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Wyllow
Platinum Member
 United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 5:45:56 PM
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I adore my handsome, kind long haired German Shepherd Alfie ~ really love him to pieces !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What I don't love is watching him having to eat a special diet , forego treats, eat VILE smelling powdered enzymes in ALL his food ( well almost all of it ) and knowing he'll never be 100% healthy because of unscrupulous breeding causing so many weakness in the breed.
Anyone who loves an animals finds it hard to watch them live anything less than a healthy, fit life, I'm sure.
My point???
Well, it seems to me that the appeal of the GSD is that he looks very Wolfie, in fact the original GSD sire is said to have had some Carpathian Wolf in him.
Lately, MANY wolf lookalike breeds seem to have sprung up ~ Northern and British Inuits, Utonagons, Tamaskans, Hebridean Wolfdogs, Saarloos Wolfhonds and the Czech Wolfdog ~ the last two breeds actually containing Wolf and the former breeds being a mixture of Huskie, Malamute and GSD and bred to LOOK like a Wolf.
Possibly many owners are no longer willing to watch their dogs from long interbred lines suffer and are looking for a healthy hybrid that resembles the original concept of the GSD ~ or similar, without the low slung hips that have seemed so desirable to some, but with the longer legs and stronger constitutions of the sled dog type breeds.
My question is then:
Does anyone HAVE a Wolf~like dog of any of the types I mentioned ?
I sometimes wonder how long I'll have Alfie and hate to think about it really, but would like to investigate these new breeds a little more.
Any info very welcome!!
Thanks!!
~Cate
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Cate Hamilton
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 6:18:26 PM
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designer dogs
not a fan of people breeding crossbreeds and charging huge prices for them
two major problems i have seen with them--- 1)they are produced by crossing gsds with various types of sled dog so there is a clash of type and temperament which does not make for a good cross---gsds are loyal with a strong guarding instinct; sled dogs are very independant with a strong prey (chase)instinct. it doesn't take a mastermind to imagine what you get if you get the worst of both. most of them can't be trusted off the lead.
2)they inherit all the bad genetic faults of both sides so you are still quite likely to get hip dysplacia, bad guts etc---possibly even more so because a lot of people breeding these dogs aren't even getting them hip scored.
obviously i am coming from a rescue background and am very aware of the number of dogs in need of good homes. i feel, given that, it is immoral to attempt to create yet more breeds of dog.
i have a rescued gsd here who came from a rough background. she is highl;y intelligent, has a straight back, good hips and no health problems whatsoever, but she would not get anywhere near a modern showring ---although she is just like the "alsatians"of my childhood. they do exist out there--just avoid the show bred ones. |
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cazza
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1674 Posts |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 7:01:34 PM
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While I appreciate a frank approach, I don't for whatever reason appreciate being replied to in quite such a way.
Sorry, but I finally have to say it, a little tact and diplomacy when replying to a perfectly acceptable question wouldn't go amiss and being judgemental about the motives people have for "creating" what you might term "designer dogs" is a little offensive to those who DO have their dogs hip scored, eye checked and so on, and breed a new type to get RID of the inherent faults in "pure bred" dogs.
And anyway, virtually ALL DOGS are a product of crosses at SOME point in their breed history.
I suppose modern Labradoodles fall into the designer breed category, do they?
Well, to be fair, they were originally bred specifically to be assistance dogs.No mean motives there.
As for price, any dog or anyTHING for that matter is only worth what those people paying are willing to pay.
Yes, I'd love to have a fit "old" type GSD....Alfie WAS SUPPOSED to be one.
Sadly, although he LOOKS like an old type, he has the relatively more recent EPI disorder, thought to be an inherited tendancy ( so my Vets tell me )that NOW dogs the breed after hip dysplasia and various spinal and nurological disorders were thought to be better addressed.
Many "mongrels" I've known have lived FAR longer healthier lives than many pedigree dogs I've known.
If you want to talk "immoral" in terms of "mongels" and "designer breeds", tell me....how healthy is an English Bull Dog, a Bassett Hound, a Shar Pei ?
Tell me how many Bull dogs can deliver live pups without C sections, how many Shar Peis suffer ingrowing eyelids along with Bloodhounds and just how many GSDs have EPI, Hip displasia etc etc, how many Dobes have wobbler syndrome or why so many Greyhounds have bone cancer?
Nothing very moral in the pedigree breeders' minds who have created characatured monsters of the fit. healthy dogs these breeds once were.
I'd prefer to see no more Bull Dogs bred only to ever be delivered by C section than to ban the notion of breeding FITTER hybrids.
