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Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 1:28:12 PM
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Hang on a minute:
Denmore states the "A paper is to be presented to studbook and registration on the registration of Arab Derivatives".
Would this not be in conflict with the anglo working party and what they are trying to do?
Have the premium sub committee been in touch with the anglo team?
What would the purpose be to start another stud book for sports animals - or would this be for info only? |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 2:01:54 PM
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Hi Micky........my question too!! Are we again being kept in the dark?? Information PLEASE!!
The introduction of an Arabian Sport Horse Stud Book, could be specifically for the recording/collation of Premium Scheme Sport Horse Arabians (Pure Arab/AngloArab/Part Bred Arab, Stallions, Mares and Premium bred Foals) and their relevant performance successes, making easier access and reference for those AHS Members and all None Members, accross the whole spectrum of Competition/Performance, who wish to breed other than just a Show Horse.
Feel same, would encourage Stallion/Mare Owners, to put forward their horses for NASTA Testing and grading to get their Premium Status and recognition.
Just an idea...but think it may be a consideration, if the Premium Scheme representatives are open to constructive suggestion.
Babs |
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Edited by - BabsR on 17 Feb 2009 2:04:02 PM |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 2:55:04 PM
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Just what I was wondering about Micky. Beware being taken in by all this!
Jean |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 4:00:59 PM
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Jean, Yourself and me, well know and have proven, from several generations of breeding Anglos and Part Bred Arabs,
with the looks, conformation, limbs and temperament,to win at National level in hand and under saddle, same, then also capable of performing, in a wide range of ridden disciplines.  and so they should!!
However, there is always going to exist a wide divide between
opinions relating to a "Show Horse" and a "Sport/Competition Horse" both within the AHS and other equine bodies.
In an endeavour that we "hold our own" so to speak with the
dedicated Sport Horse Enthusiasts, the idea of introducing a Register/Stud Book/Whatever ? AHS publication, specifically aimed at and embracing the value of our Premium Scheme, might prove a more "attractive" purchase and read, to the wider general horse public. This in turn, may encourage owners of top performance mares to breed to Arabian bloodlines, thus
"spreading the word"
My idea was just that, and never likely to be taken on board by the AHS, merely an offer, which may help slow down the ever decreasing registration of Anglos (particularly) and Part Bred Arabs
Babs
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 4:28:53 PM
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Yes Babs, I agree with most of the suggestions made on this thread and certainly the Premium Scheme needs a complete overhaul. What I am worried about is that anyone should think these moves would help solve the AA/CIAA problem. Some of the posts, IMO, could cloud the issues that the official working party are debating at present. These two things must be kept separate.
Jean |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 4:53:40 PM
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Ladies, this has nothing to do with your AA question. I would very much appreciate you not high jacking this thread.
If you wish to discuss this please start another thread. It would also seem that one or two A liners are not reading
the postings as some of the issues have already been addressed.
The Premium Scheme Sub committee is aware that changes could improve the scheme, but careful thought and consideration must be given, as there is little point in adopting a strategy only to find it inappropriate at a later stage. |
   
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SueN
Bronze Member
England
169 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 5:09:37 PM
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In reply to Denmoors last posting. It was she who mentioned "Arab Derivatives". So of course it is taken as including the Anglo as well as the part bred. I don't think anyone is trying to high jack anything.
It is perfectly legitimate to ask whether this has anything to do with the Anglo Working party especially as you stated that you were about to present a paper to studbook and registration on the registration of Arab Derivatives.
I can categorically state that the Premium Scheme has nothing whatsoever to do with the Anglo Working Party, as I am on that Committee, and should in the very near future be able to report our findings so far. |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 5:26:52 PM
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Here, Here, SueN Denmore making reference to "Arabian Derivatives" and a "paper" being presented to Registration....will obviously lead some AL`s to think there may be "secrets" which she is not divulging!!
Denmore, why is it you are not enlightening us of the contents of this "paper" as AHS Members, we are entitled to know the current stage of affairs.....openness and information, again, I think not!!
Babs |
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Edited by - BabsR on 24 Feb 2009 6:58:18 PM |
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Jude
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
81 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 6:46:31 PM
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"as AHS Members, we are entitled to know the current stage of affairs.....openness and information, again, I think not!!"
Of course not all A Liners are AHS members, so perhaps not appropriate after all! In fact it would be interesting to know just how many members of this forum are paid up members of the AHS.
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 6:57:12 PM
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Your are right Jude...not all A/L`s are AHS Members though hopefully a large proportion, may well be.
Guess we shall have to `wait and see` and can only hope Members are
informed in the very near future.
Babs |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 7:19:19 PM
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I think Babs pretty well clarified my position.
The title of this thread is AHS Premium Scheme and yet nearly all the suggestions coming from the AHS are about promoting premium stallions.
This has brought into question what is meant by Premium and more and more it seems to be leaning towards a performance animal. Given the nature of most performance disciplines that would lead a further definition towards Anglos and Parts simply based on body size (and of course all the other performance features)
My concern is exactly what Babs has highlighted - this overlooks mares and pure bred performance stock. The history of the breed is based on female tail line. We cannot ignore the importance of the mare in genetics.
If a full page ad is to be taken out, will it include Premium mares? I doubt it, so the world will once again get a skewed picture of performance or premium arabians, and has already been said - this is "our once a year day" as the song goes.
The Premium scheme must define what it is. I think the suggestion of changing the Premium scheme to the wider term used by Babs will help.
There are many accolades within the showing world and horses take the title of Champion or Supreme Champion, BNC or HOYS winner but there is nothing to label a performance horse with.
