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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 10:59:30 AM
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The person quoted in the first post has ...masses of debts and is about to lose her home.
Having one horse would make no odds in this particular situation, it can be kept at a DIY and once she is back in a rented home she will no doubt survive. I agree, her horse is a shoulder to cry on, so is dog. I am sure this one horse didn't cause her massive debt problem?
What does worry me and even more of late, is the people who buy Arabs with little money, some I have known re-mortage their home to do so, at a later stage lost everything.
Those that buy Arabs to try and keep up with the latest fad and in doing so lose everything including each other.
Those that won't admit they have no money to feed starving Arabs found in shelters without any food or water because the owners are completely unrealistic in life.
No you don't need lots of money to keep one arab but you do need the sense to know when to call it a day or ask for help.
At the moment in our area, we have two separate Rescue centres asking for help to pay for their mortages, one is only £4,500 per month another has put posters up in our feed shop asking for help to house six stallions, not Arabs.
Why do they do this? why do they set out with all good intentions but fail?
It worries me that youngsters reading these threads imagine that they can have a stud, have a family and have it all and it is easy. No it isn't........ You do need a lot of money to do that. I am not elitist, just sensible. I have seen too much suffering to arabs in this country to make me realise someone has to speak out.
When I started out I had only two Arabs, they were kept in a DIY yard which I ended up running. I certainly wasn't rich but enjoyed them and never would part with them till they turned up their toes.
But..I knew I could keep them in the manner to which they had become accustomed
The problem we have now days is people are not happy with just one or two horses they want it all.
I would love to impress on everyone to please see beyond the first horse. Write eveything down what it costs to keep just one and multiply this by the amount of horses you want or have.
Then put your own living costs in.
You are more than entitailed to interpret my post as you wish, but I assure you I only have the welfare of the arab horse in my heart.
If you wish to see photos or statements of lives torn apart due to some people over populating themselves with horses they can't afford, just ask.
The only living thing to suffer at the end of any problem is the horse. Who's shoulder can they cry on? |
Edited by - SueB on 06 Apr 2008 11:14:44 AM |
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Sahir
Gold Member
England
847 Posts |
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bridie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2395 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 11:40:17 AM
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Yes I think my horses are a luxury, and one I feel very fortunate to be able to afford, and yes they are my possessions...which I care for well, IMO.
About 12 years ago my x husband and I parted company, I was not really in a position to keep a horse but with a LOT of help from a very good friend (RosyRider)who never bugged me for rent etc, she knew I would pay when I could, and I did.....we managed to weather that particular financial storm. Those of us who have people around us that understand and will help unselfishly are the lucky ones. I would try to help anyone in this situation if needs be.
I feel for anyone in this situation. Tell your friend it will get better in time, but its hard going.
Ive just been made redundant and have had to be realistic.....I cannot afford 3 horses, so I have very sadly sold the Trakehner mare I bought in December....I had no choice. I could struggle to feed 3 or manage well to keep 2 and sadly (i know it sounds horrible) but I love the other 2 more. Does that make me selfish, cruel or realistic?
I agree with SueB post.....I would never put my home at risk. |
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Danielle
Silver Member
Wales
355 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 11:49:10 AM
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| My Horses are a luxury and I am lucky to be able to afford them and have them, if my home were at risk and I risked losing the roof above my head then the Horses would have to go i'm afraid. I have 3 horses and at the very least would look to sell one of them and give the other back to the rescue centre he came from as for the other one I may keep him if I had enough to cover only his expenses otherwise he would go too but maybe on a loan. I don't think anything is worth risking your home for but that's just my opinion. |
   
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nicolanapper
Platinum Member
England
4247 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 12:16:31 PM
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Jen this is a hard one. My horses are my chill out, without them I do not know what I would do. I had 4 until recently when I sold my homebred gelding (too a super home), due to personal reasons. I am now down to 3, all of whom I love dearly, my welsh mare, who is 16, I have owned her since she was a yearly and two two year old fillies. I sincerely hope that these three will stay with me for the duration of their lives, but none of us ever know what is round the corner!!
Nicky |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 12:48:08 PM
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In this case there is no question of the lady selling her horse and then being able to keep her home; that was stated in the original post. The question was whether when her house was sold she should keep her horse. If she is in a position to do so and can afford to then if she wants to I think she should.