Sorry if I have upset anyone, but for once, when I am upset, I'm gonna say so. |
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Cate Hamilton
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sarahlock
Platinum Member
England
1535 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 9:15:16 PM
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Hi Wyllow ,
Im sorry to hear about your Alfie, only last month there were some GSD X Husky pups advertised in our local paper , someone in Torquay breeds them .
We have always had Longhaired GSD`s ,my mum & stepdad had three 20 yrs ago , mother & 2 sons aswell as my border collie !
Mum has had 2 since then & i am on my 2nd pure black GSD
( both longhaired )
The dogs we have owned all had nice straight backs & good hips ,although you do have to be carefull what you give them as they are inclined to get the S##ts easily !
My mum bought a lovely GSD puppy a few years ago from a farrier who just bred from his pet`s but the mother didn`t have papers , Ben was the most handsome dog & you couldn`t fault him until you looked in his mouth ( he was overshot) & when he was 2 yrs old he developed epilepsy, it got so severe that he had to be PTS when he was 5 yrs old .
My blue Merle Border Collie was also overshot & became Epileptic at 2 yrs old , thats a bit of a coincidence isn`t it ?
This is my GSD Jake who is huge & always gets called a Wolf
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Brixham (South Devon ) |
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Suelin
Platinum Member
England
2514 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 9:20:13 PM
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| I know someone who breeds Inuits and czech wolfdogs. Very responsible and caring people. They are bred as companion dogs I'm told. Beautiful animals but I wouldn't trust them. Interestingly this person wouldn't let anyone but her in if they were out in the yard and then told me what marvellous natures they had. I wasn't and am still not convinced. |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 9:20:19 PM
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| Beautiful dog Sarah! I've got a soft spot for GSDs - OH family had a couple - were trained guard dogs - but lovely & friendly to the family! |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 9:56:51 PM
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Oh WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a stunning dog, Sarah, Jake is SENSATIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!
I absolutely love the GSD and my childhood memories are full of happy times with the first of the two we had in particular. Rebel was intelligent, handsome and VERY fit and healthy. He DID however,in MUCH later life, develop a nurological disorder ~ it wasn't hip displasia but he did lack co ordination of the rear end and we finally had him PTS aged 12, which was a good age, I think. He was healthy until his final weeks.
The second dog, Hector, was never what you might term healthy.
He had a terribly nervous temperament and developed a brain tumour. Very sad. he might not have been 18 months when we had to have him PTS as he went quite crazy owing to his condition.
I'd actually LOVE to have another GSD and I applaud anyone who works to "straighten out" the problems so often associated with this beautiful and somewhat abused breed ~ abused in terms of unscrupulous over breeding.......but I do remain worried about what else might happen ~ seen or heard of too many lovely dogs suffering and never want my demand for a pup to have led to an animal being born with inherited conditions.....and that is the reason why I ask about the new breeds/types of a similar wolfie look .
Actually, I'd like to mention that I didn't ask about casual CROSS BREEDS ~ I asked about dogs of a developed but unregistered breed who are several generations away now from a crossing of GSD/Husky/Malamute and are showing a predicatable type and temperament......just in case anyone else thinks I'm actually after a first time X....because that is FAR more likely to be unpredicatble in terms of what you get in physical appearance and character.
It's hard to believe, isn't it, speaking of "registered" or bona fide "breeds" that the age old "type" of Border Collie, a worker on UK farms for CENTURIES has only been a "legititmate" breed with KC recognition for the last twenty something years.......I don't think anyone with a good working dog or companion ever gave a toss about their dog's "legitimacy" !!!!
Actually, to put a new twist on an old Equestrian saying:
" A GOOD DOG IS NEVER A BAD BREED" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS
Yes, ok, by the way, I may have over reacted a tad to the usual forthright "style" of our friend, Zan.....but I was a bit miffed at the time as all I did was ask!!
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Cate Hamilton
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bluehaven
Silver Member
Ireland
377 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 10:40:32 PM
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| I met a wolf the other day-it's NOT a species whose genes any sane person wants in a pet!He was a perfect gent and l'm one of the few strangers he approver of but..I do have a number of black longhaired GSDs in my sanctuary-all 'old fashioned' type,straight backs etc that I'm looking for UK homes for. |
If it aint breathing it aint important |
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sarahlock
Platinum Member
England
1535 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 11:12:56 PM
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Thankyou Judith & Wyllow
Jake is a gorgeous dog & loves kids,when my coloured foal was born he sat outside the stable & cried & when he was let in he gave her a sloppy kiss ! ha ha
Max was my 1st pure black GSD i got him from a breeder in Wisbech , he was one of those "once in a lifetime dogs" i could ride up a main rode & he would walk on the inside of the pony without a lead .
