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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 4:44:54 PM
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Quick blow of the old trumpet too  What about the foster mares - many of them are bullied into this life not necessarily the Mary Poppins of the equine world. One such mare was discovered by my good friend Judith Coveney - aahh Patsy !! Some how along the way she ended up with me - Georgina, one of the girls who helps me broked her in and brought her on quite nicely. Patsy, I think, was the result of a foster cob mare being covered by a blood horse ( all foster mare are returned in foal as part of the deal ) and as a result thought too much and was stubborn !! She hunted quite enthusiastically but when the meet didn't move off quickly enough she'd throw herself on the floor in a tantrum !! It was at this point I decided she need a professional to school and educate her. Enter good friend Stuart Henman !! Stuart spent two months schooling Patsy and as a result she found a new home with her new teenage rider doing abit of everything. A success story  One which reminded me why I have Arabs - they are so much easier because they are intelligent !!!! |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 7:45:48 PM
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| Errrr nothing that gross !!! Some of these cob mares just see foals and say ' come to mummy' they are amazing. The ones that don't and need coaxing are sedated alittle and hobbled. After a few days they'll accept baby as there own. |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 8:56:14 PM
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Have just left another request for admin to see if we can put a petition on here and whether they would help with it. As soon as I get an answer I will let you all know.
I did talk to H & H today but they didn't seem over interested....They want all the facts/proof/names/addresses of the suposed offenders and then they will consider if they will run a story or not. I personally don't think they will as I am sure the mag is owned by a racehorse breeder?
Delyth is right, the woman that my OH spoke to said nthat cob mares make the best foster mothers because they do seem to accept another foal so easily. Perhaps this is because they are never allowed to keep their own!
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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Edited by - angel2002 on 08 Mar 2007 08:40:45 AM |
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ginger horse
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1215 Posts |
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madmare
Platinum Member
England
2129 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 12:06:30 AM
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| angel...do you want me to get in touch with a few people I know? they may be able to help bring this to light! |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 09:45:16 AM
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I have only just read this and had no idea it went on. I knew there were foster mres for racehorses but assumed they were mares who had lost their foals and am amazed that they would deliberately separate mares and foals to send the mares to stud.
The daily mail are good at investigating areas of concern and they also run petitions in the paper about various topics. Might be worth contacting them if the other papers aren't interested.
Very sad business. We humans have a lot to answer for, not a nice species in many instances. I love my foals so much that I find it amazing that anyone could do anything so cruel, my mares and foals are so attached; fortunately I have never had a rejecter but have seen some and the foals look so sad and miserable on their own and don't behave like normal foals. I know they adjust but that is no excuse for deliberately causing such mental anguish to the mare and foal.
Barbara |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 10:03:56 AM
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I'm trying to find you another link regarding HRT - god knows we are all probably heading that way  but one type uses pregnant mares urine ( I think  ) and obviously its not obtained by the likes of you and I running round with buckets !! These resulting foals are unwanted and I remember seeing pictures of pens of weanlings going off to slaughter.
There was another debate on an American sight regarding the practice of aborting equine foeteus' for the table as they are/were considered a delicacy in some countries - go figure - freaks !! |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 1:14:44 PM
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Ginger Horse - That is exactly what I am talking about. Proves that this is not just a National problem in the UK but a worldwide one!
Madmare - What we need is a person in a position of power that has the clout/knowledge to be able to take a petition to where it needs to go. If you know of such a person that would like to come on board to help us stop this cruelty that would be great!
Barbara - I too though the same as you until earlier this week when I found out exactly what goes on behind closed doors so to speak.
I suppose you could say that money talks :(((
Delyth - That is just gross!! I couldn't eat horse meat let alone a foetus |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Edited by - angel2002 on 08 Mar 2007 1:17:59 PM |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 2:02:20 PM
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| They even make ice-cream out of horsemeat - good god you'd think they'd have discovered Ben & Jerrys by now !! I think the element ot compassion is lost |
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Tonim
Silver Member
United Kingdom
430 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 2:18:16 PM
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Ooops sorry Admin, I obviously gave out to much info in the heat of the moment! Apologies!
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 6:36:36 PM
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I dont know why ,but I have only just read this thread and now I wished I hadn't as always nothing is going to change,no one will be able to help these poor unfortunate animals.
Human beings are without doubt the cruelest creatures on the planet, with the exception of a few, who are powerless to do anything to help |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 7:25:06 PM
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Dear all....there is a chink of light at the end of the tunnel, i've had positive looking news as far as the papers are concerned. Can anyone who is willing to give pertinent information on this subject email me ASAP, I will then forward to my contacts.
I must stress that no-one here will be named in anything that the press may release, they simply need cold hard facts before they can construct any editorial.