No one would advocate keeping the horse if she was going to get in dept again or couldn't afford to keep it properly, Sue, but some of the underfed and neglected horses I have seen have been owned by people who could afford a lavish lifestyle but just weren't interested in the horse during the winter when it was no longer any "fun". Conversely, you see people on this foeum who have two or three jobs just to keep their horse. I know who I would rather had one of my horses. A posh stable and lots of money doesn't guarantee a good home. A loving owner usually does.
Barbara |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 1:36:35 PM
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Looking at the bigger picture for a moment, people die of starvation every day, of course keeping a riding horse for pleasure is a luxury, so are cars, fridges, central heating, telephones etc etc.
Having said that I like others consider my horses as family, selling them for me is unthinkable. I would go without every other 'luxury' of modern life to keep them.
(Provided of course that I could look after them properly.)
I find the concept of keeping horses in order to be 'part of the Arab scene' absolutely bizzare. I suppose if thats why you keep horses then, for you, they are a luxury possession.
However for me, and obviously many others, they are close friends, an unending source of joy and part of what makes life worth living, of infinitely more worth and value than ' a lovely home'.
Our priorities are our personal choices, my priority is my family, which INCLUDES my horses.
Cheers
Lisa
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lisa |
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Maramoo
Silver Member
England
447 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 1:59:33 PM
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I agree with you entirely Lisa - I consider my horse and other animals for that matter to be an intrinsic part of my family and I would go without every other luxury before I gave them up. |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 2:09:17 PM
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I think that my friend does go without pretty much everything else for her animals (she has two dogs and a cat as well). Certainly she doesn't go shopping for clothes etc and no holidays or time away. The mobile home that she has moved into is actually on the yard (it's a bit like the Beverly Hillbillies up there with all sorts of waifs and strays ~ animal and human in residence!). The lady who owns the farm has had her fair share of strife in the past and so I think she will cut my friend a bit of slack if she has problems with the rent or anything. I just know that to outsiders (i.e. non-horse people) she would appear to have all her priorities the wrong way around and they would find it bizarre that she has let her house go but not her horse? I think it's going to be a massive relief for her as she can pay off a lot of the debt with the proceeds of the sale and hopefully not get into that situation again, although heaven knows it is a thin line sometimes.
Jen |
     
Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 2:20:50 PM
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Jen,
Your friend should not feel judged by anyone, providing she can look after her horse properly it is her choice, you can tell her that there are plenty of us who respect her for putting her friend ahead of material possessions and hope things will get easier for her.
Lisa |
lisa |
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Ryans_gem
Silver Member
England
262 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 3:17:32 PM
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As the situation has gone this far it wouldn't make any difference if her horse was sold at this point but I think her life would be far sadder if she lost her horse too , if she could get back on an even keel in rented accommodation and keep her horse then why not. The horse sounds like the tip of the iceburg in the debt situation.
I don't think arabs cost any more or any less than other horses to keep all horses are expensive to maintain regardless of what breed they are. I wouldn't risk my home or get into serious trouble with money over my ponies as I know what I can afford and do without a lot to pay for them with my own wages.
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My horse is my very best friend. Nothing in the world can separate us. When he dies I know he'll be waiting for me at the gate... just like always.
A horse doesn't care how much you know, untill he knows how much you care.
~ Pat Parelli ~ |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
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ashabarab
Gold Member
England
1378 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 4:00:51 PM
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l have gone through some pretty rough times over the years, and the one thing that has kept me going was the horses..
l have no children so my horses are my family, and yes l often go with out to make sure that they have everything they need..in fact of l did not have the horses l would probally be comfortable finacially
emotionally l would be a wreck
do l care about a house? not much its only bricks and morter, but l love my horses...
if l had children my answer would be different, as l would have responabilties to them..but l don't so for me horses aren't just a way of life..they are my life..
my life my choice!
ash |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 6:51:07 PM
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Here, here, Lisa, and everyone else who agrees with you. I have grown up children and my horses are part of my family. I haven't had a holiday for 20 years as I don't leave them and I don't spend anything much on myself as my horses and family come first. I know the time will come when I will have to part with them as I will be too old to care for them properly but until then I will do without and keep working to look after them.
