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mouse
Silver Member
 United Kingdom
309 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 1:18:15 PM
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Just wondered what people's thoughts on Parelli are? In another thread it was discribed as 'one of the worst horsey inventions' yet my farrier and one of my friends swear by it. What are your opinions/experiences please?
Mouse
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South Norfolk/Suffolk border |
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BeckyBoodle
Gold Member
Australia
795 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 2:50:38 PM
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Personally I like some of the techniques proposed by Parelli. I mix and match them in and out with other natural horsemanship stuff from Monti Roberts, Maxwell etc. I find a bit of each works for me. I have found that the approach works well generally with my girl. She usually doesn't understand what you are asking the first couple of times. If you get mad with her you are going to have a fight on your hands. If she is having an 'arsey' day or is 'up', again if you go to fight or control it is not going to work. You have to get her back into thinking and concentrating on you rather than anything else.
I would like to take it further and move into being able to play with her more and do liberty stuff as I think this is missing in our relationship - she is only three so no riding or much else yet. We do walks and stuff.
I also like the quality of the Parelli kit that I have. I have tried other halters and so far, I end up back with Parelli. If anyone has found equivalent or better, cheaper, please let me know.
What I do not like about Parelli is the cost - my personal opinionis that it is too high and if he really wanted to help change the world, it would be more affordable, so that the 'little' people could use it.
I also do not like how 'cliquey' it can be. It seems that you either are a Parelli person or you are not, or you are a 'whatever' person and there seems to be infighting amongst the teachers.
Does this help?
B |
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Otto
Bronze Member
England
119 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 6:39:42 PM
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I completely agree BeckyBoodle - Parelli offers some useful stuff which seems to work well if integrated with other techniques. I would also agree that Parelli products are a tad expensive for what you get. I think it also depends entirely on your horse - my purebred gets bored and behaves like a naughty school boy after playing the "games" a couple of times. My PB mare just completely can't see the point and looks at me in total disgust as if I'm some sort of moron.
A lot of their approach just seems to be plain common sense- - but hey I'd be the first to admit that I'm lacking that at times 
Try it and see what you think - see if it works for you and if it doesn't then you can't say you didn't try 
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loosefur
Gold Member
584 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 7:20:48 PM
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Hummm... firstly I should say I'm not 'anti' natural horsemanship, though I hate the label. I'm a big fan of Richard Maxwell, interestingly he seems to be trying to distance himself more and more from the natural horsemanship lobby - rather he seems now to prefer just to be known as a horse expert. Common sense horsemanship is a much better label IMO.
I have no doubt Parelli works for some people - where it focuses on common sense that's fine. However what I really dislike about Parelli is the way it is marketed. It is squarely aimed at the inexperienced horse owner, the one with little practical experience (sadly those people are becoming more and more prevalent in the horse owning world). They sell a total solution - you have a problem horse then buy all their videos and training gadgets (at huge expense), follow all their instructions and bingo - you will have a horse that does everything you ask it to, is well mannered and happy. They make it sound so simple and easy. But as anyone who knows anything about horses knows it is never that straightforward or easy. Horses don't read the Parelli manuals or watch the Parelli videos. You can't learn just from reading or watching something on the TV. You learn from being with experienced people, watching them close up, learning from them, you learn from sheer number of hours spent around horses.
So what seems to happen all too often is that inexperienced people jump on the Parelli bandwagon, thinking it will solve all their problems. But being inexperienced they don't have the knowledge to train their horses properly - leading to confused horses and scared owners. Thus a vicious circle is started. The horse learns to dominate the owner who can do little more than waggle a carrot stick from a distance. Even worse Parelli is such a clichy club that these poor folk won't ask any normal experienced horsey person to help them when things go wrong because they have to stick to Parelli methods as everything else is 'cruel'. You only have to look at websites like Project horses to see the results of Parelli in the hands of people who would be much better spending a few years helping out down their local riding school and having lessons with a good local instructor.
