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Wyllow
Platinum Member
 United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
 Posted - 12 May 2005 : 1:19:39 PM
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Chlio had her front shoes removed seven weeks ago after a lot of thought and asking of questions. Several friends from Alines replied and recounted their own experiences. Michelle ( Ghaleem)has kindly asked after Chlio and her progress and I've replied but I thought it may be useful to open up the topic of bare feet again for anyone thinking of "baring" and so those with horses going "au naturel".
Chlio's feet were trimmed and filed ~ not exactly a trim after Strasser of any other barefoot advocate ~ just a good trim and shape with rather more attention than your average pasture trim, much after the fashion my ponies had when I was a youngster when few of us had them shod unless we were doing a lot of hacking on the roads.
I then left her to adjust to this with a couple of weeks unridden.
After this, she has been lightly ridden and schooled with a little pole and grid work on grass.
She's fine. I'm not asking much in the way of "performance", I know but from the growth and hardness of her hooves, it looks like she could do FAR more with no ill effects.
Here's an interesting thing ~Although probably predictable: There is a definite change in the quality of horn. The line defining the time when the shoes came off is distinct. Below, the hooves are of a lesser quality than above it. Here, the new horn looks thicker and denser and I dare say it's because the foot can MOVE now and the circulation is enhanced, leading to better nutrition of the structures? Correct me if I'm talking nonsense?!
Anyway, the biggest change is in the ACTION!
Chlio always did the floaty Arab trot and bouncy "pronk"....but now she FLIES along as if NEVER making contact with the ground at all!!!!
The toes flick out and the whole movement is looser and freer.
I could cry with the sheer beauty of it ~ it's like a child who has taken off a pair of mud encrusted boots and is now dancing barefoot in the grass.
I cannot find fault with the way my mare was sympathetically, gently and neatly shod before but the difference is STARTLING!!!!!!
Ummmm.....I'm now thinking of Jasper.....and HIS hinds are off and his feet looking hard and well balanced, his pastern angle has altered giving more of a slope ~ I'd take off the fronts tomorrow if I were not convinced that if he got out of the habit of being shod, that he'd try to flatten the next farrier who tried! But I'd LOVE to see if his action improves. He has hooves like granite, so he's hardly in danger of getting sore.
Anyone else gone bare lately or got any news and views on "natural" feet and the working horse?
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Caro23
Gold Member
United Kingdom
617 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 3:20:41 PM
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Hi! How are you?
Was really interested to read about you taking Chlio's shoes off. Have long been considering taking Dulcie's off - she only has natural balance on her fronts but her back feet are so tough and she is never foot sore on them. We do hack out on mixed ground so she'd need to be okay with that. I had a bad experience with my 19 year old Fjord mare who had a bad farrier experience last year so her shoes were taken off - she was terribly sore, couldn't be ridden (I tried boots but they didn't work) she got too fat and developed terrible laminitis soon afterwards. After last year... on box rest and £5000 later she has actually recovered and is being ridden again but now has natural balance on her front feet. I will definitely be leaving hers on now but would love Dulcie to be barefoot. Please keep us in touch with how Chlio is doing over the next few months with her toes!! Is it better to go barefoot at this time of year or wait until winter? We have a KC La Pierre trimmer who visits our yard who seems to do a great job although transition seems to take ages and Dulcie really needs to be ridden as much as possible.
xx
Caro and Dulcie
PS Can't wait 2 weeks until my Jersey hols!! |
Caro
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 4:36:59 PM
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 This is a interesting subject as my 6year old has always been barefoot and will continue to do so as long as he is healthy and his feet suffer no adverse effects..
 in fact i was delighted when he came to me bare foot he has great feet and i dont see any reason why i should change that ' if ain't broken dont fix it'
my other gelding has natural balance all round , i would dearly love to have him barefoot
but think @ 14 it might be too late to adjust to the change ...
Caro , have you read the thread from me on fao forum from myself & moonfruit re the rides?? |
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bertie
Silver Member
252 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 4:44:39 PM
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If you think that Jasper is OK to go barefoot, then why not try it? He would still have the farrier attend to his feet, so it's not like he's forgot who the farrier is!
Podge's hooves are like granite - he's fine walking out around the roads when we long-rein and because he can wear his hooves as he see's fit, he sorts out his own point of breakover and rounds off his own toes!! His frogs are large and healthy and so do the job that nature intended them for?