Most of them were born and bred here and have known no other home but I know that as they are trusting and loving horses they would quickly settle in a new home if they were loved and looked after.
I would rather give my horses to a good home than sell them for thousands to a bad one. I have put several of my mares on loan as I want to retain control of them but I can only keep a certain amount and work full time and I have been very lucky with the homes they have been to.
Barbara |
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Songbird
Bronze Member
England
152 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 8:04:42 PM
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What a problem ! I feel like devils advocate but in my position as a livery yard owner, over the years I have seen too many people who simply cannot afford a horse . From my livery yard owners point of view it means that these people sem to think we are a charity and that we should help them make up the deficit .Not fair on anyone and least of all the horse.
On the other hand I swear that whatever happened in my life I could not part with my beloved Czak. I would work at any menial job to make sure that I could keep him in the manner that he is accustomed to. I really would not like to live in a mobile home but somehow I would do whatever it took.
What I really mean is if a human being wants to make supreme sacrifices for their horse then that's fine with me and I would respect anyone for doing this. After all for most of us our horses are family members and that says it all. Just be realistic and don't rely on other people to make the sacrifices too.
Kit |
Kit Rolfe |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 8:19:51 PM
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At least this woman is not shirking her responsibilities, either for her horse or her debts. I know a female who has been made bankrupt twice - mainly because she can't see that it's not possible not to have the things she thinks she should have, so has run up vast debts on credit cards. She and her husband are still at it (spending), and by being made bankrupt they have a short time in which they have to manage on cash, but then they're free to carry on, with their debts written off. The rest of us are paying more for our finances to pay for these written off debts.
Your friend, Jen, is at least facing life courageously. I'm sure things will turn out OK for her. She may live in her mobile home for a bit, but it sounds like she's a hard worker and I bet something will come along - someone will offer her a house share or she'll earn cash pet sitting etc.
I know that mental health is worth everything; if she's lost most of everything else, and her horse is her 'saviour' she should hang on to him. I bet most of us here are really rooting for her to come out of this crisis well!
Too many people want too much for nothing, won't recognise their debts and take the courageous way out, get obsessed about their horses and create lasting havoc for many people around them.
Here's hoping your friend's integrity is repaid. I wish her well!! |
Roseanne |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 8:44:51 PM
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Ah everyone is so kind as ever. My friend spent her first night at her new home last night and I must say rather her than me. Very cold and cramped but she seems to be coping ok, once she gets some proper heating sorted out and if the damn weather would improve it would help a lot. Her little dogs are unsettled and bark incessantly when she is out which may be a problem or not if they calm down in time. I think she enjoyed being able to go out onto the yard straight after getting up and she can see some of the stud's youngsters in a big barn outside her kitchen window which is lovely. I hope it is a new beginning for her and yes she is courageous to face up to her problems and try and sort them out responsibly. She is a big softie with her horse and will doubtless now spend hours dithering over whether to bring him in from the rain, take his rug off, put his rug back on again etc etc! When you have to drive backwards and forwards you make your decision and are stuck with it unless you want to drive back again ! Who knows what the future holds for any of us, I do know that when I drove back to my lovely warm house I did give a quick nod of thanks to him upstairs or whoever it is who dishes out the luck.
jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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natntaz
Platinum Member
England
2919 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 8:45:45 PM
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Feel so sorry for this lady, what hard choices she must
be having to make I wish her all the luck for her
future whatever the outcome.
I would do whatever i had to to keep my horses they to me
are not a luxury they are my life. I dont have much money
to spend on myself. My husband and my daughters have not
gone without either but i would go without anything if it
meant not having my horses. I also look after them, never
ask for any help from anyone and never intend to.
I also think to presume that people with money are the people
who look after there horses best are rediculous. I have known
many people with money and horses on there door step but dont
look after them no where near like most of the people who dont
have loads of money but just love there horses.
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Natalie Pix. Essex. Tariq ibn Radfan and Taroub |
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Cryapakah
Silver Member
278 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 9:12:52 PM
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We are having a bad patch now. We have harldy any money and I can't get a job because the managers say I'm too ill and wouldn't cope with it. But the doctor says I'm ready to work, so I can't even get benefits. My mate told me I should sell my boys but if I did that, I would once again, be stuck in the house 24/7 ill, bored and have nothing to help me get better. My mom is set on keeping the boys because when I'm with them I'm not ill but when I'm away I can be in agony.