To have a well behaved and well balanced horse you don't need to buy gadgets or videos or join clubs. You just need to gain experience by watching, learning and getting your hands on as many different horses as possible. |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 8:10:30 PM
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It's not for me - I pick what works from all the experiences I've had of all sorts of methods.
I will say this though... Anything that reminds people to listen to their horses actions/reactions/outlook etc is a good thing but Parelli does seem to bore the pants of the horse! And most avid P-folk are pootling about on a converted and quiet anyway horse - not exactly taming a mustang  and conquering the world. It all seems a bit pricey to me too. And you CANNOT and never will be able to teach talent, feel or rapport with a horse - sorry folks!
Methinks I shall launch the 'Common Sense Equestrian Masterclass' and make myself a million
Laura |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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cookie
Silver Member
United Kingdom
331 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 8:39:59 PM
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Hi Laura,
Well said on that subject.!!!You just cannot teach the rapore and feel,but you can give guidance if persons have a bit of an idea to start with.
I think your idea is brilliant for making a million!!wish I had thought of that first. jane |
j.e holloway |
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CeliaS
Gold Member
Wales
646 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 8:41:43 PM
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Parelli methods have helped me work with a very difficult horse and be successful. Above all safety when working with horses are uppermost in the Parelli's philosophy and a visiting vet, impressed with my yearling filly's behaviour said that vets find Parelli trained horses much easier to work with.
There is a lot of common sense involved and this is something I see in some horsemen and women who are so natural with their horses and equally I have seen others who haven't really got a clue.
At the end of the day it is your choice but now you have a vet's endorsement. |
Celia
    
http://www.egbdecymru.co.uk
http://www.artantix.co.uk |
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ginger horse
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1215 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 8:56:22 PM
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I like Parelli and agree with BeckyBoodle and Otto...
Parelli and Monti Roberts products are a tad expensive for what you get but i love my parelli halter
Would love to have proper lessons. if you have a lot of common sense and treat your horse like a horse and not a child you will be ok..  |
    
..........JARVIS.................HARRY.............................CERIS...........Keyser soze.....
I can resist anything except temptation !! |
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angelarab
Platinum Member
Wales
2876 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 9:06:19 PM
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| I very much enjoy reading Richard Maxwells books they have guided me quite well, i don't really get the sales pitch of Parelli but kinda understand what they are trying to open us up to |
 "Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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SarahA
Silver Member
476 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 9:30:25 PM
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Hi
I agree with beckyboodle and otto, its really not for me though and although i believe they have some good techniques and the underlying message is good, i personally believe they allow it to be used by in-experienced people who pay a fortune to become an "expert" unfortunately common sense doesnt always follow.
I was introduced to this about 10 years ago and it did help a friend of mine greatly, it gave her the excuse to get back on the ground and not ride her gelding who had scared her to death on many occasions and basically start from the beginning again. IMO all it actually did was allow her to get of her horse, without feeling guilty until she had regained her confidence, (took about 2 years and i dont know how many thousands of pounds)
I do know of another instance where a person has taken the group to court. The group had given advice to a "novice" of not riding her horse with a bit, (he was strong and prone to bolting) and asked her to only ride in the headcollar, she did as instructed, he bolted, about turned on himself and ran back towards my friend and into her horse taking them both into a ditch, Jane had to be rescued by the fire brigade as she was pinned under her horse for over an hour. Love Richard Maxwell and i have been privalaged to know him for quite some years as well as train with him at his yard for a week, loved every single minute of it and i learnt loads and loads.
Sarah
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 10:18:00 PM
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I've studied Natural Horsemanship for many years. I started with Monty Roberts,Parelli, Leslie Desmond,Ray Hunt, Craig Cammeron....(to name a few) All of these people teach Horsemanship,that's all. It's nothing new! In fact it's so old it's new!! To be fair most of the negative comments I've heard usually come from people who don't understand equine behavior, or these methods.