I'm glad that Chlios taking so well to being BF. If you think the change on horn quality is amazing now, wait until she fully grown out the old 'shod' horn and is onto the next growth of un-shod horn ~ it will be tighter and harder again |
tara x
~
The only things guaranteed in life with driving Teamsters is Taxes, Death & Runaways!!
   
(Pastal by Nicci Hamilton)
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 4:50:49 PM
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Hi Wyllow,
Guess you dont check the FAO section very often
I am really glad that Chlio is doing well, your lucky that you have a good farrier (cheaper than an EP i bet).
I had my EP out on Tuesday and he confirmed what i thought, that i had been doing too much with Khalifa. I took it for granted that he has good feet and didnt give him chance to transition.
Anyway he advised me to not ride him for a while and to walk him out everyday in pressure pads . At least Ghaleem is ok. I feel a bit negative at the moment and have considered putting natural balance back on Khalifa's fronts. I will see how he goes in the next few weeks. Going barefoot is alot more work and more expensive than i thought but i'm gonna give it a go. I'm not in the ideal place to be barefoot, alot of roadwork and the horses are out 24/7 so thier feet are contantly wet in the summer.
I am really lucky that my EP is a vet and his partner is the UK cordinator for KC La Pierre. I meet KC at a talk he was giving near me and he is a really nice guy, alot of interesting things to say as well!
Gosh look at me! I could talk about barefoot forever!
Do you go on the intelligent horsemanship forum i recently posted on there, there's always something about barefoot on there?.
Michelle xxx |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 4:51:23 PM
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Hi Caro and Dulcie!!
Please do give us a shout if you'd like to come and say hello when you're in Jersey! You can say "Hi" to Chlio and the rest of the herd, including the miniature stallions and the infamous FOWLS!!
I'll certainly keep everyone up to date with Chlio's toes!
She isn't in very demanding work as I've said, but frankly, I'd love to step it up a bit to wear her feet down !!
She had a trim last week and the farrier did round her toes off which made it clear that they really had grown ~ sometimes you wonder with a barefoot horse, especially when you're staring at them several times a day!
If she has tough hinds, it's a good sign for generally getting an idea of the quality of horn. If she's working by engaging her quarters and lifting her forehand, she shouldn't be wearing her fronts exceptionally ~ although fronts always do seem to take more of the brunt regardless of how light a horse appears on the forehand.
I suppose there is only one way to find out!
If you have a farrier who likes to use natural balance and a trimmer who does KC , then I think you have people well up on a variety of foot care ~ I'd chat to them ~ but you know your mare and her feet!
Thing is, you can try it and just give her a little time to adjust first, then work her lightly and see how she goes ~ especially until the nail holes wear out and then a fully intact piece of horn rather than a punctured one will be taking her weight. It make take a few months to get a true picture and some would say a complete hoof growth to get a completely true picture of how she works barefoot. The thing is, if she is "footy" and doesn't appreciate it, you can always get the NB shoes back on!
I took Chlio's shoes off when the ground was still soft, although coming into the drier time of the year with the hope that she'd toughen up as the ground hardened. I did let her adapt before I rode her again ~ but she seems no different ~ just "lighter" and maybe a little prancier.
It will be interesting to see how things go in the driest and hardest part of the year.
Anyone got any thoughts about letting horses stand in water or applying moisturiser ~ NOT oil ~ to keep hooves flexible when barefoot?
Something I picked up on in the States last year on the ranch and considering the milage the Arabs out there do on stony trails,ridden maybe twice or three times a week, some unshod ~ I was amazed at how sound and sure footed they all were.
Chlio has January and February more or less off and isn't ridden every day in Spring but is ridden far more in the summer and Autumn.
So, it will be interesting to see how things go.
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
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Renee
Gold Member
539 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 6:32:58 PM
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Hi Wyllow,
My horses have all been barefoot for ages, even when ridden - and it's pretty stony off-road here. I've recently changed from a conventional farrier to the KC La Pierre trimming. I have a friend who is quite a long way through the KC La Pierre training, and she's just started to work on my horses alongside an experienced trimmer who's too busy to do all of mine. I'm very happy with what's been done, and it all seems to make a lot of sense to me. My friend says it's important to condition the feet once you start this sort of trimming, with walking on the roads, etc, and gradually building up. As Michelle says, it's a big commitment.
