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starlight
Bronze Member
 Wales
132 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 7:16:37 PM
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hi have tried to put this topic on but was not allowed to name and shame so with out naming the stud our story goes like this.we bought a 4yr old stallion palamino. after the lady had told us that he had passed the vet we believed her and so in good faith we brought him home winter 2007. gelded him late spring. and brought him back into work. hacking out lovely on roads etc. the problem arrived when we decided to sell him. we had a lovely lady who wanted him but he failed the vet. we did have a topic long pasterns. we got second vet out. she failed him. too long pasterns. and told my buyer that he. is only worth 1,000 and we should be thankfull to get that for him.we payed 2,600 for him.we have tried to get in touch with the stud i have been told they have moved.i have seen ad on other stites the same stud selling section a palamino stallion but they will not get back intouch with us what would you do. we have dropped the price from 1,600 to 1,200 ono.really do not know what to do next.
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natntaz
Platinum Member
England
2919 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 7:27:50 PM
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Sorry to hear of your problem, could you try contacting the BHS to find out if there is anything legally you could do.
Do you have it in writing that he was vetted and passed as i would imagine this would help, Unfortunatly if nothing in writing i think it would come to there word against yours.
Hope you manage to sort it out and in the process manage to find him a good home |
   
Natalie Pix. Essex. Tariq ibn Radfan and Taroub |
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Kizzys Mum
Silver Member
England
389 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 9:11:29 PM
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| You have up to 12 months after the sale that you can expect a refund due to incorrect discription. If you can prove he cannot do the jobs sold to you for or if you can prove she didn't have him vetted you will be able to contest the sale, but not if you can't prove either of the above |
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ashabarab
Gold Member
England
1378 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 9:20:02 PM
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another poor person getting ripped off by a so called breeder
these people make me so angry
l have strived for years to get a good honest reputation...do these people not care ?
l guess not
ash |
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Tricia
Bronze Member
Wales
161 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 9:59:11 PM
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Personally I don't think you have a leg to stand on with getting your money back etc. First of all, you should probably have had the horse vetted yourself or at the very least seen a copy of the vets certificate. Now it will be your word against theirs. Secondly, I think you have left it too late as the horse has been with you for a fairly substantial time.
Different vets will put different emphasis on a vetting. It will also depend what the purchaser is having the horse vetted for. It is very rare these days not to have some comments by the vet and for the horse to pass with a clean slate. Buyers just need to be sensible and decide what can be lived and worked with as no horse is going to be perfect. |
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Theo
Silver Member
England
368 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 10:30:08 PM
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Ash, without knowing which 'stud' that is involved in breeding this colt, I would not be in the position to condone or disagree with your condemnation. Though I am perplexed to find that a horse can be failed on vetting for having 'too long pasterns', unless the current vendor is looking to sell the animal as a potential 3 day eventer or a Grade A showjumper?
Starlight, what was criteria was he vetted for? The original breeders might have had him 'looked over' by the vet on a simple 2 Phase basis (ie sound in limbs, wind, eyes and heart.) Surely that would constitute as 'passed the vet'?
Your purchase is surely on the grounds of "Caveat Emptor" - buyer aware? As you had the option and every right to have the animal vetted by your own vet before you completed the transaction? Unfortunately I cannot see how your case could stand up in a claim situation in court.
Soz
Theo 
Best of luck!
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starlight
Bronze Member
Wales
132 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 10:36:54 PM
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| hi thanks for your reply we bought him with a dish but didnt exspect him to be unable to do the job that he was bought for |
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Kizzys Mum
Silver Member
England
389 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 10:42:37 PM
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| I really think you have had him too long for any compensation as you will have to prove too much about the vendor will be very difficult, what job is it that he cannot do?? |
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starlight
Bronze Member
Wales
132 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 10:51:51 PM
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hi know the buyer beware i surpose i just want some sort of reply from the people we had him off.
Reply edited by Rui: starlight, I have PMed you enough about this issue. I urge you to respect the letter and spirit of the PMs, or this topic will be removed. |
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ashabarab
Gold Member
England
1378 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 11:47:27 PM
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if you buy a horse which has recently been vetted it is customary to supply a copy of that vet report, the only time this would not automatically happen if another possibly purchaser had paid for the vet report and requested that it not be used...although if the horse passed it makes you wonder why not
or if it even existed
maybe l did jump the gun but recently l have heard of so many people being in a position of not having what they thought they had paid for
it makes me sad that far too many newcomers into the arab world are getting fed up and leaving before they have really arrived
as they are a lot of arabians for sale/loan and looking for a good home it seems that potential purchases are getting chased off for fear of ending up with an unsuitable horse
which is very sad
just my opinion of course
ash |
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loosefur
Gold Member
584 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 10:11:08 AM
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I do feel bad for starlight but it's repeated over and over. When you buy a horse GET IT VETTED YOURSELF. Don't rely on other peoples word. The only way you are covered is if you have instructed a vet to act on your behalf - only then does the vet owe you a duty of care to vet the horse and provide a professional opinion. Even then all they do is recommend whether a horse is suitable for the purpose you have specified you want the horse for - unfortunately in these days of people leaping on the litigation bandwagon vets have become extremely cautious when vetting and list every possible or even potential issue with horses they vet.