In the beginning I found changing some approaches to horse's challenging, as I was changing the habits of a life time. I did the things I did and used the methods I used because that's the way I was taught as a child. I never questioned these methods and never approached problems from the horse's point of view. I assumed a lot.... I learnt from people who did things without consideration of the horse. People unloaded their emotions on the horse, they shouted to the confused horse, often hitting it and got frustrated when the horse couldn't read their minds! They would tie the horses head down and used a bit that hurt which they would pull to get the horse to stop,and kick them to go. I've seen over bent horses (often) with foaming mouths which were usually open (pretty!)...feel, meaningless to the horse. I've seen horse's that 'shut down' emotionally and become robotic,dull and expressionless.OK, that is the bottom end, but even at the top of the equestrian field there is much that could be done better.
I also dislike the use misuse of 'calmer's' no matter how natural! They mask the real problems.
I always thought there must be a better way, and used to dream of the perfect partnership...
Pat Parelli was the first person to put this information from very basic to very advanced down in a step by step format.Unfortunately a lot of people get stuck in a rut and in stay too long in their comfort zone and are not progressive with their horsemanship, the horse doesn't benefit from this, it will learn evasion.
Riding without bits and with one rein not two (to stop you pulling and saving the horse's mouth) is the most basic form of horsemanship. This is to protect your horse from naughty hands! The Parelli games are just basic manoeuvres to get control of your horses feet and emotions.They can be accomplished within days or weeks! It doesn't work if, the person hasn't learnt the right way and confuses the horse or the horse is bored with the repetition! How can a horse not like or understand 'horse language'? It is the means of their survival! Once the basic concepts become solid foundations you progress onto a bridle with a snaffle bit, you are ready for communicating on a higher level. Most of us started at this point, missing out the foundation level.The higher levels of 'Parelli' Natural Horsemanship include all forms of competition including Classical Dressage. The emphasis is always on the relationship, it's the most important consideration during training, always remember the dream.
It's a shame that opinions can be formed by people watching others trying to learn horsemanship or from not knowing the concept behind the methods. Remember, most of how we train horses traditionally in this country are results of military methods. Methods formed for soldiers who didn't understand horses, most having never even touched one, but who had to tack up and go to war...by any means possible!
Horses haven't survived for millions of years without being sceptical,claustrophobic or panicaholics,I've enjoyed learning about this and by understanding it has made life a lot easier The truth is apparent when you remove the halter, does your horse choose to be with you or does it run off, can you play,ride,be with your horse with nothing but the truth?
I like Pat and Linda Parelli's educational material, I haven't got all day to spend with my horses (I wish!)It helps me focus. My time is valuable and it really has helped my horsemanship progress. There are many others I learn from,good horsemanship is good horsemanship in any form
In answer to mouse, like anything it is bad in the wrong hands. |
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Edited by - Deboniks on 15 Feb 2009 10:31:17 PM |
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taranstorm
Gold Member
Wales
952 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 11:23:27 AM
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I find pareilli equipments very expensive!
I think monty robets does amazing work with horses as i took my arab x saddlebred filly to him two weeks ago,the bond between them was amazing as took only few mins!as she only used to me work with her.she so senstive but he done "join up" and tack her up and lightly backed her in 30 mintues.i think his equipments are good price as i also ride in dually halter which is fanastic to ride in,canter,gallop etc ,prefer that instead of use snaffle bit or bridles  |
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zaminda1
Bronze Member
177 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 1:06:45 PM
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I am a huge fan of horsemanship. However, our local parelli guy ought to be hung drawn and quartered for what he did to my friends horses when he was starting them. The lovely big cob cross which she had sat on he put into barbed wire fencing and cut to bits, she has the pictures, which funnily enough parelli central were not even vaguely interested in seeing. Her lovely pony he had sat on, it had run off with him into a fence. The child it was being broken in for is now too frightened to ride it, as he put her on it and let it bolt across the field with her. Some would say it is obviously a loony. In 3 sessions I had this pony doing walk, trot, and canter and hacking out on its own. Other horses he has started are still needing a lead out hacking 2 years down the line, in spite of him going out to them 2 or 3 times a week at a cost of around £40 a time. While I am sure that the people who created this method are true horsemen, a lot of their disciples are not. They simply take peoples money, do a half arsed job, then walk away. My friend spent months trying to get him to come out to finish the job, and he wouldn't even answer the phone. She has tried to complain to parelli, as she feels they should be able to do something about him, all to no avail. My advice is take it all with a pinch of salt, and don't be afraid to say if you feel they are doing something you don't like.
