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Crusaders Angel
Gold Member
 England
531 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 3:31:43 PM
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My mum bought our field over 20 years ago and at the time of purchase was told there was a footpath running through it (she bought a 4 acre section of a large 20+ acre field). She applied to have it diverted, a chap came out, they both filled out a lot of forms and he went away. The field was fenced and nothing more was thought about the footpath.
A couple of months after the fencing went up a very irate man threatened to sue my mum for blocking the footpath. She explained it had been diverted and he went away. He came back a couple of times, still complaining and even cut the fencing. Soon after that a council lorry arrived and footpath signs were put up directing people through our field and a couple of styles were erected. When my mum asked what they were doing they said that the irate man had contacted the council and when they had checked on their records the original council man hadn't filled in/filed the correct paperwork so the footpath was never diverted 
The field is sort of like a figure of eight shape only square (does that make sense?) with the top paddock being smaller than the bottom and is now bordered all round with a mature hawthorn hedge and a hedge across the dividing bit with a gate set into it. The footpath enters the field about half way down the side of the top paddock.
Fast forward to this week (20 years on from the original saga) the council are now saying that the footpath was put in the wrong place and they now want to move it so that it comes into the field 2/3rds up the side of the bottom paddock, through the dividing hedge and then up through the top paddock . We have tried explaining to them of the problems we have had with walkers titbitting the horses, dogs running round off leads etc and that it would be safer for everyone if it stayed where it is but they are adamant that it is in the wrong place and needs to be moved. If we lodge an objection we could find ourselves with 2 footpaths .
Sorry to go on but I'm just so angry that after all this time they are saying it needs to be moved after 20+ years
Lucy
PS Thanks for listening/reading, I feel loads better 
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Edited by - Crusaders Angel on 26 Jan 2009 10:08:03 AM
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Kelly
Platinum Member
England
1571 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 4:11:43 PM
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I really feel for you Lucy, I would absolutely HATE someone in my fields. I get grumpy when my uncle takes his grandchildren sledging in mine, even though he LIVES on the farm!
I get REALLY cross when the schoolchildren from the site next door (spawns of the devil they are) come sneaking in. At least I can go down to the school and give them a peace of my mind.
People are actually ALLOWED in your field. Grr.
Having said that - can you imagine if there were no footpaths anywhere? Would be a shame to miss out on our countryside.
It's those inconsiderate people that spoil it all - why can't they just walk through ON the path with dogs ON a lead and not interfere with the livestock?
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Kelly
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 10:58:01 PM
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The character of footpaths has changed over the centuries since they were originally created. the original purpose was for local people to take an easier route home without fear over a large landholders estate.
Now tom dick and harry ship out to the countryside to bring their uneducated and inconsiderate attitudes with them.
I have looked at so many fields and just walked away the moment it looks to have been used as a footpath whether marked or not, as its aggro I just dont want to bring on myself.
I am still given it by the houses that back onto the fileds, use it as a dogs toilet nad golf practice, but never caught nayone in the action to vent my frustrations on!
I would put my dog in their garden and let it perform, see just how they like it....and deliver the golf balls back with the same gay abandon they found their way onto the field.... |
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NPA Arabians
Moderator
United Kingdom
2980 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 11:21:47 PM
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We have a footpath running through the farm where we keep the horses! the council and footpath officer "insist" it goes straight through the middle of a "pond" (all be it a man made one) not up the side of the lane parallel (10 yards away at the most & a shorter route & out of harms way where it is easier to walk with no walls to climb etc) Mad or what!
The Farms owner has shown photos of the fact that there was an "old" building where the pond was before - but they still insist! (oh well they need their waders!)
We are lucky in that even thou we have two footpaths that run through the horses fields - we dont have too much trouble - as we are that far off the beaten track and the paths lead up and over a very high ridge - that they only attract "serious" walkers
- but i have seen the horses "corner" a few walkers over the years - very funny when watched from a distance! one particular path is a "goat track" on a fairly steep hillside the horses stand on the track and refuse to move - walkers are faced with going through the herd (can be upto 9 or ten of them) - (not a wise move if you have anything that resembles a bag or food!) - or turning back - & they are probably 3 miles into a 4 mile round trip at this stage! Very Funny! especially if it is a couple and one "makes a run for it" and manages to get through - but the other isn't brave enough! None of the horses would do them any harm - But We arn't telling anyone that! |
     
Jayne Armstrong - NPA Arabians
:-) :-) :-) :-) |
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Annie Oakley
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
175 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2009 : 02:43:22 AM
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Hi there
Through experience I can comment on the footpath debate! At our last farm we were able to win a major coup with the council and footpath "wallers"!!
My experience was that the local council was selling off under compulsory purchase, our neighbouring farmer's land 60 acres, to be precise.(Now that's another thread!!) Although greenbelt, they wanted to turn it into an industrial estate, making it brown belt with the appropriate planning . Obviously, many mega bucks were involved and as they were all p****ng in the same pot, it was granted without a hitch, despite all legitimate objections.
Now here's the best bit!! A footpath ran across the back of our farm and the council wanted to divert it as it was worth another £100000( one hundred grand) per acre Although seldom used, we were able to support that a diversion was not acceptable as it would be detrimental to our animals and "right to peaceful existence".
My advice is to kick up the biggest stink known to man!! Be creative and use some long words ( I can advise on that!!), and give them a real run for their money! The footpath laws are some of the oldest in the country so please do not just give in!!
