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Slave 2 Magic
Gold Member
England
1023 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 3:30:05 PM
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I had a lesson on Magic this morning. She is working lovely in walk and slowly getting an outline in trot. She finds it hard work but is getting better. She really needs to lengthen her stride and has a habit of shuffling in trot and bouncing in canter. Its not a pain issue. She has a master saddler fitted saddle and been checked by a physio. We have tried pole work and working in circles and spirals. Any ideas welcome.
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West Yorkshire
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 3:38:46 PM
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Try schooling her out on a ride, rather than in a school.
Arabians can get into a knot sometimes with their schooling and sometimes it's easier to get what you require out on a ride, when she is enjoying herself.
If you can only use a school don't rush her into her canter, work her trot nice a slow/steady, let her just slip into canter when she is ready. Praise her when she does it well & when it's not so good don't dwell on it.
Good luck |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 6:22:43 PM
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I'm no expert but I would forget about an outline just now and try to concentrate on lengthening the trot and smoothing out canter. Once she has this right then you can start to ask for an outline, JMHO |
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Pixie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
6586 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 9:18:53 PM
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How old is she?
How much work does she do daily/weekly? |
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Slave 2 Magic
Gold Member
England
1023 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 11:00:37 PM
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| She is 8 years old and we tend to school 3 times a week and hack out twice a week. |
West Yorkshire
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 05:13:47 AM
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also how long have you been woring her. Outline is not the be all and end all straightness anf flexion in the direction of travel is far more important. Outline, true outline comes with time. Mr pokey nose my 6 year old gelding, can do fantastic extensions out hacking in balance but not an outline but in the school if I ask for any extenssion it is total non comprehension. That said he can inconsitently drop and go softly, which is about what I would expect for his stage of training.
I am really pleased with this given he is only in his first year of full work and has only ever been in a school this year. I do school on hacks, not so much now as as I used to as I have a school. |
Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
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Slave 2 Magic
Gold Member
England
1023 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 3:40:37 PM
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| I have been working her properly since March this year. Before that we have been hacking only. I have been advised to lunge her in side reins so that she can work the correct muscles without me on her. Does that sound correct? I dont want to do anything that will build the wrong muscles. |
West Yorkshire
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 9:26:41 PM
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Have you tried going back to groundwork and lunging over arcs of poles (and raised poles) and longreinging / double line over poles and grids?? Both are really helpful for setting up voice commands (making those transitions easier when on board), engaging backend, stretching over/through the back.
Also, exercises like turn on forehand and proper half halts will help too so you can vary paces with just your seat. Do school out on hacks as Nat suggests - invaluable, especially if you have a horse who tells you when he/she is bored!! |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 11:10:14 PM
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try riding her on a long loose rein and asking for an outline just for a couple of strides then going back to a long loose rein again then gradually working to canter on long loose rein and only worry about the outline when she can feel happy in each stride and build up the outline very slowly, it may be that she needs to strengthen the muscle and finds it uncomfortable to maintain which then makes it painful and they start to be afraid of the pain before it happens only ask for outline when she is really warm and confident in canter |
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Slave 2 Magic
Gold Member
England
1023 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 4:06:11 PM
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Thankyou for all the suggestions. It has given me more ideas to work with and prevent the boredom setting in. (Magic not me)
We do ground work but not very often so maybe more of that. I like the idea of cantering on a loose rein and forgetting about the outline for now. She canters better if I balance off her back but I've been told that this won't help her use her back end. It gets rather confusing sometimes. |
West Yorkshire
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 4:24:32 PM
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My purebred gelding did well under saddle in the showring but ws often tense in his canter work... taking up westernin his teens was the absolute making of him and his canter work - he would always give a proper gallop and a very active horse so collected canter was hard for him... now he lopes, working canter, gallops whatever I ask of him... the key was loose rein and and a few strides at a time - the moment he rushed, we went back to our jog / working trot (depending on what style we were riding that day)
Good luck and keep us posted
Laura |
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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zelus
Bronze Member
England
137 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 5:02:48 PM
