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saddlebred
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1706 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 4:14:55 PM
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I have been resisting posting because I am trying to stay positive but I have been struggling over the past 12 months with my 5 year old 67% Arab palomino tying up. It has happened 3 times now in that period.
Initially we thought the problem was viral and she was brought back into work slowly with no further problems. However, about a week after I started stabling her at night in November she had another attack. The antecedents were: had started giving her a handful of pasture mix, I rode her straight from the stable (although was in the process of warming her up slowly), it started to rain icily on her back just after we started riding (she is not clipped), and she came into season the following day.
We eradicated all cereal from her diet, I now turn her out for an hour+ before riding her, she has added Selenium and Vit E, and I ride her in an exercise sheet at the start of my ride. This all seemed to be working and she came back into work really well.
Then last weekend I took her for a 1 1/2 hour hack. It was a lovely sunny morning so I left the sheet off. The hack was mostly walking with some short trots and then a short slow canter. In the last 1/2 mile we had a sudden storm of icy rain so we trotted the last bit of the ride and she was fine. Got back to the yard, I walked 10 steps to get a rug so that I could start walming her down and she tied up.
I am now at the end of my tether with this beautiful, talented girl. Scared to feed her. Scared to ride her away from home. I will not give up on her because she will be here for life whether she can be ridden or not but I obviously want to be able to keep her in work.
We are now going to try Dantrolene which needs to be administered an hour before I ride (at £10 a pop!).
Do any of you have any experience of tying up and do you think that the icy rain is likely to be the main problem? I am going to try and leave her out 24/7 in future.
Any words of wisdom?
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Based Bewdley Worcs |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 5:02:58 PM
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My boy used to tie up on the days he was in as the yard I was on only turned out on alternate days, so I moved.
I thought I was doing really well and I'd been VERY careful to only feed in line with the work done and he went out everyday, I always rode in the afternoon so I knew he'd had them time to walk about and chill during the day... He STILL tied up 
I then had a long chat to my vet who basically said - either ride him- or dont!
What he ment is that the excercise had to be absolutally CONSISTANT every day, he didn't tie up if he wasn't ridden, and he didn't tie up if he was ridden everyday !
So thats what we've done ever since and he's never tied up from that day to this !! ( I do also feel that he 'grew out' of it as he was tying up from 5-8 years old) and he's 17 now!
Consistancey is the key and if we have periods of pants weather where you cant ride for a couple of days then start again building up from 20 mins and don't let her get over excited or cold 
I know it sounds like a horrendously long process but it's not really and definately worth it!
Best of luck ! 
susie |
   
www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 7:36:28 PM
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I'm no expert, but would it be a good idea to have her live out, with ad lib haylage or hay, so she's getting all she needs and can walk around continuously? I've never thought it a good idea to keep animals that should be wandering around grazing all day confined in a tiny space (even though I'd love a beautiful clean horse to ride each morning!). 12 hours or more without much movement and then going for a five mile ride is demanding!
Also, I'm sure consistent riding would be good; no leaving a week or two and then doing a 4 mile ride with trots and canters.
Hope you manage to fix this. Good luck!
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Roseanne |
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Theo
Silver Member
England
368 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2009 : 10:14:55 AM
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Hi Saddlebred,
I'm so sorry to hear of your plight. Geebs (Legend Moon Empress) went through a similar problem during her 5/6yo stage... think it's a mare thing? Changes in the metabolism and hormonal balance etc. Sher had tied up twice within a four month period under similar circumstances as you've described. First time under lungeing and thensecond after riding.
I've had to change her routine quite drastically and touch wood... it has'nt happened since.
After the first attack, I had put her onto Selinium E, slowly changed her diet to high fibre nuts and Alfa-A oil (not bound by molasses but keeping up the protein that she needs).
Yet after the second attack, we thought something drastic had to be done, so I contacted Roger Hatch at Trinity's (I'm sure you recognise the name as it's been mentioned quite often on the site?) Got her on a course of L94 (detox /flush) treatment and then a single course of Mg/K powder to kick start her cellular metabolism. She has since been 'over rugged' over winter 1x medium weight full neck t/o with a light weight on top. Either turned out in the 30 acre field or if the weather's very bad, she shares a barn area with 3 others with a lump of hay thrown at them.
She gets pulled in to be worked, fed afterwards with Selenavite supplement and then thrown out again... So far so good! (Touch wood)
The only down point is that she could come in looking like a complete 'bog' monster and keeping a white mane and tail has become totally impossible! While on the upside, she's far happier and not costing me a fortune in vets bills.
IMHO, the turning point came when we gave her the 'detox', made sense because in the first instance of tying-up, the muscle cells were not able to clear the lactic acid build-up and for some reason hampered by her 'hormonal' changes.
Be positive! If this numpty here can work through it... YOU CAN!
T  xxx |
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2009 : 7:41:39 PM
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saddlebred
1)Each time she has tied up has she had anything to do with her seasons, ie in season coming or just finished.
2)Have you always stabled her.
3)What is her diet at the moment and what was her diet before
4)What is her temperament like ie can she be a nervous, stressed
I have 2 horses tie up 3 times altogether.
I too would say contact Roger Hatch his number is 01243551766
Pauline |
Pauline Higgs
Equine & Human Holistic Therapist
www.thegentlestouch.co.cc
www.endurancegbmidsouth.co.uk
Berkshire / Hampshire Border |
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saddlebred
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1706 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 07:02:47 AM
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Thankyou all for your comments. It is good to know that some of you have lived with it and that your horses have stabilised over time.