Not sure about the water thing, I've heard completely opposing views!
Renee |
      
Jeago (Ludomino x Bahia) 1973-2007 & Khylie* (Nazdrowie x Kaminah) 1990-2010 ~ Fouad el Khyl (Lothar el Nyhl x Khylie) 2005- |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 7:03:25 PM
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Hi Michelle!
*Smiles*
I reckon our posts crossed in the post ~ as I've replied to you in FAO!!!!
Tara, yes, I reckon Jasper would be great, it's the thought of him just being out of practice with NAILS!!!! Grrrr! Were I thinking that he'd never leave my care, I'd whip them off today as he's like concrete in the foot dept!As it is, if I could find him someone caring and gentle who wouldn't demand stuff but ask nicely although firmly ~ I'd let him go as he is wasted here, really and I could do with concentrating on the two girls. Sad, but kids not as keen as I am I suppose. Glad your Podge is still happily bare! Yes, frogs become HUGE when left to their own devices and who needs studs when they are natural grippers!!! Bare feet are definitely perfect for horses who have good uns and they all start out with reasonable ones so I applaud your decision to keep him as he is.
Renee, Hi!
Yes, I've heard it said that a horse's feet adapt to the work so conditioning CONSISTENTLY is important.
I've heard totally opposing views about water, so it will be interesting to hear some more!
I paddle horses if I'm on the beach, but since the roads have got so leathal around here, we don't do that a whole lot any more. Shame!
Anyway, I think what goes into the foot from the inside is more important and so I make sure their nutritonal intake is balanced and supplemented as advised by the farrier. Probably far more use than soaking! |
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 7:10:44 PM
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| Hi Renee, sorry i didnt get back to you about the saddle, had a think about it and not sure how much showing i can do this year. Spent all my money on a holiday now anyway. Hope to see you at Wales and West though. Michelle xxx |
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Tinkerbell
New Member
United Kingdom
17 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 7:37:35 PM
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I want to keep my filly barefoot when she starts to work but don't know if I need a specialist farrier?
My farrier is due soon to give the normal trim and I will ask him about it then but what have you guys done? |
Leila
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moonfruit
Silver Member
England
475 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 8:01:57 PM
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Another very interested party here, so please do keep posting guys! (Did also reply on FAO, but will pop it in here too!).
Amira's feet are rock hard, and my previous Arab also had good feet (typical of the breed??) and I often rode him without shoes, though that was 10 years ago, and I'd never heard about barefoot as it's now called. I will seriously consider this route when I have the time and money (need job first!!). Are the trims more costly than a set of shoes, after the feet have 'transitioned' and you're just getting regular trims? Also, is it more slippy barefoot on wet ground (we have chalk which gets wet & turns into an ice slope on the hills!)? |
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MirandaToo
Silver Member
England
381 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 8:46:10 PM
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Interesting reading! Glad to hear that going BF is working out for you! I had my old pony's shoes taken off when she was about 18 after having been shod all her life, because I thought I would start winding her down. However once she went barefoot she seemed to get a new lease of life. I just had her trimmed by my farrier and kept An eye on her feet. She went on to carry on hacking on the roads 3 or 4 times a week, and never had a prob with her feet, in fact they were unbelievably healthy!
Personally I think it's all down to what farrier you have. My arab used to have healthy feet, BUT due to poor shoeing previously she had tiny feet and one front foot was a whole size smaller than the other. She was really unbalanced and used to "fall" onto my right leg all the time. My farrier let her feet expand - it took what seemed like forever!,until he was able to get both feet the same size and then rebalanced them - the difference was AMAZING!!!! The first time I rode her after this she was totally straight, totally balanced, floated along, AND dropped straight onto the bit!!!
So I think whether you go BF or shod the most important thing is to get a brilliant farrier who will take the time to get the foot right!
Let us know how you get on BF - bet your horses are much happier! |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 9:01:40 PM
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I think it really helps to have knowledgeable people with lots of experience with dealing with lots of different horses in different situations so that you can be assured that they have an answer for nearly everything that might worry you or need addressing. Yes, a good farrier and one who trims for barefoot work rather than just a turn out trim is essential.