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Hi you need to go back to basics and the scales of training theses are RHYTHM, SUPPLENESS, CONTACT, IMPULSION, STRAIGHTESS and COLLECTION. Arabs are amazing creatures miss one out or skip one and they know!!!! All the best
Kathryn |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 9:06:41 PM
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| I echo Kathryn. Your horse must be moving forward willingly and straight and rhythmically before you start to apply contact (asking for collection). If you try to collect (or as some say 'get an outline' - not a phrase I like!) first she will shuffle and you won't get a good, working, collected pace throughout the body; you'll just get a horse whose head is held in and whose legs are still straying out behind, rather than working nicely with her legs under and through her whole body. |
Roseanne |
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dartmoorskier
Junior Member
40 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 08:47:41 AM
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| As other people have said, don't confine schooling to the school. Work on the trot whilst out hacking - uphill work is good but keep her going forward - i.e. leg to hand. A good tip I was told was - if you find you are using your hands too much, then you're not using your leg enough. Encourage her to stretch. What kind of bit are you using? I ask this because I find that Arabians particularly like the Myler combination bit. I know you can't do dressage etc. in this bit, but it is a good 'training' bit - it acts on the poll, nose and mouth - not just the mouth. A lot od Arabians have small mouths and find large snaffle type bits quite a 'gob-full'. Heaven knows how those Arabians with the sea horse faces are bitted. |
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Emma B
Silver Member
United Kingdom
412 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 08:53:23 AM
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| ditto what everyone else has said - Dont worry to much about an outline as soon as the horse feels comfortable it should naturally go into an outline anway. Lots of long reining really helps also lots of transitions help with balance and sometimes they find it hard in the school because it can be smaller and they always feel like they are on a circle. I would say do a couple of strides of trot then go back to walk then keep doing this stop before they become unbalanced. Lots of transitions and not to much time trotting. Good Luck it will happen for you. |
     
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Slave 2 Magic
Gold Member
England
1023 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 1:10:46 PM
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| Its really nice to get so many peoples input on here when you get a problem arising. It makes you take a step back and go at things from a different angle. I ride Magic in a Myler low port comfort snaffle. Someone told me to try a kimblewick or pelham as arabs seem to go well in them but I haven't tried them yet. |
West Yorkshire
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Emma B
Silver Member
United Kingdom
412 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 2:11:20 PM
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| ive got mine in a kk training bit and he goes lovely in it prior to this he was in a happy mouth... |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 7:31:50 PM
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Janet, this is only my opinion, but I think a lot of people think horses 'go better' in a pelham, but my suspicion is that it's an easy way to get your horse to appear to go-in-the-dreaded-outline (as people will call it).
I do concede that not all horses/Arabs like an ordinary jointed snaffle. I have a youngster here now who hates it because of the nutcracker action to the roof of his mouth. He's happy in a Myler or a rounded snaffle where it doesn't poke his palate!
But (personal opinion and experience of course...) I think a horse should do all its basic training in a snaffle and be trained to carry itself athletically, willingly, responding to the leg as well as hand sensitively for collection, accelleration and brakes! Then when you use a double bridle or a pelham in a showing situation it's not to get a shape or an effect. I'd hope a judge would be able to feel a genuinely schooled horse, not just one that's responding to a severe bit. |
Roseanne |
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Slave 2 Magic
Gold Member
England
1023 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 11:29:42 AM
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Thanks Roseanne
I am keeping her in the Myler snaffle and getting a fresh pair of eyes on her schooling. I also have 2 weeks off work after Friday so have plenty of time to try different things. |
West Yorkshire
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Kazhak
Silver Member
Australia
352 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 1:22:19 PM
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I agree with the loose rein, as I have found over the years the horses that have been finicky horses have travelled forward happier when I have A either taken the bit out or just stopped messing with their heads,
My Mare is testement to that, I used to have all soughts of problems with her shaking her head Since I stopped riding her head shes a different horse More willing in her stride.
Please keep in mind I'm one of those that likes to ride without my reins - in the end this for me is my altimate aim,
I've also started transferring this to my boy as I ride him in a bridle not a head collar like my mare, I still try to avoid putting undue pressure on his mouth,
if your lucky enough to have a school to work in that is safe why not try riding as a passenger not a driver, tie your reins up on your horses neck where you can safely reach them and starting in walk let your horse take you around the school (round yard - for me at home) gradually you will both start going in the direction you want without using your reins, this then can be transferred to trot & canter eventually you will use your seat more than your reins to help guide & support your horse.
Good luck it seems like everyone has something really great to offer I hope it all helps |
     
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