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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Mar 2009 : 09:41:20 AM
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Minhe ... nothing coincidental about Oran's blood in the pedigree of a very useful horse!!
He and other Crabbet horses eg Blue Domino, Ludo, Fari2, Mikeno, Bright Shadow, Indian Magic etc etc have left a wonderful legacy of sound, generous and athletic horses.
Debs, v good point re young humans ! Are you going to Pembrey Sunday?
Lisa |
lisa |
Edited by - lisa rachel on 24 Mar 2009 10:48:37 AM |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2009 : 10:27:15 AM
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Alistair there was a thread on the Showing section where we agreed we would list the local shows where there were Arab classes. I would have put my local show (half way between Banbury and Oxford) but this year's schedule omits Arabs, for the first time in at least 20 years! Last year there were only two entries but the year before there were two lines with loads of lovely partbreds and some very good purebreds.
I think the chicken is winning over the egg - and it's getting elderly and a bit creaky and is about to go off-lay! |
Roseanne |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 08:48:53 AM
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I wonder if the regional groups could maybe commence the fight back by planning an invasion of a local show?
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blue moon |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 09:30:01 AM
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A few years ago the Monmouth Group used to give special rosettes for the highest placed members in classes at local shows, maybe if rosettes were given for the highest placed Arab/AA/Pb in mixed classes instead, at this type of show it would encourage owners to participate. Who knows if the number of 'arab' competitors grew they might put on breed classes again.
Jean |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 09:47:51 AM
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HoCoN actually supported 3 local shows last year offereing rosettes and a trophy. We plan to do so again this year
As for the cost I have been quoted locally £250 per week for ridden show training, I can get show livery for £75 do there is a great disparity in the cost and this has meant that I cannot get our 5 year old out under saddle - I simply cannot afford it, shame as I think he is quite talented.
Yvonne
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 10:01:34 AM
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I think we have to go back to the beguinning and get in hand showing back to how it used to be beautiful and serene, no bagwaving,stamping feet, if they feel that there arab needs that to show itself it is very sad and perhaps they should be doing other things with that poor horse, this is the real reason for local shows cancelling arab classes, would you want your prescious horses upset by numpties doing that,when you are preparing them to ride/jump etc, do they do it at any other Horse show NO!!
Its steriotypical but they think that this is the norm, and us mear amateurs that just want to get our youngsters out for an education are penalised for the rest who do.
this is based on asking a number of local shows to me in Bristol why they have stopped all arab in hand classes. |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 10:07:53 AM
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Georgia Cheer told me that when the same happened in USA the regional groups started Arab quadrille groups and offered to display for county shows and local shows as entertainment .
Might work here too |
blue moon |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 11:21:14 AM
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I think it's a fantastic idea having the regional groups offering rosettes to the highest placed Arab. Not sure how you'd work it with a part-bred or Anglo as how would the judge know if it qualified? A purebred is pretty obvious (as are some part-breds).
I don't want to start an AHS bashing moment, but it would be fabulous if the AHS could have a stash of rosettes to give out to local shows for similar distribution. Why not for Arabs in jumping classes as well as ridden or in-hand showing?
I know it would cost a lot, but you can buy all the gear for making rosettes (I have a friend who does it and supplies shows). Could this be done by a band of volunteers? I wouldn't mind giving up some time to help, but it would probably be easier for people/regional groups/the AHS to pool the cost and get a big load done, then get a story in Horse and Hound. We might also be able to get their list of show organisers (from the show editions of the mag) and email them to offer rosettes for distribution to highest placed Arabs in classes.
There must be ways...
And I love the idea of displays/demonstrations by Arabs. That would really help change the image. |
Roseanne |
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 12:46:45 PM
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HI  I like your style Alistair
why not 'hijack' a local show!!!!...for example some of the regional AHS groups already have dressage teams in place..especially in the run up time to Malvern.
It wouldnt be to difficult ( as a example) to get these group of people togther who already have a common interest. - dressage.