My farrier is not a specialised barefoot trimmer as such but a man who has a life time of working with horses who have been barefoot as well as shod. He does a slightly different trim for a working barefoot horse ~ his pasture trim is far more basic.
He is happy to advocate bare feet if he thinks the horse will adapt well, and although I pay him less, obviously, he doesn't seem to have a problem with it and actually suggested I take Chlio's shoes off altogether and the hinds off the other two, assuring me they'd be fine ~ he wasn't wrong! |
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Basilisk
Gold Member
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 1:47:42 PM
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Isn't it funny how old experience gets dressed up as a 'new breakthrough' every so often?
Out of my 4 purebreds old enough to be shod, only one ever has been. And she hasn't worn shoes for the last 16 years. I find that for 'normal' work, they don't need it (my one who was shod only needed it if she was doing a lot of work on tarmac every day). I've had my farrier for longer than he'd like me to say, apart from a spell when we lived off his "manor" and had one of his mates instead (an ex Sgt-Instructor from Melton), and they never found any problems worse than the odd spot of thrush in wet winters. The former shoe wearer only gets trimmed twice a year, whether she needs it or not (joke).
I can remember reading several accounts back in old copies of the News (in the format before the format before the current one, even!) of unshod Arabs who had no problems...
Keren |
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joanna_piana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3935 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 2:31:43 PM
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| Does anyone do any jumping barefoot? My new forest has never been shod and hacks out quite happily on roads and stony paths but a couple of people have said that if she starts doing a lot of jumping she will then need shoes - any thoughts? My arab mare has recently changed to the semtex (?sp) shoes and they have made a wonderful difference to her, she used to have a very poor walk and trip a lot but now strides out beautifully. I did think about taking her shoes off but heard it took up to a year to adjust so went the other route instead. |
      
Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire |
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 5:24:59 PM
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| Had my two trimmed by my vet other day who is also a EP, it cost me £80 so the same as shoes i suppose. Michelle xxx |
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Wendy Allan
Silver Member
United Kingdom
310 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 10:56:33 AM
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Another subject of interest to me. I changed farrier last year after my dark suspicions over my previous one became reality. Good farriers are hard to come by in our neck of the woods, so I took a risk and asked a newly qualified farrier to take on my lot. He is only about 21/22 but he really knows his stuff. We tried to let Annie go barefoot last October, but she developed laminitis almost immediately. The laminitis was caused by the trauma to the foot of a pretty good trim - her feet are now less than half the length that my previous farrier had allowed them to grow to.
We ended up fitting Imprint shoes every 3 weeks until the beginning of April to give her feet the support she needed while her feet were shortened to their correct length. At the beginning of April we had a pair of proper, grown up shoes put on while we assessed her need (or not) for frog support. She was sound enough and happy enough for the shoes to be removed 10 days ago and is now a happy barefoot pony. We can see that she is a little tender still on stony ground, but she is happy enough to act like a youngster - bucking at the other two and taking running leaps at them to play. My farrier has ambitions for Susie to go the same way - excluding the laminitis and Imprints, of course!! His theory seems to be that shoes are a necessary evil in a lot of cases, but if you can do without then do it. He says that, generally speaking, most horses will end up self trimming to realign any deformities in the hoof by the way they stand and use their feet on different types of ground. He has also muttered that even poor Tara might manage better barefoot once her feet have settled down again, but we'll have to think long and hard about that, I think. |
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nicolanapper
Platinum Member
England
4247 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 2:29:35 PM
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Hi Everyone, glad this thread is on again. My pure bred Arab is now 5 and has never had shoes on. My farrier says he sees no need to unless we were going to do an awful lot of road work. The same goes for the 6 year old pure bred kept with us on livery. We bred my boy and from weaning started to 'condition' him by taking him out once or twice a week on the roads to get him used to being out and traffic proofing him at the same time.
I ride at the moment most weekends (am hoping to ride more in September when my youngest starts nursery school 3 days a week. My boys feet are as hard as nails and he never stumbles. He did go through a patch of skidding on the road when I first mounted up, but this we put down to his cold back which appears to have stopped now that he has had some recent training.
I would definitely advocate barefoot. My Welsh mare is 13 and also has no shoes on, but she did until 3 years ago. She does though get foot sore on very hard ground, and having had laminitis and some degree of pedal rotation I have to be careful. However, the vet and farrier are keeping a close eye on her and as long as she is not trotted on the road only on grass on sandschool, they are happy for her shoes to remain off.