Fingers firmly crossed......
enquiries@annacusdin.com
Thanks |
Edited by - annas on 08 Mar 2007 7:27:11 PM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2007 : 12:07:37 PM
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| Waiting for a couple of people to return my calls, will let you know when I get more info. |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2007 : 1:42:21 PM
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I wonder how many of you realise that the high quality of Russian horses is achieved in part by the culling of foals that do not meet the stud's standards? Culled foals were/are sold as veal to locals.
Keren
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2007 : 3:49:27 PM
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Ok Angel, well done. x
MinHe, thanks for pointing this out, it's terribly depressing, I wasn't aware.
If you have information like this then let people know about it so that they can make informed decisions. Why don't you make a seperate post for this? Then people are more likely to read it.
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Cassie
Gold Member
England
781 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2007 : 6:20:17 PM
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Hi
I had no idea that this sort of thing went on. What about getting the ILPH involved? surely just because they are big studs and shed loads of money it doesn't put them beyond the cruelty regulations and what about this new law duty of care?
Christine |
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Jude
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
81 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2007 : 7:12:00 PM
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| My daughter and son in law work for one of the biggest players in the bloodstock industry. Yes, they have their own foster mares who foal at intervals during the foaling season although in fact many of them foal extremely early. If a foster mare is needed the foal is raised by bucket feeding and the mares readily accept their "new" babies. Sometimes the foster mare's own foal might be several weeks old when weaned and I have not heard of them ever taking foals away at a day old and they certainly are not shot. If foster mare is not needed then she gets to rear her own foal, which is sold at weaning - there is a tremendous waiting list for these mainly coloured cob crosses - most of them are by TB stallions. If the foster mare's own foal is a filly she may well be kept on to become a foster mare herself - they have three generations of foster mares. These foster mares are extremely well looked after and very valuable to the studs because of their wonderful temperaments and milk-producing abilities. I really don't see a problem with this - calves do very well when taken from their mothers and reared on a bucket - why should foals be any different. Obviously valuable TB foals will have a better chance of fulfilling their potential if reared on a foster mare and this is the reason for the practice. |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2007 : 09:31:02 AM
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This is appalling.
The ins and outs of the bloodstock "industry" behind the scenes NEVER fails to amaze me.
I fortunately live in an area where local racing is almost a "paying hobby" and our yards are tiny and beautifully run ....and of course foals are as rare as hens teeth so we don't tend to think about this sort of issue ~ we all know people who rehome racehorses off the local track and even THAT end of the industy rarely becomes an issue here....BUT I am SPEECHLESS at this.
Right ~ before we think that nothing will ever change, lets remember the HUNTING BAN , already law, and the TAIL DOCKING matter shortly to become law.
How were these practices brought to the point of become criminal offenses ? I dare say "ordinary" people brought the matter to their MPs and were not brow beaten by the traditional "Old School" members of long standing hunts with plenty of money and influence and friends in the House of Lords!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!( by the way, I am entirely neutral on this matter as we only drag hunt in Jersey as there are no foxes here and i do not know enough about it all to hold an educated opinion based on first hand experience)
Neither were "ordinary" people brow beaten by centuries of tradition and the mighty opinion of the Kennel Club and generations of "serious" breeders.
Change IS POSSIBLE.
People DO need to shout and make a fuss, embarrassingly loudly ( though preferably not illeagally or contrary to the sort of guidelines we have here on AL) and if it takes distributing information all over the place.
One major problem with the racing industry is the BETTING PUBLIC who don't give a toss about the animals on whom they squander massive amounts. Horse lovers at a race course might seem to be in the minority in the face of those out for a laugh or out to WIN. It is THESE people that ALSO need to know what happens ~ the general public!!!!!!!!!!!
As with the Greyhound issues, it is the weight of public opinion that eventually makes a difference.
I wish I could help in a practical way.
Here I sit on this isolated lump of stone,( Jersey) miles away from anywhere and with no MP to badger!
I will of course, sign a petition IF my name counts in the UK ~ but I'll sign it anyway.
I am currently involved in painting racehorses....basically as being involved in a small way means I can affiliate myself to things like Greatwood's retraining schemes and raise awareness of THAT end of the "cast off" side of the industry.....and if I can in any way start making people realise the "wastage" that goes on, maybe little by little a few more will get to hear and things will change....???? You need to change some things from WITHIN and I suppose I'm an infiltrator!
Good God, when I think of the days when I was a memeber of Elite Racing Club and used to look forward to the newsletters with news of the pregnant mares, births, foals ALL with their Mums ( previous winners on the track)and seeing the kind of care taken with them ALL....it never occurred to me anyone might FOSTER foals who HAVE Mums already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is there NO depths to which GREEDY mankind sinks???????????
Those poor greiving TB mares deprived of their babies, slaughtered foals hours old, little lost foals bewildered until they settle with another "mum", cob Mums ferried about with their own pitifully unwanted babies surplus to requirements dead and discarded....dear God, no wonder TBS can end up psychotic and only fit for the knackers even before they get to the track sometimes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can only marvel at the sanity of the COB mares.
WE HAVE TO MAKE OURSELVES HEARD.