Honestly I'm not surprised the vendors aren't replying to you - what have they got to gain other than a bit of grief? They sold the horse over twelve months ago and no way will you get any money from them - sorry to be blunt but if you still want to sell him then he's only worth what someone will pay and if that's less than what you paid then unfortunately that's horses for you. We've all been there! |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
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linda
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1772 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 12:19:46 PM
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Did you say he had passed a vetting prior to you buying him?
Why didn't the person who had the vetting done buy him if he had passed??
Lx |
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rafabreeze
Gold Member
757 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 1:16:36 PM
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| Like most people have said I would have paid for and had my own vetting done. I know its expensive but it would had paid for itself in this case. Georgina |
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chris wesley
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
220 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 2:35:32 PM
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I would be absolutely furious if my or another Vet suggested my horse was only worth a certain amount . It is not for a Vet to stipulate a price or Value , they should concentrate on the job they are paid to do .
I wouldn't be too worried about a horse being a little long in the pastern , but I do say a little not too low they are almost scraping the ground . lastly don't reduce the price on the Vets say so , the market at the moment is shocking for horse prices. |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 8:39:37 PM
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This sounds like a matter of conformation. When you go to see a horse with a view to buy, its conformation is there for you to see.
I was very put out some years ago when a newly, carefully backed, beautifully behaved, completely unspoiled and lovely young filly I was selling passed a five-star vetting with flying colours. However the potential buyer wanted a horse for ridden showing (wanted a very famous professional to ride it) and the vet failed the filly because she couldn't guarantee it would get to the very top in ridden showing! There's a very strange interface in vetting where the vet also has to become an expert, panel-type judge and make decisions about a horse's potential long before it may be ready in order not to be held to account if it doesn't do 'what it was being bought for'.
In your case Starlight, I have to agree with those who say you saw what you were buying including its long pasterns. I'm sure that won't prevent it being ridden, but maybe will limit its showing potential. Do you no longer want to ride it or did you buy it to sell on anyway? |
Roseanne |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 9:51:51 PM
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I spoke to my vets on this subject, and they said it was not possible to fail a healthy sound horse no matter what its conformation. They could 'advise' a potential buyer that this horse was probably not going to be for example a top level three day event horse/show horse/endurance horse for this that or the other reason but in their opinion it was sound and could not forsee the future as to whether it would break down or not. Their only 'unless' would be if it was a potential stud colt that was going to be used for breeding, in which case it could fail on conformation, but it would have to be fairly bad!
As my vet said, she had seen some hideously conformed horses doing extremely well at top level in their field!! Also as she was a vet and not a judge she could not possibly know what the top criterias for each breed would be! |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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SarahA
Silver Member
476 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 02:29:09 AM
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| Sorry starlight, but i have to agree, the horses conformation was on show when you bought him, so what ever conformational issues he has now, he had when you bought him. I dont believe you have any claim to the stud that sold him. especially as its only come to light because your selling him, advertise him as a hack, if he is bomb proof, good farrier, friendly etc then he will be worth his weight in gold regardless of a minor defect. |
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Nicki
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 07:29:38 AM
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I'm going to try and give you a really positive spin on this.
Even without a vetting, many people may come to look at your horse and simply not like it, for whatever reason.
Or want to offer very much less than you want, either because of the economy or because that is their nature.
Your priorities here are presumably to get a really super home for the horse, that is fingers crossed, for Life. Also to recoup as much of the money you have invested as possible. I'm not sure if the buyer you mention is wanting to show the horse, but there are endless amounts of people out there wanting a horse as a real all rounder, to do a bit of everything and have great fun with. My first arab has so many faults she would Never pass a vet, but prior to retirement she gave me donkeys years of sheer joy doing everything from happy hacker and picnic pony, to endurance riding, jumping, various clinics, some in hand showing, and some western. I repeat she would NEVER have passed a vet 15 years ago, let alone now, but she has been fantastic and worth her weight in gold.
I am sure you will be able to find the right home, with the right person, for the right money, but stick to principles and be honest about the comments you have had from the vetting. Who knows you may even get more money from someone not on any of the professional circuits, but looking for their perfect life companion, and will fall in love with horse regardless of any faults.