Nicky |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 5:17:25 PM
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This is all very encouraging stuff for barefoot horse owners and it's great to see an update on everyone's barefooted friends.
Yes, I'm wondering about Milly's feet, as I'd love to see her with natural feet all around. She is fine behind, but with having had laminitis three years, I wonder if the fronts would stand it.
Usually it's reccommended that driving ponies have fronts, but Milly isn't going to go anywhere near a roadand will only be asked to drive on grass or softish surfaces.
Still, support for some horses and ponies might be seen as a necessary unpleasantness....I have a mind to get them taken off for her "winter holiday" and see how she is.
I remember a time ( ye Gods, how OLD am I??) When we ALL had our horses' shoes taken off for the winter if they worked or showed/jumped in the summer....or taken off the hunters in the summer and put back in the winter!!
At least horses then did get a chance to have a break from shoes and I'm sure it helped!
Does anyone still do this, by the way? Shoes off and out to grass in the "off season" ?
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Renee
Gold Member
539 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 8:08:39 PM
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Hi all,
I have an interesting and new perspective on this, being currently indisposed due to a foot problem. I went to my GP, and said 'I think I've got laminitis...' (bulging nail, pain in toe, desire to stick feet out forwards on the sofa, heat and swelling and maybe the merest hint of a digital pulse...)
Before you could say 'Farrier's Formula', I was rushed into hospital and had toe surgery on Friday for a possible tumour under the nail. It was horrible, the nail was taken off and stuck back on again. I just shut my eyes and 'went to a happy place', with my lovely OH holding my hand and talking about lovely horses and foals and things... It turns out that it was all thanks to my gelding rearing up and standing on the toe 27 years ago, damaging the joint and a cyst forming recently... I don't think I'll ever have another horse shod again!
As a result I am 8/10ths lame on the off hind, on box rest, have my shoes off and will shortly be out to grass for a while...
Renee
P.S. Having lost a horse with laminitis due to cushings, no disrespect to anyone who's dealing with real horsy foot problems x |
Jeago (Ludomino x Bahia) 1973-2007 & Khylie* (Nazdrowie x Kaminah) 1990-2010 ~ Fouad el Khyl (Lothar el Nyhl x Khylie) 2005- |
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Basilisk
Gold Member
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2005 : 1:36:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joanna_piana
semtex (?sp) shoes
Semtex shoes?!? Well. *they* should help a jumper clear some impressive heights!
Keren |
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blue
Silver Member
United Kingdom
275 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2005 : 1:49:57 PM
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My little Milly is barefoot, and hopefully always will be...I say hopefully as she has an annoying habit of pawing the floor when shes in her stable which is making her toes square My new farrier has said to see how she goes as she isn't foot sore and hopefully as she is now out 24/7 it should improve. Anyway she does mainly road work (not much off road riding round here) and she seems to be coping really well
My old girl was barefoot for 3years before she retired, and when my auntie owned her she kept her barefoot, my auntie now has a 12yr old Arab gelding who is barefoot and again he does a lot of road work and copes really well |
Tema & The Girls |
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abcoboy
Silver Member
England
464 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2005 : 1:51:00 PM
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Oh what an interesting topic ... we were only discussing this the other day and it's really helped me come to a decision ...
I know lots of people who say exactly the same thing - barefoot is best and have all had no problems at all with having no shoes! Im going to leave my girl shoeless and keep having her trimmed for now. Our blacksmith charges £10 for a trim so cant complain! |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2005 : 2:23:14 PM
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Ah, are we owners perhaps beginning to see that nature knows best UNLESS we are making heavy demands on a horse or there is a very strong argument for having a foot that is compromised somehow supported?
I think many of us have just grown up with the idea that a horse gets shod....full stop and we've probably not thought much about it until someone mentions an alternative or, in the worst case, something goes wrong.
It's really good to see a debate open up about shoes V bare and all the reasons for wearing or bearing discussed....am I noticing a BIAS towards bare feet here?!?!?!
Renee ~ how horrible for you! I'm sending you all my best wishes for a recovery from lamness asap!!!! |
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joanna_piana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3935 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2005 : 09:24:36 AM
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| Ha ha blonde moment - cytek even! |
Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire |
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