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white bryony
Gold Member
United Kingdom
778 Posts |
 Posted - 30 May 2008 : 5:48:59 PM
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As said pony Rosie al;ready in a muzzle and tonight tried my arab in one she was a bit cocky at first than just stood there, then started eating bless her! I only left it on ten mins so she could get used to it! |
Emma
   Salsifis |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2008 : 10:09:52 PM
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| they are not natural and i think a lazy solution to a problem |
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aderyn
Gold Member
Wales
846 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2008 : 12:01:06 AM
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Kirsty contrary to popular belief goats will not eat anything - well mine wont anyway - neither will my sheep - everyone elses eat weeds and all the crap mine are very particular - from personal experience sheep will only eat docs etc when there is literally nothing else or no one else's fields they can get into! Contrary animals.
Nick |
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white bryony
Gold Member
United Kingdom
778 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2008 : 2:38:21 PM
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Its not natural for a horse to be cooped up in a stable, bit in mouth, saddle on back etc etc but hey will all do it dont we!
I am far from lazy with my horses and no if my horse is happy or not.
I know we all have our own oppinion on things but I just get a little worked up as I do my very best for my horses and if they truly hated a muzzle they wouldnt be in it.
Anyway not having a go, just everyone has different oppions |
Emma
Salsifis |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
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tillysmum
New Member
England
19 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2008 : 10:00:55 PM
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| There are many things we do with our horses that are 'not natural', both of my ponies [fell & welsh A] wear grazing muzzles and are quite happy. They know when the muzzles come out that it is going out time, my fell had laminitis last year without going near grass and had to spend most of the summer either in her stable or in the sand paddock. This year with the help of her muzzle she can spend time in the field with her friends, It is not lazyness it is doing whats best for your horse. |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2008 : 10:22:36 PM
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There has got to be something seriously wrong with the general land management in this country if grazing muzzles are so widespread. How on earth did horses manage without them until they were invented a few years ago?
The land my horses are on is, although unfertilised for at least 6 years, extremely good, and it doesn't belong to me, which is why I have to work around having too much grass. If it were mine I would flood it with sheep to get it bare so that Zaharoff could be out longer. Even then he puts on weight so easily that he would have to be off the grass for a good part of the day.
The regime he is on at the moment works for him but it is labour intensive for me---I am back and fore like a yo yo putting him out and bringing him in, there is more mucking out to do, and it is also expensive, because he has to have hay when he is in. So I can see Gossy's point---if I turned him out with a grazing muzzle on it would make life very much easier for me. BUT there is no way on this earth I would put a grazing muzzle on any horse of mine.
Apart from the mental torture of being surrounded by grass you can't really get at and the discomfort of the muzzle there is the mechanics of it--- horses are very careful eaters---they use their lips and their whiskers to select what they are going to eat, which is denied them with a muzzle. They are also a potential danger---I wouldn't turn a horse out with a headcollar on in case of accident let alone a muzzle, and if you have a quick release on the muzzle there would be a danger of it coming off when you weren't there and the horse suddenly bingeing on grass.
I think instead of trying to make the horse suit the grazing with contraptions like this we should be thinking of making the grazing suitable for the horse. |
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Kirsty5278
Platinum Member
England
2682 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 01:02:13 AM
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I can see both sides of the stroy, and fully understand why people opt for a muzzle... whats worse, sitting in the stable and looking at the lovely feild of grass, or out grazing the grass with a muzzle??
I was very wary of using one, a took me a long time to persuade myself to get one... when i saw the poines reaction it was heart breaking, I gave him a bit of time, encouraged him to graze but he was so obviously unhappy - i will not sacrifice the happiness of a my horses.... The grass is now very short and their paddock made smaller, his work load increased - hopefully this will ease his wieght off...
I will not use the muzzle on him again....
BUT
had his reaction been more accepting and he was happy just to carry on grazing then it would have been easier for me to keep the muzzle on him....
tried it, not for me though but ONLY becuase my pony made sure i knew he wasn't happy. |
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Loopylou
Junior Member
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 6:41:02 PM
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'There has got to be something seriously wrong with the general land management in this country'
The yard where i keep my mare is owned and managed by a guy who has a degree in land management!