He was well known in the Palomino world as he went to the shows all round the country with us.
He would sit in the living area with the door open & never moved unless he was told !
His grandfather was called Lexicade Black Magic of Kingstown & although i got Jake from North Devon Max`s grandfather is also Jakes GGGGGrandfather !
Of all the photo`s i`ve taken this is my favorite
This is Max my 1st black GSD with my daughter Abi when she was 17 months old (shes 18 next week)
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Brixham (South Devon ) |
Edited by - sarahlock on 25 Jan 2008 1:21:49 PM |
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sarahlock
Platinum Member
England
1535 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 11:19:58 PM
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Oh no Blueheaven dont tell me that  ,
i have 2 Border Collies aswell as Jake ,theres no more room !
I cant believe you end up with them when they are so expensive to buy , do you have a website for you sanctuary ? |
Brixham (South Devon ) |
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Lanabanana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2691 Posts |
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bluehaven
Silver Member
Ireland
377 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 12:12:39 AM
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| I have 12 old style gsds awaiting rescue homes including longcoat solid blacks and b+t longcoat pups.HELP!! |
If it aint breathing it aint important |
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bluehaven
Silver Member
Ireland
377 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 12:38:20 AM
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| Are you kidding-a website?l can't afford a computer! I'm doing this off a mobile phone!I'm feeding,neutering,vacc'ing,etc+vets bills for the derperately abused dogs that l get(mainly from 'our dear friends who live in caravans'.On my own with no financial support from anyone.Situation has gone critical in past few weeks-51 here now+16 more coming in HELP NEEDED.NOT KIDDING!If being put to sleep was the option for these dogs l take in l'd say go to Jesus but it's not.It's a life of abuse,slow starvation +endless indiscriminate breeding if l turn them away.HELP |
If it aint breathing it aint important |
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bluehaven
Silver Member
Ireland
377 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 12:39:05 AM
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| Are you kidding-a website?l can't afford a computer! I'm doing this off a mobile phone!I'm feeding,neutering,vacc'ing,etc+vets bills for the derperately abused dogs that l get(mainly from 'our dear friends who live in caravans'.On my own with no financial support from anyone.Situation has gone critical in past few weeks-51 here now+16 more coming in HELP NEEDED.NOT KIDDING!If being put to sleep was the option for these dogs l take in l'd say go to Jesus but it's not.It's a life of abuse,slow starvation +endless indiscriminate breeding if l turn them away.HELP |
If it aint breathing it aint important |
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sarahlock
Platinum Member
England
1535 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 12:46:57 AM
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I know what its like in Ireland , i could have resued loads of farm collies , & i did bring one back to England with me .
I hope there are lots of of A Liners out there that can home those poor dogs & you are doing a fantastic job ,God i cant believe you have so many , you are a saint  |
Brixham (South Devon ) |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 12:50:00 AM
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I grew up with GSD dogs or Alasations as we knew them, never had a problem, Mair and myself had one for 12 years,Great mongrel called lark came then wonderful pet, and with her a fantastic border collie
very clever dog,called Buster, The three had been fantastic pets and friends, But nothing could prepare us for Shadow a Siberian Husky bitch she is more work as you cannot let her loose in a strange place
she will hunt and run,Funny eater like fresh raw chicken breasts,
But if you want a loving, super clever,child loving,friend she is incredible,Never smells doggy, cleans herself like a cat,
and then her master stroke we are convinced she can read your mind
alaways one step ahead, An example you thing walk she goes and waits by the door, you thing feed she is already by her bowl,
Phew if you could design a Woman like that fame and fortune awaits
Nick BBA |
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bluehaven
Silver Member
Ireland
377 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 01:18:29 AM
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| I'm an awful long way from a halo.I'm fond of saying 'the biggest bitch here doesn't have 4 legs on'.But it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to turn my back on these souls.I've gone without a meal many a time to make sure they're fed.There's no choice here,it's a moral imperative.I DON'T UNDERSTAND how anyone can drive past seeing a dog flung out of the window of a car on a motorway but they do.I've a JR x terrier here now that l picked up that way.She wasn't the first(she's in ex condition now and ready for homing)I don't WANT to do this,I just don't see a choice I can live with. |
If it aint breathing it aint important |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 07:41:02 AM
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Bluehaven,
Thats a wonderful thing you are doing and I wish you all the best sounds like a critical situation.
