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AstraZephyros
New Member
England
23 Posts |
 Posted - 27 May 2009 : 2:54:55 PM
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Hi, i usually ride my 7yo arab in a myler bit which he loves, he goes very well in it when schooling and jumping but for endurance rides/long fast hacks i find im having to pull alot to get him to slow down and listen as he gets very excited on endurance rides - only natural. However i hate pulling on his mouth as he is sensitive and soft mouthed so i have been considering a hackamore for endurance rides as a way of protecting his mouth, ive heard hackamores have good breaks if otherwise used sensitively? Please could people tell me their thoughts and experiences, i would very much appreciate it? And also, whats the difference (pros/cons) of the normal hackamore and a 'S' hackamore?? Thankyou so much in advance.
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
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AstraZephyros
New Member
England
23 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 3:12:36 PM
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| He's in a MB02 - comfort port snaffle, i was advised against the bits with shanks or combos etc by the lady from the bit bank. Both me and Astra (my horse) are very happy with his bit, its very kind and hes quiet in it except on endurance rides when i feel im pulling on it too much, im just trying to find a way to protect his mouth which is why i thought the hackamore might be good just for endurance. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 3:17:59 PM
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The English hackamore is the one you want - not the German version which is basically a bit of steel rope which you could stop a train with!
I used to ride my old mare in an English hackamore all the time, as she wasn't comfortable with any sort of bit (pre Myler days!), and she went really well in it. No problem with brakes OR steering 
Keren |
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deebee
Silver Member
262 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 3:32:12 PM
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I have the reverse, but you might find like me that you still have to exert pressure when out with others - I found that it was too much, the nose being nearly as sensitive as the mouth, with delicate nerves etc. Maybe you could give it a trial before you buy?
You might think about a rubber pelham; the chain would give you extra brakes without excessive pain in the mouth. If you did it right and used two reins you could only bring the chain into play if you needed it.
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 4:18:10 PM
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Having used many different bitless bridles over the years on many horses - I now use the S-Hackamore - much prefer them to English hackamores - they are much lighter & neater on the face. Here is Rowan in his:
I also use long shank Mylers & find them very good. |
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Hussar
Bronze Member
Scotland
56 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 5:22:15 PM
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| I have a thread on the Endurance forum about bitting (having discovered that a hackmore (English) on my Arab gave me no brakes at all) which you might find useful. Currently I'm having some success with a PeeWee bit, which seems to suit his mouth shape. |
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jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 6:04:02 PM
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Ditto to Hussar. Lomond has bolted with me several times on endurance rides when I've used an English hackamore!! He's fine with it at home or after he's done the first couple of vet gates on a ride....but it's an absolute "no no" on any rides of up to say 60km.  |
    
Borders, Scotland |
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AstraZephyros
New Member
England
23 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 9:40:21 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions everyone, handsome boy by the way Judith, i really like the look of the hackamore but its so hard to decide whats best because im really adverse to going down the root of harsher bits - i steer more the natural horsemanship way - but so much of that goes out the window when theres lots of other excited horses cantering around you! i just dont want to ruin his mouth, hes cremello aswell so his skin is so extra sensitive... however im mulling over a myler, the same mouthpiece he has now just with the combo/shanks for extra brakes only when needed, hmmm sorry! thinking out loud here!! Maybe i should just try that and the hackamore, see what happens ...  |
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rifruffian
New Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 10:22:52 PM
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| Hullo Judith S....who is supplier for the S-hackamore? |
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zaminda1
Bronze Member
177 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 09:30:38 AM
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| Love the idea that you can stop a train in a german hackamore, will have to tell my mare that next time she carts me in hers! I use an english one on my other horse with great results though! |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 10:57:06 AM
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| Lovely bridle Judith, where did you get it from and can I nick it when I come to see you? |
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AstraZephyros
New Member
England
23 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 11:18:59 AM
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Haha sorry Judith i also have a question for you, and also for zaminda1, how do you find the brakes with yours?!? in relation to what kind of temperaments your horses have anyway?? also, i dont know if this is where judith got hers, but you can buy them from Performance Equestrian, both english and S type hackamores  |
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deebee
Silver Member
262 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 12:47:37 PM
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Can I just say that while I understand the feeling about 'harsher bits', any bit or bitless can be harsh in the wrong hands, or situation. Anything with shanks or that uses a lever action will be harsh on the delicate areas outside the mouth, while any bit will be on the inside, if you are having to use excess force to regain control in a situation. It's all a question, at the end of the day, of what process your horse listens to the best in that situation.