Sally |
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 2:09:27 PM
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There is a huge problem with "local Parelli guys" who have done little more than a few hours of video watching attempting apply the techniques for breaking or reschooling.
Anybody can be a bad horseman, whatever technique they profess to use.
Anybody who is not a fully endorsed & insured Parelli instructor, listed as current on their website, can only call themselves a "student" & is wrong to advertise themselves as anything to do with the organisation.
A lot of beginners turn to Parelli at it has a step-by-step formula to follow at the early stages. Unsuprisingly, like beginners at anything, they make a lot of mistakes.
For some reason, this is often attributed to the programme rather than the ability of the beginner 
From my own point of view, pre-Parelli I would consider I was a fairly accomplished rider & handler.
What Parelli has taught me, is how to achieve my dream relationship with a horse.
No way through traditional lessons was I ever gonna stumble on what it takes to form that bond where your horse will run to meet you at the gate to go for a ride when he sees the bridle, or follow you halterless through, past or over anything at anytime, just to be with you.
I could never have trusted a horse to carry me bridleless in open spaces at any speed, knowing he would slow when I slowed & turn when I turned. 
Learning to teach horses to self-load & unload from a trailer whilst the handler stays outside keeps me safe from injury & allows easy transporting withpout assistance. Learning how to desensitise to & approach "scary" obstacles without creating a huge drama makes hacking safer & more enjoyable.
The techniques help some to ride/handle with more safety, some with more control, some with more expression. There are a lot of possibilities, depending on what is important to the individual. Eventers want to teach their horses to think about each obstacle, reiners want to teach invisible cues etc.
If you see something you don't like/agree with it probably IS wrong, in everybodys eyes, Parelli's included.
I don't rubbish other good riders' training methods & nobody who meets my horses rubbishes mine.  |
   
"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B. |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 2:30:39 PM
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The times we see post about Parelli on here, it always splits the camp.
We have Parelli on the Horse and Country channel and if there is nothing else to watch on TV, I do switch it on and watch. What I notice is the use of halters with the pressure points over the poll, rather like the old 'Be Kind Halters' so a horse won't resist the pulling pressure so much.
Once in the round pen, I noticed the use of an an anti buck strap, gawd this look horrendous. I think it pulled on the lower lip of the horse if he tried to buck. My eye sight is not too good late at night!! Pat P did excuse the use of this gadget as a last resort.
Anyway most of it seems common sense to me. It is a way to help newbies from getting hurt though, is it Parrelli who use a giant tickling stick to rub the back legs of a young horse? maybe I'm muddled with one of the other natural horsemanship groups.
The base of it all is good and we can take bits of it to help us. Like anything to become so hooked up in it seems a little singled sighted to me. You either are a good horseman or you aint.
There is one thing I agree with and I think it's Parrelli who says don't pat your horse. I hate people who pat my horses, my horses are stroked or rubbed gently, patting is like hitting and a horse feels this very much. If a horse can feel a fly land on his skin anywhere on his body and flinch, just think how a heavy pat, pat, pat feels.......we like gentle cooing in the ear too |
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tamila
Platinum Member
England
2532 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 5:16:55 PM
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| I started off with Parelli but found if too rigid. My boy, who is an orphan and very attached to me, was very confused particularly when being chased away. I found someone who worked with each individual horse and their ways. We had a wonderful time and now can work in liberty etc. I also found them very expensive. |
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 6:03:33 PM
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Just wanted to show you this:
This is Dior having his Beclamethasone via an inhaler, totally at liberty in the field(20 acres). He has to cope with 5 squirts of the aerosol inhaler & 5 breaths per squirt through the spacer which is pressed over one nostril whilst the other is occluded with my spare hand, causing extra breathing effort!
