?
Anne
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I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
Edited by - Anfi on 10 Jun 2007 9:39:26 PM |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 9:55:16 PM
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Lynda,
Hamdan is a good guess and looking at the pic I have of him does not rule him out.
However, Mike said previously that this horse was not SE and that his sire was born in Europe, which does rule out Hamdan, I guess.
I think we can summarize that this horse is not European (although his father was born in Europe), not SE, nor English, Spanish, Polish, German nor any Ali Pasha Sherif lines.
Could he be American? |
I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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BobandEna
Gold Member
England
828 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 10:07:14 PM
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Yaaay progress, the father was indeed from France
Mike |
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BobandEna
Gold Member
England
828 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 10:44:53 PM
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Mike,
Could I establish that this horse was never in the SBFRA but his sre was?
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 11:24:51 PM
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Hi Bob,
Yes the horses sire was bred & registered in France, whilst the horse himself was bred & registered elsewhere
Mike |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Topic |
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Topic Locked 
but not tonight my brain aches looking at all my books