My boys do of course have everything new from tack/rugs etc I don't have any new clothes etc unless I am absolutely desprate. But then my moms mate usually bags up her kids clothes that are in good condition and gives them to me.
Horses arn't a luxery. Their family! Hope this lady the best of luck and she really should keep her horse hes the best thing for her when shes having a hard time, because she can escape the real world and go for a ride and imagine she is at a beach or somewhere she has always wanted to ride! |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 9:24:04 PM
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Oh Sarah I'm really sorry to hear that you are struggling too . As you say the horses are such a help when we are feeling pants but it doesn't help when they in themselves start to become a burden financially. Hope things start to come right for you soon especially with your health.
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Zenitha
Gold Member
England
1078 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 9:25:44 PM
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Well said Nat 
A lot of the cruelty towards horses we see is through ignorance, or simply not caring. The people who love their horses and will give up a few of their own home comforts to ensure their horses are 100% happy, are not the type of people who will allow them to be neglected. Money is absolutely no guarantee that an animal will be treated better.
Most people have Arabs because they love the breed with a passion. The only people who have Arabs as a fashion item are clearly those who have more money than sense. |
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Zenitha
Gold Member
England
1078 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 10:03:19 PM
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Sue B - In reply to your Private Message  (me, I prefer to keep things in the open ), I have absolutely no problem with you personally, and I'm very sorry if that is how I have made you feel.
Unfortunately, I just happen to disagree with some of the things you say, and never having been one to bow and scrape, I am not afraid to voice a different opinion. At no point in my comments on this topic did I try to 'fob other people off with look how cheap it is to keep Arabs' (ehh ?),nor am I 'only interested in my own stud', and cannot understand how it can have been interpreted that way.
This post was about a lady who owns only one horse, who happens to be her life - knowing the peace and healing I get from my own horses, I can understand and appreciate totally why she does not want to part with her best friend
My frustration with your comments is purely because you seem to imply that folk with little in the way of cash are going to neglect their horses, full stop. This may happen in some cases, but not, I feel in this case, and indeed many others. I'm sure Jen would have something to say about it if she was concerned in that respect.
I do hope that you can see my viewpoint, rather than feel it as an attack on you - I have no reason to dislike you and very bitter experience tought me never to judge another - so I am very much looking forward to meeting you at the SWG Spring show, I'm sure the sparks will fly
PS I think you will find that my postings and dealings with others in 'the Arab world' (some of us just like Arabs - we don't all want to be part of the Elite Circle )are generally of a kind nature...... |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 10:18:05 PM
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I'm not party to any private emails but can only reiterate that there is absolutely no suggestion of neglect in this case. In fact if anyone is lacking anything material in the way of food, warmth or shelter in this instance it is my friend , certainly not her warm, happy, well fed horse (he's not an Arab by the way to clear up any confusion). He is in fact a rather chubby cob and she chooses to pay for a stable for him over the winter months when I'm sure she could save herself a few quid by having him out at grass livery.
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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aderyn
Gold Member
Wales
846 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 11:53:57 PM
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All I can say is there for the grace of God go we! I have a lot of horses I don't work but I dont have them paid for by the state either! All my horses get the best I can give them - I go without for them like others do. I have read this thread with interest I feel so sorry for your friend but without being judgemental in any way - the lady was responsible for her own affairs and unfortunately she has put herself in the position she is in - I take my hat off to her for now taking the bull by the horns and rectifying it. Please don't shoot me am not trying to kick her whilst she is down just stating what nobody else has. To sell or loan her horse like everyone has said would not solve her financial problems neither would it fetch enough money to enable her to regain her house - therefore she is right to keep him he is the only solid thing she has left. With regards to losing evrything especially the house I would re-iterate whatothers have said its only bricks and mortar - this was brought home to me last year by a near neighbour - a widow - who had lived in her home for 15 years she loved the place but her daughters wanted her to sell up and move closer to them which she did - just before she moved I said to her you'll find it hard to go you have so many memories here and you love the place so much - her reply - "memories you take with you they are in your head and your heart - everything else will still be standing after you have gone!" Food for thought.
Nick |
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