To a local event and compete and it need not be 'affiliated' either.
I am in a dilema at the mo myself wether to attend a show on 5th April.. which I can enter RC horse only as it clashes with the only other class I can do - Riding Horse!
Or, go to the Priory and do a few dressage tests and have a more active day!
There are good venues all over the country and all it takes is one 'member' to pick a date and run with it.
I am willing to look into this for the S.E Region if anyone would like to join in.
We can take plenty of photos on the day , and think of all the attention it would recieve! fantastic!!! |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 08:39:35 AM
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Yeah Minhe , sorry I knew that this would not exactly be news to you  , thats why a put a at the end of the sentence... but recently someone was asking what lines to look for in a riding horse, I am a big fan of these lines so just slipped it in the converstaion.... sorry!
Hey everyone the rosette idea is a good one.
We already do it at RAGW, send rosettes, one for Purebreds, one for PBA /AA to show sec. with a letter of explanantion, contact details for RAGW on a sticker on the back of rosette. We don't just send to showing shows but things like TREC as well. It's nice at the prizegiving at the end of a competition for the Arabs to be recognised.... great PR.
Cheers
Lisa |
lisa |
Edited by - lisa rachel on 26 Mar 2009 08:41:43 AM |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 10:57:58 AM
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| Unfortunately im recovering from a big op at the moment, not sure doctor would approve of an outing, when is the AGM? perhaps i could get a friend to go along and voice my opinion for me. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 5:41:32 PM
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Read this thread with great interest,A lot of it as been covered before,We have the usual insults to people who show in hand, I do not blame them for not replying i do not think it will change the writers mind.
Perception can be misleading, I was told off for cheering my in hand show Mare at a show, i became exited after all We bred her trained her done it all ourselves and she won,This person had a good old rant,Fast forward a few Months i go to the Arab races the person who "told me off for cheering" was screaming her head off whilst her Jockey whipped her race horse to the line,Which horse was under stress,
The perception is the "wider Horse World" except little Jockeys whipping Horses to win so that is OK.
Without "in hand breeders" i fear the ridden fraternity would have a very limited choice in buying their ridden horse, Very few ridden people seem to breed their own,The cost of producing these youngsters is mind boggling for the return you get,
Food for thought.
Nick BBA |
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Sahir
Gold Member
England
847 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 5:51:54 PM
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Well said Nick !!
Surprising how all these "horse lovers" have such short memories, a rule for them and a rule for us it seems  Hope you reminded the race horse owner of her comments when your horse won - I know where I'd rather see my horse winning
Elaine xx |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 6:23:38 PM
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| I would like to see the percentage of inhand show horses that endure the constant bagwaving and the like, that actually go on to have a career as a sane ridden horse, did you report the person whipping the racehorse to the line, as there are rules with regards to that! I dont think it is an insult to ask for your horse to be shown without the circus at the inhand shows, it was always shown that way and i have to say the horses im sure enjoyed themselves without being scared to death. |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 6:46:18 PM
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Nick, I for one had no intention of insulting anyone and agree that done with respect for the horse in hand showing is an excellent education for a youngster. Many of my friends enjoy in hand showing.
It is not about 'them and us' it is just about all of us seeing the bigger picture and looking to the longterm welfare of the breed as well as caring for the wellbeing of our own horses.
Surely we all who love the Arab wish to preserve in full measure this wonderful inheritance from the Bedouin... a beautiful, gentle intelligent horse, fast, enduring and handy with the smoothest canter that feels like floating on a magic carpet, and above all loyal friend. That , to me is an Arab.
ALL of these virtues matter, but not all can be judged in hand and not all will be preserved if we only select on performance criteria either.
That is why it is important that Arab showing continues and why it is also important that Arabs are ridden in athletic disciplines, and above all why it is important that these are the same horses.