If we all try to do whatever we can to raise awareness, one day the RIGHT person will hear.
The more opportunities we take to make a fuss the more chances we have of being heard ~ so PLEASE nobody assume that we CAN'T change things ~ it's corny, but a journey of a thousand miles starts with ONE STEP ~ so get walking and talking EVERYONE.
Is there any "official" brief on this practice anywhere at all, please....becaue IF there is, then my clients are going to get to hear about it and any of my friends in racing locally.....just to make sure they KNOW where their last youngster came from and how they were raised.
If OWNERS ( and SO many are un horsey members of syndicates and totally unaware of equine welfare anyway)knew the practices that had led to the rearing of a filly or colt, maybe THEY would be unwilling to buy????
A bit like people not buying battery eggs or penned veal etc????
There are MANY levels at which awareness can be raised and certains yards/studs boycotted.
Lets BELEIEVE we can at least START to change things. |
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Grey Girl
Platinum Member
England
1554 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2007 : 1:14:01 PM
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MPs, newspapers etc won't be interested in this unless definite hard facts are produced: actually, I would think an emotional appeal will end back-firing when studs (hopefully the majority) who don't indulge in the practice of slaughtering newborn foals to provide foster mothers all come to the fore and protest their innocence.
However, for my twopennyworth: the MP to contact is JAMES GRAY, MP for North Wiltshire as he is a horsey person and is, I think, some sort of shadow-minister-for-the-horse (he does raise horsey issues). He also does actually reply to mail and does seem to generally try and do things for people. But send him real, definite information: no-one can do anything without it. Hearsay etc is no use; especially as the practice doesn't appear to break any laws: you'll need the same level as detail as a 'real' criminal prosecution would need.
I have to admit that I am extremely surprised that such a practice occurs, especially as it is suggested that it is a largescale one. If it's just down to pounds shillings and pence then why don't the studs use surrogate mothers: they could put the 'original' mare in foal several times in a year then. (Yes, I am joking, that's an equally barbaric practice). And if the thoroughbred foal is so valuable, why risk it with a foster mare who might decide this baby is not for her?
The scariest thing is that those doing this are presumably people who like horses...
Grey Girl |
 Said the little eohippus, "I´m going to be a HORSE"  |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2007 : 1:41:01 PM
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I have just read this,I had not read it sooner because I thought it was to do with racing,which I dont approve of,for all the reasons noted.
Something must be done about this and I think if a petition is posted it should have a title such as "stop this cruelty,your help needed"just a suggestion but we really want everyone to read this |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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lynette
Bronze Member
129 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2007 : 12:25:51 PM
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I have been reading this thread with interest. Firstly I am Lynettes husband Peter. What I have here is the transporters guidelines from the new regulations that became current on the 5th of January 2007. The 'policing' of these regulations is Trading Standards, so they are the people to contact for any 'transportation' irregularities. This is taken from "Welfare of Animals during transport guidance notes. Quote:"Part 2A - Fitness for Transport" page 6 (c) they are pregnant females for whom 90%or more of the expected gestation periiod has already passed, or females who have given birth in the previous week. Females in the last 10% of prgnancy, or that have given bith in the last week are not fit for transport and also unfit for presentation at market."
"Any female animal that has just given birth must not be transported until 7 days after birth." end of quote
However there is an exemption with a 'but'
quote :- "There is a specific exemption for registered equidae from the above requirements "if the purpose of the journey is to improve the health and welfare conditions of birth". This applies only to "newly born foals with their registered mares, provided that in both cases the animals are permanently accompanied by an attendant, dedicated to them during the journey." The movement of late pregnant mares, or newly birthed mares and foals is therefore permitted when there are clear benefits for the animals' welfare in moving them. Improved birthing conditions could be: superiior stabling and facilities compared to the home accommodation; being closer to and experienced veterinary surgeon to call in case of emergencies; or having available more experienced staff to assist during foaling." end of quote
Therefore the moving of mares before the seven days is breaking the law. Proving the case and getting evidence will be the hard job but I hope the information can help.
Peter |
www.horsetransport.org.uk |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2007 : 12:19:29 PM
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Just a quick update, I am still awaiting replys from a couple of people and will let you all know what the outcome is.
Jude - Nobody has said that the foster mares are not extremely well looked after when at a thoroughbred yard and we are talking foals here, not calves!! The mare in particular that I am talking about WAS taken from her foal the day after it was born, as told to my OH by the owner of the mare.
You are entitled to your own opinion of course but I find it hard to believe that you have no problem with these foals being deliberately orphaned for the sake of a thoroughbred foal who, in your words, is more valuable and will have a better chance of fulfilling it's potential. Perhaps if this practice wasn't happening some of these poor orphaned foals might get the natural upbringing that nature intended and fulfill their own potential!!!
Peter - The info you provided is very helpful, thank you. |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2007 : 12:44:20 PM
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| Shocked-sick, sick people-let me if i can be of any help. |
pagey |
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