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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 5:59:41 PM
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I've been trying to keep Shah barefoot and his back feet are perfectly fine but we've had some ups and downs with the fronts and I'm now seriously considering shoeing him, on the fronts only. He's not too uncomfortable but I now have to boot up every time I ride, even if only for 10 minutes down the road and even tho we don't mind the booting up it takes time and you can't just tack up and go out quickly. Plus it's looking like it will take a very long time to get the fronts to the same standard as the backs are, if we ever make it.
One of his problems seems to be conformational. He's a bit too upright which causes uneven wear. Having no experience of corrective or remedial shoeing I don't know what it can achieve. Would corrective shoes be able to aid this type of problem?
I'm going to speak to the farrier on Monday but just wanted to ask if anyone here has experience of corrective or remedial shoeing so that I ask the right questions without looking like a complete nerd
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West Sussex |
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 6:06:06 PM
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I like Natural Balance Shoes, I have hem all round on Dennis and TC has them on the front (unshod behind). If you google them you'll find loads of info on them or use the search bar on here as they've been discussed here before.
I am not a fan of Cytek in any shape or form! |
    
Hampshire |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 6:48:56 PM
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A couple of mine have four point shoeing & thats BRILL!
Vera - why do you have Dennis & TC shod if they are not being ridden - just being nosey now?! |
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 7:51:25 PM
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I have tried several times to get Dennis barefoot but his feet are tiny with thin walls - he is in a size 00 Light Steel NB - and if he's not shod he goes lame. He may not be ridden but that doesn't stop me walking him for miles!!!!!
TC has had two episodes of acute laminitis (BEFORE I looked after him) and X-rays confirmed my suspision that he has a degree of pedal bone rotation so shoes in front.
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Hampshire |
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 10:17:17 PM
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| Natural Balance are great. Zaharoff has them on front and bare hind feet. |
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katherineepea
Gold Member
England
883 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 10:54:48 PM
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i took my boys shoes off in nov and gave him a month off. he came back into work fine road work 3 days a week, cantered fine on rocky paths, then after he had an abcess (common in the transitional period to barefoot)he came back into work slightly footy so i got him some marquis boots for the front which have made such a difference. he has a toe in conformation on the near fore btw.
the farrier said a few days ago that he had a lot more foot on the front which was previously wearing away quite fast. the boots are invaluable if you do a lot of road work which i do, we've done x country in them fine too.
but if you do get marquis make sure you pump them up properly as i thought they had to be on loosely and lost one once!
once you've taken shoes off it can take 2 years before the feet are ok but persevere once you've come this far! |
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SEZ
Gold Member
England
1101 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 08:00:06 AM
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I have two barefoot horses - Obi had shoes for 13 years and even though he never went sore - it has taken 4 years to get his feet back to a better shape because I didn't use a barefoot trimmer until last year. It is only then (when I stopped useing farriers and used a barefoot trimmer) that I saw improvement. They may never be as perfect as The Tanks (who has never been shod) but they are getting there. I would advise using a barefoot trimmer. Keeping a performance horse barefoot takes dedication (it is easier to have shoes) - you have to ensure workload (the more you work, the stronger feet get), diet is VERY important, and you need the correct trim. I would suggest he may be low in magnesium but I am not an expert - that's the trimmer's area!
Vera - think small feet and shoes = chinese foot binding |
Edited by - SEZ on 07 Jun 2007 08:00:54 AM |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 09:26:52 AM
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Thanks guys for all your comments. I'll look into the natural balance shoes and see what the farrier says about them.
I've had a barefoot trimmer for nearly a year now (he's very good and come recommended by others here) and we had a long conversation about this yesterday. Before then Shah was barefoot for another year, with the farrier doing the trimming, so he's been barefoot nearly 2 years now in total. I know sticking to the barefoot route takes dedication and I've no problem with that but I think the time has come to make a decision on what we're going to do moving forwards, and I want him to be comfortable.
I've seen a huge difference to his back feet but the fronts are just not getting better and we (the trimmer and I) were both surprised that they could go backwards so quickly. It all happened when he went lame and was off work for a little while, unfortunately we had bad weather at the same time so the ground was wet and the combination of no work and wet weather made his feet deteriorate very quickly.
We also talked about cause and effect. After a visit by the chiropractor last week who found lots of things wrong with Shah's back, I'm also wondering if these problems plus his conformation fault contribute to the foot problem. If so, the barefoot trimming is not going to solve anything further, but putting some corrective shoes on would maybe help him be more balanced so that the back can get right, which then in turn will help the foot eventually...
He's fed very well on Simple System, and gets extra pure oxide magnesium (mainly for the nerves but also for feet and digestion), so nutritionally there's nothing wrong. His coat and eyes are gleaming |
West Sussex |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 09:44:22 AM
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| Back in history when shoes were invented it was to try and preserve horses' feet so that they could do the unnatural work being demanded of them better without getting lame. If all horses could cope without shoes no one would have ever bothered to dream the idea up.Good luck to anyone who has a horse with feet that can cope with being unshod, but some horses can't, and some horses benefit greatly from remedial shoeing. When I got Zaharoff he was shod all round, had pigeon toes and a lot of seperation in his front feet. Now he doesn't wear hind shoes, his hind feet are great, he is no longer pigeon toed and his front feet are also great, but I would never consider taking his fronts off---his front feet just aren't good enough, and need the help the shoes give him. |
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SEZ
Gold Member
England
1101 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 11:34:01 AM
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I have been led to beleive that shoes were invented to keep lame horses being able to go into war. I do not intend to get into a debate about barefoot versus shoes, I was trying to offer advice to Shah.