I can see that even Judith's hackamore - which I do like - would need excessive force on my mare's nose and could create a great deal of pain to her, in an endurance ride; for this she definitely needs a bit!
I'm into 'natural' too - although of course it's not 'natural' to be riding them in the first place! but it's about what each horse and rider needs, that works best.
(um, this sounds a bit off; I don't mean to be sounding like I've got the hump, just wanted to clarify a point, really!  ) |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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AstraZephyros
New Member
England
23 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 9:17:28 PM
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Hi deebee, you dont sound like youve got the hump at all, i totally agree, but this is precisely why im trying to find out about different peoples experiences with hackamores. I often ride astra in a simple halter say, if we're doing a bit of western or going for a quiet hack by ourselves, but unfortunately this would just be suicide for both me and astra on an endurance ride!! his bit is very mild and i have as lighter hands as i possibly can which is why i hate tugging on his mouth so much in endurance rides  i just thought even if a hackamore can be slightly more severe but he reacts to the lightest touch then thats a lesser of the two evils, thats why i wanted to hear peoples experiences  i guess its a bit of a game of trial and error though as each horse is so different!!! |
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ali bali
Gold Member
Scotland
641 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 11:27:30 PM
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Hi, I have a clydesdale x who is built like a tank. When I first got him he had been ridden in a pelham with two reins. His mouth had been abused so much that he was able to pull like a train against the curb rein and maintain this for about 9 hours. He understandably also went everywhere with his mouth yawning open. Before I owned him I had first hand experience of this and no manner of tact and give/release could break through this problem. He was stoppable, barely, on the curb. He was not a happy horse in his mouth.
As soon as I got him I decided the only way to solve what had become a chronic problem was to take the bit out of his mouth. I decided to try him in an English hackamore. I was told by everyone that knew him I was a) brave b) mad or c) suicidal! Long story short he loved having the fear of the bit removed. He does try to get strong still but give and take (occasionally with a strong half halt thrown in if he starts to ignore it) and he is perfectly controllable.
I would never ride in the English hackamore if I thought that I would be in a situation that his adrenalin was so high I might have to take a constant hold in it, for two reasons. Firstly constant pressure on any nerve ending/pressure points (as used by the hackamore) deadens these nerves and reduces the effect. This then means the hackamore becomes less effective, you then need to take even more of a hold and it is a self reinforcing cycle. Secondly as the hackamore works on a leverage principal and also on pressure points I feel it would be only too easy to do damage to the nerve endings.
These are only my experiences using an English hackamore, very limited I must add! Never used a 'S' hackamore, sorry. Good luck in your search for an answer to the bitting problem, Im not looking forward to the time I have to bit my baby, I feel a real saga coming on then, LOL! |
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sapphire blue
Silver Member
England
440 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 09:28:23 AM
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| Hi, have you thought about the Amigo bridle i got one for my dad at xmas as we used to ride our gelding in an English hackamore but as his faced dried out it rubbed and pulled into his eye no matter what we did. We tried several bitless bridles and he loves this one and can be ridden in different levels of action for different activities. I also ride in a pee wee bit and am very happy and again it has different settings. Good luck bitting is a nightmare!! |
Regards, Sapphire
   
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deebee
Silver Member
262 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 11:50:46 AM
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Ta Astra - but you are definitely right to get as much information as you can; then you will need to try out new ideas on your horse and see which works.
One other thing, I would always introduce anything new slowly and in a controlled situation (preferably a school) so that they can get used to the differences first, before you need to do something extreme like take a pull - you probably would too, but it's just a thought - many people don't!
Ali it's a horrible example of bad riding; well done for listening to your horse and not all those 'experts'! |
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lulu
Gold Member
763 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 12:18:22 PM
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| Had a part bred mare that had done loads of endurance, she hated any type of bit and could not be stopped without taking a really hard pull, but she had also done western (not me) and had been ridden in a hackamore a german one, to the end of her life she went in it, I always rode on a lose contact and neck reined if necessary. Wouldn't use one on new horse though. Horses for courses. |
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zaminda1
Bronze Member
177 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2009 : 10:34:05 AM
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| I vary the bit so that they don't get too used to anything,and try to ride off the neck strap where possible. I vary between a ring bit, which you usually only see in racing as it encourages them not not grab hold too much. I also have a tom thumb gag, which has sweet iron mouthpice with copper inlays and rollers. I school and show jump in a plastic snaffle. I've come across quite a few horses that can get to used to bits and then ignore them! |
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