If I can be of any help please email or PM me
Cheers
Annie x
Annie Annsunnybankstud@aolo.com
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Crusaders Angel
Gold Member
England
531 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2009 : 10:28:45 AM
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Thanks guys
Annie, is it ok to pass your e-mail address on to my mum? She knows all the details, I just get the highlights when she's having a rant
We are trying to prove that the walkers etc are a danger to themselves and the livestock but it is hard to do it without making our horses sound like bloodthirsty rabid beasties who are looking for the next victim
We have already reported one dog walker who never puts his dog on a lead, its a young, bouncy german pointer, and it jumped up at my son, knocked him over and then bit him when it tried to grab his football  . When I shouted to the owner to call his dog as it had bitten my son he told me to F... off and stop bleating!!!
I've got free legal advice included in my horse insurance policy with the NFU so my mum is going to write down everything that has happened and what dates she can remember and I'm going to ring them and see if they can help.
Lucy |
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Sue J
Gold Member
Wales
914 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2009 : 10:41:49 AM
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Hi Lucy,
You do need to be careful here. You have a very difficult situation. Unfortunately trying to prove that walkers may be in danger could give you a bigger headache as having a Public right of way crossing your land puts the onus on you to have a duty of care in that if your horses kicked anyone using the path or your dog bit them you could be held responsible.
I do feel sorry for you especially as the CC seem to have cocked up years ago which does not suprise me, ideally you need to get the footpath diverted off your land, has this been discussed with the CC?
Sadly I feel you are in a bit of a no win situation because as they pointed out to you, you could end up with two paths crossing your land. This frequently happens when the public have used an alternative path for several years and if they can prove un-interupted use for 20yrs they would then have a claim on that path as well. The law in relation to public rights of way is antiquated and often totaly un-fair but it is the law. I would definitely advise you to get some good advice.
Good Luck Sue |
Welshpool
Welsh/Shrops border
   
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Crusaders Angel
Gold Member
England
531 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2009 : 11:06:21 AM
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Thanks Sue
We have tried to explain that whilst our horses have never hurt anyone it is because they have been handled by people who know and respect them and that if non-horsey people start giving them sweets etc that they will squabble and jostle each other and that in turn could lead to the walkers getting hurt but it just goes in one ear and out the other .
My mum has asked about diverting the footpath now but she was told it would cost around £1600 to do it, even though it was their fault in the first place
Lucy
Edited to add - I was incorrect in my first post, when my mum bought the field she was told that it USED to have a footpath in it but it had been diverted. As far as I know the footpath is not shown on the deeds or whatever they are called that my mum got when she bought the field. |
Edited by - Crusaders Angel on 21 Jan 2009 11:09:48 AM |
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Sue J
Gold Member
Wales
914 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2009 : 11:54:05 AM
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Lucy,
The reason your pleas are falling on deaf ears is because they cannot take this into account.
Who told your mum that the footpath had been diverted, has she got this in writing anywhere? If so she may have some comeback. Unfortunately 20yrs ago many Solicitors didn't bother to do a Rights of Way Search unless they were specifically asked by their client. Mostly these days they would do it as a matter of course as it is so very important as you are now finding out. If her Solicitor was specifically asked to do the search and they didn't, then a claim can be made against them.
I would suggest that maybe her best course of action would be to try to get the path diverted with as little fuss as possible so as not to get the users groups against you, i.e. to move a path involves a legal process, part of which involves consultation with user groups. In some areas, some members of the RA in particular can be difficult so you need to keep them on side if possible and make a good case as to why it should be diverted. You will need to find a good alternative that they are happy with. CC's mostly charge for Diversions because in the eyes of the law it is in the interest of the landowner rather than the public at large, you could try to prove that it is in the intersts of the users but it wouldn't be easy. It is a lot of money but at the end of the day you and your mum would have peace of mind and the added bonus that the field would be more valuable without the path crossing it.
I hope this is helpful Lucy, I do sypathise with your predicament.
Sue |
Welshpool
Welsh/Shrops border
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Crusaders Angel
Gold Member
England
531 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2009 : 12:47:30 PM
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Thanks Sue, that was really helpful  .
I'll get my mum to find all the old papers and stuff relating to buying the land from the farmer and see what they show. Hopefully if we can prove that the footpath wasn't shown on them then we will be able to build a stronger case for having it moved.
Thanks again,
Lucy |
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sarahjo
Silver Member
England
262 Posts |
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Crusaders Angel
Gold Member
England
531 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 10:15:31 AM
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On Saturday morning the contractor started work on putting stiles in the hedgerow for the new footpath. The stupid council, despite extensive consultation (read arguing and dismissing every idea put forward) were only planning on putting one stile in, on the other side of the fence line and then putting rails up from our side of the boundary to the sides of the stile - effectively creating a bottle neck on our side of the hedge a horse could become trapped .
Felt really sorry for the contractor as we refused to let him have access to our land in order put up the rails. He had already cut our wire fence before we realised what he was doing so had to use the rails to repair our fence
He was going to ring the council chap up today and get him to come down for another meeting with me and my mum to get it sorted out. We would be happy with those metal self-closing gates with a hoop on but the landowner on the other side doesn't want them, he wants traditional stiles . This a man who has done nothing with the field for the last 15yrs except mow the ragwort and doesn't have any livestock in it to get hurt.
Lucy |
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