Good Luck |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 12:57:34 PM
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Well said Nickie....at the end of the day Starlight, you purchased this horse in the broad light of day, and perhaps due to your lack of `conformation` knowledge, accepted the horse as seen, and did not pick up on it`s long pasterns. This fact, now seems to be an issue, a year later, when you want to sell and a vet has `failed` the horse
The Breeder cannot be held responsible, nor can you expect to be compensated. You were happy to buy the horse without your own vet
examination, and therefore the `now` outcome is entirely your dilemma
As Nickie has said, feel sure you will be able to find a suitable home if the horse is not wanted for Showing but is otherwise sound and genuine and therefore you may well recoup some of the costs. Good Luck and hope you find a happy home
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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starlight
Bronze Member
Wales
132 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 6:43:22 PM
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| hi i would like to thank everyone for their comments of some that annoyed me. i have to be careful of what i say as i have been warned about making the wrong statements. we bought the horse not to show but as a hack they did not mention that he dished. i have been more than lucky in the past as i have bought horses that i have never had vetted . i did not believe for one moment that i would get one penny back.just wanted to ask them who the vet was that passed him.shame was that they seemed really nice people.we did not buy him with a view to selling but my daughter decided she wants to spend this summer working on her 4yr old arab.and i could see he was not show quality but i never thought that vets fail a horse on comformation. as for the breeder not being responsible they where and knew just what they were doing when they sold him. once again thanks for all replys good and bad` |
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Joto
Gold Member
855 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 6:58:52 PM
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starlight, whilst I sympathise I dont actually agree with what you are saying. My OH has an arab which is just a hack, she had awful conformation, dishes, tied-in at the elbow, bog spavins both hocks and very cow hocked. We bought her as a young horse for endurance, and these faults were not so obvious then, she also has very good points, short cannons, good hooves etc etc, however, as she matured we became concerned that she wouldnt do what we wanted. we let her grow and didnt back her til she was 6 yrs old and before we did so we had a vet "vet" her as I wasnt even sure if we should be riding her at all. the vets opinion?????????? "hunt it" he said! "she'll be fine".
Well, I'm still concerned for her long term future soundness, and she struggles going down hill, walks really slowly, so shes become just a pet and a hack rather than a competition horse. I dont blame her breeder, nor the stud in general.She is what she is, a living animal, much loved with all her faults, I accept her for what she is with her limitations.
So,Maybe getting another vet out to give their opinion might help, so much is subjective and not an exact science.
edited to add--- just because a horse dishes doesnt necessarily make it unrideable, maybe not 3 day event or do 100 mile endurance rides, but probably ok at lower level things,I've seen, over the years, many a badly-dishing horse doing 20 mile [32km] endurance rides and passing the vet trot up at the end. |
Edited by - Joto on 29 Jan 2009 7:03:16 PM |
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alethea
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1526 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 7:15:16 PM
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Starlight
I think the point that people are trying to make is that surely you noticed he dished when you viewed and bought him. Also you must have noticed his pasterns being too long as, to be honest, if 2 different vets have failed him on a vetting because of them they must be very noticeable?
If his conformation is that bad and he is only suitable as a hack then in the economic climate and market he is prob only worth about £1,000.
If he is sound and a lovely horse to hack then you should have no problem selling him, and for that money and job, the purchaser probably wont bother with a vetting.
I know a fair bit about law and the legal system and i think you will find the stud you bought him from are not liable for anything.
Hope this helps abit
Best of luck with selling him
Alethea
Aristotle Arabians |
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linda
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1772 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 8:13:48 PM
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Starlight,
I am sorry but...I saw this horse advertised when he was entire and was interested due to his height, but the advert I saw clearly stated that he "dished" so I did not contact the owner as I wanted a future stallion for breeding!
So I am a little confused that you say you were not told this by the seller,
I knew this and I had no contact with them.
In light of this I dont think you are being very fair!
Edited to add... the advert I saw was with the picture on your profile. |
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Edited by - linda on 29 Jan 2009 8:38:42 PM |
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Debbie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1138 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 6:44:22 PM
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The words 'Wise after the event' spring to mind in this particular matter. I think probably a fair percentage of us have made mistakes when buying horses through things we have not noticed or weren't experienced enough to notice at the time. It seems to me a case to appreciate we all learn from our experiences.
As for vetting. Well, it is my experience that vets are very cautious about passing horses in vetting if they have any doubts. The last 3 liveries on my yard all failed 5 star vettings for some silly reason or another but they were still bought and being ridden out on happy hacks by their adoring owners. I have never had a horse vetted and don't suppose I ever will. Just trust my own judgement! |
Debbie
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Sundance
Racing Moderator
England
932 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 2:02:03 PM
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Hi All,
Yes buyer beware springs to mind and if you don't get the horse vetted at time of sale then I think you have to trust your judgement, and as Debbie says I also always trust my "instinct" and the only horse I ever had vetted passed but turned out to be a total psycho (TB not Arab), and I have never had one vetted since. The TB settled down and eventually we had fun competing but she probably shouldn't have passed the vetting. ( I was 16 at the time and it was a rookie mistake buying a non arab - never again!!)
I bought an Arab mare a few years back and 6 weeks before I saw her she had failed a vetting (I didn;t know this at the time). I rode her and gave a quick spin round the field and bought her for racing, she was placed racing and bred me a foal before I sold her on for endurance. The point she failed her vetting on was extremely minor flexion issue!!!
Good luck,
Paul |
Paul
www.zayinarabianstud.co.uk |
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