Without her muzzle she would only have 1 hour turnout probably more torturous to her than a muzzle. Her muzzle allows her to graze slowly and also to socialise with other horses and gives her a change of environment. She is able to run with the herd when they have a mad half hour and whilst not ideal is the best scenario for her - not me! Her regime is also labour intensive and costs more in bedding but rather that than another £2000 on vets bills and the agony that she went through last year! She is happy and well adjusted which is backed up by her general condition and temprament.
'I wouldn't turn a horse out with a headcollar on in case of accident let alone a muzzle'
In a properly fenced paddock there should be minimal risk of accident - should we also outlaw 5 bar gates just in case?
Everyone has their own opinions about the management of their horses - they should not be so quick to judge and criticise others for having opinions which differ!!
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 8:30:21 PM
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| I dont think its a case of being quick to judge, i totally agree with Zan, i have 4 horses, 2 extremely good doers and 2 that look like hatracks all year round, it takes alot of time energy and money but i work it to the needs of the horse not myself, horses in the wild never have muzzles and never have a weight problem do they???? no muzzles plenty of grazing, horses always look extremely unhappy in muzzles, all the ones ive seen anyway, also what did people do before muzzles came along?? |
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Loopylou
Junior Member
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 9:23:46 PM
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Horses in the wild cover miles and miles of open grazing and lets not forget our horses are not in the wild.
In an ideal world I would not muzzle my horse, i would get 70% + in every dressage test i rode and i would qualify for HOYS every year - but as we all know the world is far from ideal and we have to make the best of what we have. As mentioned previously she is not muzzled for my benefit and the idea that horses are muzzled because their owners are lazy is quite frankly bonkers! I have yet to see a happy laminitic horse who has 3 months of box rest to look foward to.
it is very much horses for courses and everyone is entitled to their opinion, i have no problem with people who don't like muzzles, but i did take exception to the suggestion that i (and others) were torturing our horses.
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arabic
Platinum Member
England
4562 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 9:34:08 PM
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| My pet hate is to see horses with muzzles on grass that has been grazed down to nothing - surely muzzles are meant to be worn on longer grass so it can at least come through the hole?? |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 10:07:56 PM
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| torturing is your word not mine, i happen to know quite a few very lazy people who think that muzzling a horse is alot easier than paddock and horse management, yes we all have our opinions and im affraid that is mine, hate them have seen too many awful things happen, and im still waiting for the answer of what people did prior to muzzles!!! |
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Loopylou
Junior Member
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 10:39:39 PM
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Sorry Gossy - it was Zan's post, not yours which i found a little offensive. I have now got it all off my chest and am off to put work into room 101 - been off for a week and got to go back tomorrow!
Just figured out how to put sig pics on so you can all see my pride and joy
Gill |
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x_Kath_x
Bronze Member
England
164 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 10:55:48 PM
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I keep both my minis in grazing muzzles 24/7 for the best part of a year. They don't look in the slightest bit miserable or tortured - if I wanted to see them look like that then I'd keep them in a stable away from their friends. Mine can even eat hay through them when they want to. They have them off briefly morning and night so they can get their little dose of carrots, Formula 4 Feet and Happy Hoof. I've always been told by farriers strip grazing is worst because they will be eating all the fresh new shoots as they come through. I couldn't stand to see them fenced off from the others in a little paddock and tbh they'd probably break through anyway! At least in a field they get plenty of exercise, always running round and even using their muzzles as battering rams when they're wrestling each other.
Grass never used to be as lush as it is now, the climate is getting warmer, less people are using the rougher varieties of grasses - if you're talking pasture management maybe changing your pasture rather than fencing it off is the answer if muzzles seem like the lazy option.
My ponies health and wellbeing is foremost. They wear muzzles and yes I feel guilty coz they look awful but I'd rather that than any of the alternatives and I think they'd agree - unless I had lots of patchy rough grassland for them to roam around in with their friends and no muzzles. They didn't like them at first but I've had no trouble since (except the Dinky rugs ones they chewed through!), and they stand quite patiently to have them back on after feeding. Admittedly my Arab might not appreciate one but I have trouble keeping weight on him rather than off.