Im in Jersey and its a long way away ~ but some very determined people have adopted whippets and greyhounds from Ireland over here. One group, I believe is very involved with irish dogs of different sorts. I could find out more to see if they might be able to advertise for you.
If you would ever like a webpage put up, let me know ~ I build sites and Id put one up for you ~ basic maybe, but front page, adoption requirements and images of dogs needing homes, contact details and so on.
If you could give me the details, I'd happily do it for you.
Have a look at my Art site if you want an idea of what I can do and let me know.
I'm looking to the future with having another dog as my GSD Alf takes a lot of my time as does my older Dobe and the Collie.....but if anything happend to Alf or Diana,( both of whose health is up and down ) I would want to have another dog.
Sarah, what can I say, Jake is MAGNIFICENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Cate Hamilton
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 08:20:05 AM
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WOW Lanabanana - is that 'Ohno' the pup with no name?! You are right she has really changed colour as I don't remember her having any black/grey.
She must be desended from Wolves!!
Is she still a handful?
I agree Jake is one good looking dog, very proudm noble and smiley. |
    
Hampshire |
Edited by - Vera on 25 Jan 2008 08:21:44 AM |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 09:12:38 AM
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sorry wyllow---i meant no offence to you or indeed to any dogs out there. i love all dogs--full stop.my typing skills aren't good at the moment for one thing, but over the last few years i have had a few of these type of dogs through my hands as boarders---all of them have been lovely, all of them have suffered severe psychological conflicts and all of their owners have been seriously out of their depths.i am sure there are some well balanced happy examples out there who have been lucky enough to land up in the right hands---and i'm sure yours would also be the right hands---but what i was attacking, and stand by, is the current trend to creaTE "new"dogs, import evxotic breeds etc. while hundreds of lovely dogs die in rescue centres.
i agree entirely with you wyllow about what you say about various pedigree dogs---bulldogs etc. in fact in my opinion, the creation of designer dogs is an extension of the breeder mentality that has led to these problems.
a few years ago wolf hybrids were very popular----i felt nothing but pity for these beautiful creatures(how can an animal like that ever have the freedom and exercise it needs to be happy). i stand by what i said about some crosses not being "good" crosses, and mixing gsd and any sled dog is not, in my opinion, a good idea.
sarah---jake is absolutely gorgeous |
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Edited by - Zan on 25 Jan 2008 09:19:04 AM |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 12:41:09 PM
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Thats ok Zan, no harm done either way !
I completely agree with your feelings about the exploitation of ANY dogs in any way ~ including the irresponsible breeding of dogs for money ~ whether this be breeds that make unsuitable crosses or those crossed with actualy wolves, the latter sometimes very pitifully falling into unsuitable hands for the worst reasons ~ the macho mind set and that sort of motivation prompting people to buy them as accesories to their "image" ~ yes I do realise what you are saying and I do agree, as would anyone, I'm sure!
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Cate Hamilton
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x_Kath_x
Bronze Member
England
164 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 1:39:53 PM
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slightly on a tangent... no ofence intended to anyone but I don't agree with using wolves to create domestic dogs (I know that's how they originated but there's no need now), no more than to domesticate a wolf as a pet. There a number of people working tirelessly to protect wolves in their natural habitats around the world where they are being killed and hunted and their habitats destroyed. I wish people would appreciate them living wild. I was told at a wolf protection seminar that there are more wolves living in captivity in Britain than there are living wild in Europe.
As you say there are lots of wolf-like domestic dogs without having to cross in captive wolf DNA. My dad has a Norewgian Elkhound that people have thought was a wolf though in fact she doesn't look much like one at all! |
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Sheena
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1810 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 2:09:49 PM
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I have grown up with GSD's and although I admire many other breeds GSD's are my first love.
I find it sad that so many defects are creeping forward in the breed. I myself have an eleven year old Black bitch called Dancer - she is my best friend and if they produced something that could make her live forever i'd buy it tomorrow, even if it cost everything I own and more she's very special and very intuitive.
And my Dad's 7 year old Dog, Floyd
Bluehaven I have left a note for you on another thred, just asking if you can e-mail me your contact details please.
Thanks,
Alicia
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Alicia
     
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Edited by - Sheena on 25 Jan 2008 2:10:52 PM |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 07:40:29 AM
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Oh WOW ALicia, Dancer and Floyd are sensationally beautiful!!!
I shall have to find one of Alfie as he's pretty darned gorgeous himself!! |
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Cate Hamilton
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