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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 10:44:14 PM
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Oh God, I feel really sick. Those poor babies and mares. People never fail to sink to lower and lower depths of greed for money through the exploitation of animals.
I hope publicity helps, if you can get it. Trying to get the MP for the area interested might help.
You could also get in touch with HAPPA---I've heard good reports of them
http://www.happa.org.uk/index.asp |
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Edited by - Zan on 06 Mar 2007 10:46:32 PM |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 10:50:08 PM
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Sadly I suspect that the RSPCA and other organisations will claim that as long as all the adult horses and foals alike have adequate shelter, food and water then it is not a cruelty case  . They don't seem to factor in the terrible psychological effects of separation when defining cruelty  .
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 10:52:35 PM
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RE: I have spoken to vets that have shot hours old foals who's mothers were needed elsewhere.
Unbelievable!!! HOW on earth can a vet justify this????? Do vets not have an oath similar to doctors about preserving life??? Surely they should refuse and report them to an animal welfare organisation or even police?
What would be the Royal Vet Soc take on this one? That's somewhere else to get in touch with.
Here's a link to the British Equine Veterinary Association:
http://www.beva.org.uk
I suggest we ask them ... |
Marilyn
     
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
Edited by - Sadika on 06 Mar 2007 10:57:34 PM |
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 11:06:10 PM
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RE: The place my OH had to go to today has about 9 coloured cob mares ALL due to foal and his wife grinned when she said she earned loads of money!!!! Aparently cob mares make the best foster mums. What a BITCH!!
She sounds like Cruella De Vil... |
Marilyn
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
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Tahir
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4572 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 11:19:34 PM
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God, how unbelievably awful, what is the matter with people?. As long as they are lining their pockets they turn a blind eye to the suffering of these poor animals. As for the vets who shoot day old foals, they should be struck off or turn their guns on the idiots who breed these poor babes!!!
I can't believe the human race sometimes, I agree with you Pat, it makes me feel so ashamed.
Carla, xx. |
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razgold
Platinum Member
USA
1576 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 11:23:31 PM
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I think the only way you will get any attention is to go to Watchdog and get them to investigate it. I remember a few years back a programme on tv telling about the mares in Canada that were bred purely for their urine, while pregnant, so they could make drugs for women to use for the change of life. The foals were put down after birth as they served no purpose. The mare was put back in foal again. They were kept in stalls 24/7 all the year around with a bag strapped to them to collect the urine.
Sue. |
 
www.lyndalearabians.com
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 11:25:06 PM
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RE: I have spoken to vets that have shot hours old foals who's mothers were needed elsewhere.
I expect these would be the same vets who put down new born calves because they aren't heifers.
Sickening.
We as a species can be so horrid.
Vera and Dennis |
    
Hampshire |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 11:26:03 PM
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Oh god Sue that's awful . I can't bear to think about the suffering of those poor horses, Jeez the things that go on in this world  .
Jen |
Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 08:40:42 AM
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This has been going on for years. I've had one of these mares for Tahiraa when she was ill. In her case she'd foaled in November so her baby was 4 and half months. Unfortunately it boils down to the fact that Thoroughbreds aren't allowed to do AI so therefore these exceptionally valuable mares are travelled great distances ( flown ) to their next husband and obviously it wouldn't be fair on their foals to travel with them. Thats when the cob mares come into play and foster the valuable thoroughbred baby.
I've never heard of the cob foals being shot - but some unscrupulous individuals probably would. The farm where my mare came from kept the 'orphan' foals in a large pen as you would calves ( yes they are seperated from their mums after a few hours so you can have your daily pint !!) The majority where coloured cobs and where sold for big money - much more than we get for our Arabs !!
Would I have another mare ????? Mmmmm never say never but now I have a wonderful section A pony who does the equine education and a 'shepardess' milk feeder for meals.
Just think on when you have your cup of coffee this morning and you are pouring your milk in !! |
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paul_exe
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2022 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 09:14:23 AM
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Gob Smacked 
What is this world coming too....?
Good luck in bringing this to the public's attention. I hope that something can be done, but alas money talks as we all know.
Paul |
     