Some photos - do they really look that miserable?!
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lisa b
Gold Member
795 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 06:57:05 AM
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| they look happy to me..xx and how cute .x |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
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rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 1:16:29 PM
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I take great offence & VERY UPSET that its been suggested that those of us that use grazing muzzles are LAZY!!
I work VERY hard to keep my horses, & work hard to ensure they are happy, healthy animals.
My situation is that I have 2 horses, a yearling & his 18 year old mum. They like to run together & yearling has more needs than his mum.
We have owned our land for 13 years, and NEVER add fertiliser. If, I give them a smaller area to run in then the yearling doesn't have enough grass & when we get these downpours the land soon can get poached.
Yes, in an ideal world laminitis wouldn't exist but it does.
I love my horses and would love to not put the muzzle on but I care about them so much that I don't want them stabled 24/7 for months on end recovering from laminitis.
Please think again before you call others lazy!!!
Lisa
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Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
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x_Kath_x
Bronze Member
England
164 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 2:14:27 PM
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well said Lisa. I was also very offended both at being called lazy and particularly that I was torturing my ponies. I also put a rug on my Arab if it looks like rain because he is prone to rainscald- that's not natural either and going back several years we didn't have fancy rugs but he'd be very upset if I stuck him in a stable to stop him getting rained on. I don't see why putting a grazing muzzle on to stop them over-eating whilst allowing them to live out is any different to rugging a horse in bad weather so he can stay out. It doesn't stop them from picking and choosing what they want to eat either. None of mine like being in and they are much healthier in the open air. I don't have my own land but it is not fertilised in any case.
If people don't want to use muzzles on their own horses that's fine but being intentionally VERY offensive to those who do - and I don't see how claims of torture and lazyness can be construed any other way - is just not necessary. |
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dinkidoo
Gold Member
United Kingdom
652 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 2:29:42 PM
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I agree that id rather see a pony out having fresh air and freedom to roam with a muzzle on rather than being restricted to the stable for most of the day. My cousin has to use one with her section A as she only needs to have access to grass for an hour and she's off her feet. She only had access to less than an acre at her last farm and was managed fanatically by my aunt who tried everything to avoid her coming down with an attack but still would be ill.
A muzzle is the only solution and she would take great offense at being called lazy.
Also bit off topic but my mare gets laminitis and it wasn't caused originally by grass. It was traumatic due to a bad abcess and a reaction to the drugs. We nearly lost her (14 years ago) This year we feel will be her last as she is struggling with the grass but keep her in and her arthiritis cripples her. I have considered a muzzle for her but feel at the moment we will keep an eye on her and try and prevent an attack. Its such a hard decision trying to work out what is best and what makes them happiest. i know she prefers to be out though she is so unhappy when she is in.
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 4:01:26 PM
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I won't be offended by any comments made on this thread as it really doesn't matter what anyone says . We all do what we feel is right for our own horses and we will continue to care for them in the way that we see fit.
Nothing changes....
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white bryony
Gold Member
United Kingdom
778 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 4:08:17 PM
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Would just like to say my little mare has been grazing in her muzzle all day and has ears forward nibbling away, I see to my horses at least twice a day, there paddocks are managed well, not fertilised.
As said earlier am offended at the thought people would think im tortring my horses and lazy- I have 3 jobs to do 6/7 days a week to be able to keep them and still manage to fit in riding etc etc and there wellbeing is very important to me,
If mine didnt like wearing it I very much doubt they would let me catch them when they saw me coming in the morning!
I know they would rather be out playing with friends then being in isolation with four walls around them.
I am grateful we all have different oppinions, we are all different at the end of the day, but please, none of us are out to torture our horses!!! |
Emma
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rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 5:02:23 PM
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Can I thank Kath for your support.
I was VERY hurt by some of the thoughtless comments.
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Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 8:01:42 PM
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| i have to say that if you feel what you are doing is right for your horses, then what has been said, should neither offend or upset you! as has been said before peoples opinions differ thats a fact of life, if someone didnt like the way i did things thats fine its there right to have their opinion. |
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rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2008 : 1:32:14 PM
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| IMO its still out of order to label someone as lazy if you don't know the facts. |
Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
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