5 years ago this would have been impossible for me - he would have run off at my approach with a strange device, never mind the sound of the aerosol or cutting off of his breathing....
He is absolutely not a quiet, tolerant horse by nature - more of a spooky sceptic who runs 1st & thinks later (or never).
It is my newly aquired knowledge, understanding & technique that makes this possible, every day. If someone tried with clumsy technique he would be off like a shot. Changed our lives this Parelli lark....would have tied him up & pinned him down to get the job done previously.
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"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B. |
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zaminda1
Bronze Member
177 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 1:47:18 PM
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When I say local parelli guy, I do actually mean one of their recommended instructors off their own website! Not just someone who has watched a few videos. My friend still has the photos of what he did to her horse.
Sally |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 3:46:04 PM
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| Our (quite timid) youngster reacted very badly to the chasing away - it seemed to undo months of trust building. I like Monty Roberts APART from join up. The whole thing comes down to common sense - having an affinity with horses - you've either got it or you haven't. |
   
Louise, Warwickshire |
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zaminda1
Bronze Member
177 Posts |
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 7:37:03 PM
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| Well put Deboniks and Ella -your photo says more than a thousand words. |
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ginger horse
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1215 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 8:39:49 PM
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SueB it was Monty Roberts that used the buckstop....it fit in the mouth like a bit ,then a line ran down the neck and tied to the saddle a bit like a Daisey rain, it only pulled on the horses mouth if he bucked...
Ella well done with your horse.....
Have you all seen CESAR MILLAN the dog whisperer same sort of thing and it also works |
..........JARVIS.................HARRY.............................CERIS...........Keyser soze.....
I can resist anything except temptation !! |
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Theo
Silver Member
England
368 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 9:49:22 PM
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Hi SueB & Ginger Horse, the 'buck stop' or 'gum line' is actually connected via a slip knot over the head and lies under the top lip and over the upper gum of the teeth. Same principle as the Commanchie twitch (sp) that is on the market at the cost of £££'s! Then connected on from the poll with a VERY loose line to the D's of the saddle. So it own't affect the horse if he does'nt put his head fully down (effectively a FULL pelt buck). The thicker the line, the gentler it is. It's nothing new, infact an old farrier friend of mine showed me the Commanchie twitch back in the 80's, it was the most sensible way of keeping a youngster steady whilst trimming... Well before Monty wrote his book.
Back to the subject...
I have great respect for Pat and Linda's work and alot is still to be learnt form them. Be it through the Parelli, Silversands, Monty R, Max, Kelly Marks, Michael Peace camps, we all thrive to reach a common goal... 'To better our understanding and creating a better working relationship with our horses' (and yes, quite frankly... the horses would'nt have given a castlemaine xxxx if they stayed in the field for the rest of their lives, without human contact as long as they have food, water and shelter...)
Unfortunately, it is 'human nature' to create these 'split camps', reasons unbeknown... be it ideals, financial etc... Which in my humblest opinion is utterly shameful.
Thanks to people like Pat & Linda, Monty, Max, Kelly etc; they have brought the concept of non-confrontational and partnership into some sort of teachable format so the majority of us would be able to understand and learn in some sort of progressive manner. When only 20 years ago when I was training for my BHS stage 3 exams, the answer from my instructor on everything I questioned was simply... 'The BOOK says so!' 
Come on, it has come a long way!
Monty has always said...' There's no such thing as teaching... there's only learning.' Be it with horses or people, it really depends what YOU the individual make of the information.
And that's all I have to say about that.
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
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Qui Gon Jinn
Platinum Member
Scotland
1627 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 11:00:02 AM
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I am a Parelli fan and have gained more of a relationship with my horses since using their techniques. As others have said though, it is all purely common sense.
The one big downfall with Parelli is the expense. I totally agree with a previous comment from BeckyBoodle.........If Pat Parelli was that concerned about changing the world surely it would make more sense to lower the prices of equipment, training videos and courses to make it accessable to all? Sadly as is always the case with these things, the people who really need the help are the ones who can't afford it! |
The Soul would have no Rainbow....If the Eyes had shed no Tears. |
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