Shah - it seems you have done everything you can. I hadn't realised. Good luck to you. |
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bam-bam
Bronze Member
England
83 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 9:47:26 PM
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Hi Shah,
Very interesting what you say about cause and effect between sore backs and front feet. Been talking to my farrier and a barefoot trimmer about the same subject. Front feet soreness can apparently be a cause of related soreness - in front of the shoulder blade, behind the front leg (where the girth goes) along the trapezious and behind the saddle. This can happen particularly if riding down steep hills where there is more pressure on the forehand. Maybe this could be true so could the opposite - that sore back could be causing altered movement thus leading to issues with keeping feet 'true'. Mmmmm.
What is frustrating is the differing views of farrier, vet, barefoot trimmer and physio. I don't think things are black and white in these things and no one can tell us 'the right answer'. Like you, I'm looking for a solution but whilst shoes solve a lot of issues they have their downside too.
Bam-Bam |
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ACGODFREY
Silver Member
United Kingdom
440 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 4:19:02 PM
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Zan, do you mind if I ask you whereabouts you are in Scotland and what farrier you use? I am nr Biggar and have been advised by my vets (Clyde) that my boy gets remedial shoeing on his fronts due to an upright 'club' off fore which is causing a few minor problems especially now he is backed. Problem is that the two recommended farriers are not taking on any more clients, even as referrals!
Thanks
Anne
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cassy
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 5:03:39 PM
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| Anyone in my area dn19 7ex i highly recommend simon britcliffe, never late, will trim/shoe even naughty ones if your not there if give permission, he gets mine in, trims and turns out, mum if in doesnt do anything he likes to do it all, very good rates and a fab job, he does remedial as i had some done last yr |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
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moonfruit
Silver Member
England
475 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 8:02:23 PM
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Hi Tab,
I won't do the barefoot/shoes debate either, but my only point to make is if his fronts aren't improving there is likely to be an underlying cause. Shoes will help mask this cause, & to all intents & purposes will 'fix' the issue. Barefoot isn't for everyone, there is an element of constantly monitoring the feet (& worrying about every little thing!) & while I enjoy this aspect I know it doesn't suit all owners.
Would you drop me an email? I have some more up to date information for you that may help.
If you have decided to look into shoeing then I have no issue with that at all, I'm not a barefoot evangelist, but in light of everything that's happened with Rima I may be able to shed some light 
It's moonfruitpenguin AT yahoo.co.uk in case you need my addy again.
Gill |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
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beau
Gold Member
United Kingdom
806 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2007 : 9:09:04 PM
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| Hiya just wanted to add, i had to have my boy remedially shod when i bort him previous owner went for cheapest farrier not the best syndrome me thinks,. we did try natural balance + they were good however one thing to bear in mind is that 'proper' nat bal shoes are not clipped onto hoof as normal shoe they are nailed in if your horse has poor hoof the shoe may twist or slip. is worth checking with farrier that your horse has nice solid hard feet. |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2007 : 5:44:31 PM
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Well, farrier came today, looked at the feet and told us they're perfectly fine! The constant crack he has is caused by an indent in the coronet band (on both feet) and it's just been the weather and less riding on tarmac that's put them back. He didn't particularly want to shoe unless we wanted him to so I'm now back to careful conditioning again.
Bam-bam - I agree with you about cause-effect. I suspect that the back problems have been increasing the pressure on the front feet, causing them to wear more unevenly. Now the back is 'back' to normal we will hopefully see an improvement in the wear of the foot, maybe that's already begun after the riding I've done for the last week, which is why the farrier was happy with the condition of the foot today.
On that note, I read an execellent article earlier today, if you've got a crooked horse you might learn something from this: http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/woody.html
I tried to put it into practice today and guess what, it works! |
West Sussex |
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bam-bam
Bronze Member
England
83 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2007 : 9:39:11 PM
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Thanks for the article shah - looks really interesting.
And good luck.
Bam-bam |
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 10:23:26 AM
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hi very interesting debate , this...something people get very hot under the collar about too i have noticed!
i was using NB but they did not give enough support ( at the first point of diagnosis for navicular) i know have cytek & voila' a sound horse
i know these shoes are not for everyone , but from what i have heard it mainly becuase they have not been correctly put on- you need further trainiing to shoe with these and like everry shoe out there are not for every horse - true i dont particulary like the 'look' as it were ! but dont put shoes for to make my horse look nice - just want to be sound and pain free!
our other arabs are barefoot |
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ACGODFREY
Silver Member
United Kingdom
440 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 5:08:54 PM
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Zan
Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, you are correct about who the two recommended farriers are, but if they are unable to take on new clients, there is nothing I can do. In the meantime, I am back to a farrier I used to use a few years ago at a different yard and we have formulated an action plan resulting in my youngster having Natural Balance shoes put on his fronts yesterday. He was a bit shocked by the experience, having never been shod but was good. It will be interesting to see how things progress with these shoes and the 6 weekly re-trims.
Anne
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 7:35:37 PM
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| Anne---I know that Sandy sometimes takes on referrals for specific problems if the horse can come to him either at Clyde Vets or at his forge. He just doesn't have time to add people to his list, but that way he can still help with problems. He has been doing that for someone I know---she takes her 2 year old there every *howevermany* weeks, but he doesn't have the time to take on all her horses and travel to her. |
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alethea
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1526 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 09:50:12 AM
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Im another fan of natural balance shoes 
They worked miracles on a racing mare we have who had horrific front feet!!
Alethea
Aristotle Arabians |
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