We know we have got it right when every youngster at an in hand show looks like a good potential riding horse and every Arab in ridden performance is instantly recognisable by his Arab type.
We are all on the same side aren't we?
(As for racing it is my personal opinion that the whip should be banned in racing, and I find the sight of a jockey 'whipping a horse home' quite horrible.)
Cheers
Lisa
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lisa |
Edited by - lisa rachel on 26 Mar 2009 6:50:22 PM |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 10:02:14 PM
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I totally agree with what you are saying Lisa.
Jean |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 11:43:11 PM
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Lisa we should all be singing on the same sheet,But the point i am trying to make is this constant stabbing at in hand showing,based on
This "wider Horse World". Does it really exist, Horse ownership is so diverse from pets to Derby winners how can you throw a blanket over that,
Perception again Arabians are "War Horses" we do not live in a library,
Being scared to death and circus and to*^ers have been mentioned,strong words but why what is the point of saying things like that other than to start a argument
Welfare of our fantastic breed should be our goal,What you do with yours as long as they are well cared for is your prerogative
What type you breed or own is also up to you,But why criticize others,
How many times have you read things like all in hand Horses have no legs just pretty heads blah,blah,blah,
Why say that when all Horses have leg faults?And no you cannot ride a "pretty head" But it sets our breed apart along with all their other great traits, In everything one persons meat,is anothers poison that is life.
Nick |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 08:07:46 AM
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I agree Nick that it is a bit of a cliche.
Just take a minute to look at the recent winners under saddle which mostly were also winner in-hand
One needs good conformation in each .
What a rare and beautiful sight to see a typey Arabian under saddle .
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blue moon |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 09:21:09 AM
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'One needs good conformation in each. What a rare and beautiful sight to see a typey Arabian under saddle'
Sums it up for me!
Jean |
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Edited by - weirton on 27 Mar 2009 09:21:53 AM |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 2:07:46 PM
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I hadn't picked up on insults to in hand showing specifically. I think the thread was about the loss of Arabian classes - both in hand and ridden and I agree, I think that is a shame.
As for the perception of the Arabian breed in "the wider horse world", we compete week in week out against other types and breeds. The majority of Arabian show people show against Arabs. I'm not aware of any mixed classes (other than riding club youngstock classes or championships) where Arabian show entries (in hand or ridden) show directly against non Arab horses. Many Arabian show people show only at Arabian shows where other breeds are not entered.
So it is a simple matter of fact that some of us meet and compete against many non Arab owners on a frequent basis and some of us don't. When those of us who do, report back the comments that we hear, we are labelled as being "anti in hand showing". Another simple fact, the people that we meet week in week out do not see the Arab as an all round horse. They admire it's beauty and its spirit. When they see them compete on a level playing field, they admire its ability. But the first impression is taken directly from pictures they have seen (for example in Horse and Hound) of horses being displayed in a manner which to them seems unnatural. Believe me, we never, ever agree with them - we fight our corner for the breed. A couple of years ago, I went to a large Arab C show held at a fairly prestigious equestrian venue to watch. I went into the restaurant area and sat near some of the people based at the venue. They were open mouthed in amazement - yes the accepted the beauty and presence of our wonderful breed but they openly laughed at the way they were displayed. I tried very hard to dispel that opinion and to educate them in what was taking place and the characterisitics and traits that the handlers were displaying and trying to emphasise. I was laughed at and they walked away (and that was for ridden and in-hand).
I think every discipline (including showing) has its own supporters and detractors. Every discipline has its own way of training and techniques that some other people will see as wrong - we were recently condemned very loudly by a lady when we were cross country training for wearing spurs (and yet we are obliged to wear them).
I think it's wonderful that these threads have opened up so that people can accept that we have a super, super breed of horse that can turn its hoof to anything and that the owners/breeders and riders can take pride in whatever they want to do.
My point originally was that in the more performance based disciplines, we took the set backs and drop in numbers and decline but we are bouncing back. And I believe that the showing world will as well.
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