I will give Roger Hatch a ring. I am particularly interested in how I should bring her back to work. The latest attack was very mild so my vet says I can start her again this weekend and I intend using the Dantrolene sparingly. She has never been in hard work though - never galloped or jumped her and I always warm up for over 20 minutes at walk - so it is a bit scary to start her again.
Pauline, the answer to your questions are:
1)Each time she has tied up has she had anything to do with her seasons, ie in season coming or just finished? YES I think it has sometimes but how can you tell when they are coming into season. On the second occasion she was definitely heavily in season the day after the attack. No sign of being in season this time though.
2)Have you always stabled her? NO. She lived out when I bought her at 2. Started stabling her in the winter from 3 years onwards. She does go out every day for 12 hours. The first two attacks definitely correlated to bringing her in at night so I think out 24/7 is a good plan. Trouble is we get a lot of mud and she loves being in - quite happy to be box rested if she is poorly. I have got a 24 / 12 field shelter though with two doors so she will be happy out all the time with her friend.
3)What is her diet at the moment and what was her diet before? She doesnt have much because she is a very good doer. Mostly ad lib hay but I do give her 2 small feeds in the winter. Initially that was hifi lite and half a scoop of pasture mix. After the second attack which I thought was cereal related I stopped all cereal so she is now on hifi lite with garlic and selenium E plus Hilton Herbs Equimmune because we are also treated a small sarcoid. Has had a further attack even on that. I think I need a really good vitamin/mineral/electrolyte supplement with her hifi but I dont know which one would be best. Have tried oil based diet and she wont even sniff it. I have never added salt to her feed so wonder whether I should do that. All of her electrolyte tests though are normal.
4)What is her temperament like ie can she be a nervous, stressed? Her bloods do show that she is very highly strung and I would describe her as excitable when seeing something new. Once she is desentised to stuff though she is very laid back. She has not been stressed or nervous when any of the attacks have happened though. Ironically when she has had a riding lesson or been to a show she has been really excited it hasnt happened. She is definitely chilling as she gets older. I did try a herbal calmer for a while (Equilibrium Gold by Hilton Herbs) but I stopped it just before the last attack because it has do be ordered on line and it leaks in the post. I wonder if that was taking the edge of her excitement or whether it is another coincidence. The dantrolene should help with that but I really didnt want to go down the route of a drugging a young horse.
I agree with you that it does seem to be hormonal and due to lack of regular exercise but 2 out of 3 of her attacks have occured when we have got caught in icy rain. This sudden cooling of her muscles does seem to be a trigger for her. It will be an exercise sheet all the time now even though she is not clipped.
Any advice that you have - particulary on bringing her back into work after an attack, and any supplements I can use would be gratefully appreciated.
We do want to be Palomino National Champion one day!  . However, would settle for getting a control on this condition.
Best wishes
Debs |
Based Bewdley Worcs |
Edited by - saddlebred on 16 Mar 2009 07:03:44 AM |
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 08:10:12 AM
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saddlebred
Thanks for answering my questions.
My suggestions would be
1) As a good doer I would use a feed balancer (What oil based feed did you try)add some salt to her diet. When I fed Top Spec (Which I no longer do)the only thing I was told to add was salt.
2)I would continue to use the Selenium and Vit E and during the summer a hormone balancer such as the Hiton Herb one (Equilibrium Gold)I know you said it leaked did you tell HH,as I have never had that problem.Did you find her any better when on Equilibrium if so they do the dry herb one.
3)As a calmer you could try using Magic by NAF
4) would keep her out as much as possible 24/7 365/7
When mine have tyed up it has been a combination of stress and being in season.
If you want to talk to me I can PM you my phone number.
Pauline |
Pauline Higgs
Equine & Human Holistic Therapist
www.thegentlestouch.co.cc
www.endurancegbmidsouth.co.uk
Berkshire / Hampshire Border |
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Crusaders Angel
Gold Member
England
531 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 10:12:56 AM
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Check out Meta-B from West Riding Horse Supplies
http://wrhorsesupplies.com/
It was designed to promote muscle function and has had some really good reviews from people who have used it on horses that tie up. I use for Angel primarily due to the "side effect" of balancing hormonal mares. She is less squeally and flirty when she is on it and it has made a big difference to her muscles, the lady that comes and does her sports massages said how easy they were to work with and how nice and loose they felt.
I can't rate it highly enough but then that's probably down to the fact that it obviously works for my horse
Lucy |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
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sarahlock
Platinum Member
England
1535 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2009 : 3:36:42 PM
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Theo ,Fantasy tied up twice when she was a 5yr old, once after a schooling session & it was linked to the protien in her feed as i was feeding her on barley (it used to make her legs swell aswell)
Then i was giving her brewers yeast as she has sweet itch & i was told it keeps the midges away & she did it again whilst being lunged.
Touch wood shes almost 17 now & never suffered since , the full brother to your mare used to suffer with it aswell & as you know Fantasy is a half sister ,very wierd !
Debbie i hope you get to the bottom of this , it sounds a nightmare .
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Brixham (South Devon ) |
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Theo
Silver Member
England
368 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 9:38:30 PM
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Lol... Sarah, you know what the common denominator is then???
Better keep an eye on littlest brother then (Hawk Moon)?
By the way... what's this 'wheating' stuff???
T x |
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