An Arabian Sports Horse could be of any gender, any breeding (with the minimum 12.5% Arabian blood) and it could concentrate on showing that Arabian genetics are important to the performance world. THAT should be the definition of Premium - la creme de la creme, the secret ingredient everyone wants.
Sorry to have ranted but I am passionate about this and so very, very angry to have a premium mare that has broken prejudice barriers in a world normally closed not only to Arabs but to mares and for her own breed society not to recognise her achievements, I find very saddening.
By all means, promote the stallions but for goodness sake don't forget the mares - how do you think the stallions got there in the first place?? |
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jas
Junior Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 7:36:02 PM
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| I do agree with a lot that has been said. Would someone correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the belief that, apart from racing, Anglos do not need to be 12.50% |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 8:30:58 PM
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You are correct there Jas...An Anglo pedigree can contain a wide percentage of Arab or Thoroughbred, a minimum of 12.1/2% of Arab Blood is required for Anglo racing.
The most preferred balance being in the region of 25-33% Arab Blood, 67-75% Thoroughbred, which usually results in an all purpose Riding/Competition Horse, possibly with the exception of Endurance, who may prefer a higher Arab percentage.
Babs
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 4:26:50 PM
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Templars....know just how disappointed you must feel that neither the Premium Scheme Reps. or the AHS have made any effort to `gloryfy` your Mare The lack of interest just beggers belief, but I am afraid is a very typical `none response` 
Your Pure Bred Arab Mare, presented at SportsHorse GB and being assessed against the usual bigger Thoroughbred and Warmblood types,not only gained a class 1 grading but was also entered in the Head Stud Book of Sporthorse GB. An immense achievement
Likewise an Anglo Mare having two generation of Sunray Breeding is one of only two Anglos, ever, to have been approved and graded into the Trakhener Head Stud Book
Perhaps Denmore or another of the Premium Scheme committee Members should make a note and obtain more information about these two successful mares, for inclusion in the forthcoming
Premium Scheme Promotional advertisement, which is to appear in Horse Deals next issue?  
Babs
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Edited by - BabsR on 18 Feb 2009 4:38:09 PM |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 4:59:53 PM
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What more are these horses supposed to do? It has been said many times that in fact, Arab-bred horses ARE out there performing. Now they just need the publicity that the AHS owes them and in what better way than to promote them than through the Premium Scheme. The mares are particularly important as they are the greater part of the breeding programme with the stallion doing the fine tuning. 60%/40% seems to be the informed ratio from the experts.
I await Horse Deals with interest.
Jean |
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Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 5:02:38 PM
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| Oh, come on. I would think that they expect the owners to tell them, and then maybe, space allowing, they might get a mention! |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 5:18:51 PM
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Yes of course but even the AHS must be aware of Templars achievements if they have any interest in the Arab horse at all. Maybe there should be results books to be submitted annually ( or maybe they already do this!!)
What happened to the performance awards, are they still operational? Sorry to be so out of touch with this. Must try harder.
Jean
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nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 5:23:04 PM
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I dont know about results books, but i do know that the performance awards still run as we did them last year with ranger and are on with them again for this year!
Nicky |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 5:37:41 PM
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Micky....As Templars Mare gained her AHS Premium status, on the strength of her SportHorseGB Grading, then the AHS Premium Scheme must have been aware of same, and acknowledged the fact, if only a letter of congratulations. Perhaps even invited Templars to pen a letter to them, outlining the Mares competition successes.
With regard to the Anglo, Sunray Bred Mare, Not sure if Nicky advised the AHS, but again, her Trakhener approval, grading and Head Stud Book inclusion, was another success and worthy of mention in Premium Scheme Newsletters.
We are all looking forward to the updating of the Premium Scheme and hope the re-vamp will prove to enlighten and inform Members and the wider general horse enthusiasts, of the value and contribution Arabian/Anglo/Part Bred bloodlines can make in the modern Sport Horse.
A final note, how many Members have spent endless hours, collating information photos etc etc and forwarded same to AHS, only to experience disappointment that they did not get a response?? Been there, done that!!
No doubt I shall be dubbed the `Member from Hell` but I speak my mind and `say it as it is`
Babs
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Edited by - BabsR on 18 Feb 2009 5:40:22 PM |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 6:01:57 PM
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Nicky....has your Anglo Mare also gained AHS Premium Mare status on the strength of her Trakhener grading.
Babs |
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nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 6:49:55 PM
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Hi Nicky.......just wondered as, if I read it right, Templars Mare was awarded AHS Premium Mare Status, as she had graded successfully and entered in the Head Stud Book of SportsHorseGB. Perhaps you have to apply to the Premium Scheme to find out if she is eligible ??
Perhaps Denmore may know??
Babs |
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nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 6:57:57 PM
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Babs
I will ring tomorrow and find out!
Thanks Nicky |
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Chris James
Silver Member
United Kingdom
497 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 7:28:22 PM
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I've been reading this for a while, and my comments about Premium mares are way back at the start of this thread, and I've just about given up hope about premium mares getting any recognition or choice of the sire to suit them, (see back at the start of the thread!)
BUT - surely the Templars mare who was awarded premium status - is the same TARAGUN - who was awarded the international WAHO trophy - and she & Evie put on a jumping display over a testing course at Malvern last year (and has proved herself out in the big wide world) - so if SHE can't even be recognised by the AHS as a premium mare - what's the point of any of us bothering. |
Chris James
http://home2.btconnect.com/cjames-arabians |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 7:36:57 PM
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Here Here Chris......Seems the AHS and Premium Scheme Committee are so FOCUSSED on their Stallions.....the real nitty gritty of breeding programmes, our exemplary MARES, are just not worthy of recognition and promotion in any of the Premium Scheme literature.....WHY ???
Babs |
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