Get over yourself: You breathe, you fart, what makes you different?
Gloriously Sunny Devon |
Edited by - paul_exe on 07 Mar 2007 1:24:53 PM |
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Wurzel
Bronze Member
Germany
68 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 09:24:56 AM
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| Some people will do anything for money. Words cannot express how I feel about this practice. I would be happy to sign a petition. |
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JMRT
Gold Member
England
562 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 12:15:07 PM
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The practise of having foster mares on standby have been common practise in the TB breeding industry for decades. Due to the fact that no one else breeds this time of year. The national foaling bank gets inundated for mares to suckle the orphan foals. Due to the TB strict foaling times January to June only as last covering for TBS is July 7th. No one usually has mares available this time of year. Hence why Sir Percy last years Derby winner was hand reared-quite a feat really and hats off to the stud for doing this!
Studs pay other smaller standby studs a lot of money and some studs actually do their own breeding just in case a mare is required.
The practise is NOT for mares going off to be covered elsewhere nor to do with the fact that AI isn't allowed-and thank goodness AI is not allowed but that's another debate! Mares in foal are moved to their selected stallions stud usually at 6 weeks prior to foaling. after foaling and after the mare has had all her swabs done she is then covered with her foal stood nearby in the covering barn. There are usually 8 stud hands assisting the covering.
the mare is then scanned at 15 days to ensure no twins, then at 21 days for a heartbeat. Usually after the 30 days scan the mares are moved still with their foals at foot ( now 6 weeks old)
So the coloured mare that got taken to the stud did so because the TB mare who foaled DIED! Many of the foals that are left get shot as the people at the standy stud who do this do not want the hassle of a foal so any that are bottle fed are really lucky! They are paid to provide a mare with milk and that's it.
Sadly nothing is going to change this practise! The guardian newspaper last year tried to open the can of worms of the 'useless racehorses' going to the slaughterhouse-around 5000 go there a year. Has anything been done? No. Can anything be done? No!
The TB industry is huge business worldwide and because of it it has paved the way for many of the veterinary procedures that everyone takes for granted.
I personally would not do it but then I don't eat meat, I only have soya milk at home and get my eggs from my friend who has a few chickens. As someone said earlier does anyone kick up a fuss for the millions of calves that are taken away as soon as they are born? No! Does anyone complain that the female calves are kept and the male calves if they are lucky get stuck in a field or worse stuck in a veal crate for a few weeks. No!
We are not going to be able to change the TB industry at all.
Can we not help the thousands of ponies transported for meat for upto 10 days on a truck without any food or water from the eastern block to places like germany, france and italy? these ponies, mares and foals are really suffering. |
Julie
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Judi
Silver Member
England
494 Posts |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 12:16:09 PM
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I would be happy to support any action than can be taken.
Unfortunatly I don't hold out much hope of ever doing anything about it, the people involved (and making the money...) are 'big' names. Not just in racing but in the this country and internationally. These people hold positions in government and large companies. as for Channel Four Morning Line I cannot believe the racing people do not know this goes on.( BUT I AM IN NO WAY SUGGESTING THEY ARE INVOLVED.)C4 racing is also part funded ( i think, via sponsership) by people involved. The racing web strecthes far and wide, it is after all a sport run and (until very recently), governed by a 'gentlemans club' the Jockey Club.
again, any help i can offer please ask. |
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Edited by - Jamana on 08 Mar 2007 11:41:32 AM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 12:33:58 PM
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Well I am really pleased to see a better response than yesterday when I first posted this! I have just left a message with the news desk at H & H, hopefully they may run a story on this disgusting practice.
I have also left a post for Admin to see if we can run a petition from here and if so could they help to set it up.
The more you hear about this the worse it gets...A poor cob foal, less than 24 hours old, loses its mum to a thoroughbred foal because some bloody Racehorse owner wants to ship its mare to be covered again! Its's TOTALLY DISGUSTING and on GMTV this morning they were talking about docking dogs being cruel....If that's the case what is this classed as then? |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 12:54:57 PM
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So horrible for all of them---the cob foal, its mother, who at least gets a surrogate baby, but god only knows what kind of practices they use to get it on her when she is grieving for her own baby, and perhaps worst of all, the poor TB mare who is wrenched from her foal to be shipped off to a strange place to be covered.
I agree that RSPCA will probably be useless here, but HAPPA might help. Even if they were to put a bit on their web site to publicise what is going on it would be something. |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 1:17:33 PM
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Sorry Julie, cob foster mares are not just sent to thoroughbred studs just because their own mare has died and left them with a 'valuable' orphaned foal. Just a thought though, if the said thoroughbred foals are so valuable then the owner should pay a stud hand the minimum wage to look after it by bottle!
With reference your comment "The TB industry is huge business worldwide and because of it it has paved the way for many of the veterinary procedures that everyone takes for granted."
Are you saying that because it is a huge business, full of huge money that they have the god given right to do what they like or that our veterinary procedures would not be as advanced if it were not for the Thoroughbred Industry?
There are of course lots of animals suffering all over the world. You are a friend  so I am certainly not getting into a debate with you about where I should get my eggs or whether I should eat meat. That is a totally different dicussion to be held another day.
If you feel as angry about horse live exports (I also hate this) as I do about this subject then start a topic like I did to see what others think.
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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Edited by - angel2002 on 08 Mar 2007 08:39:27 AM |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 1:28:57 PM
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There are a few things I would like to respond to in Julie's post. I want to make clear that this is not a personal thing at all.
>Hence why Sir Percy last years Derby winner was hand reared-quite a feat really and hats off to the stud for doing this!<
Actually no, he was raised on a foster mother. Not a foster mother of the type we have been discussing, a proper foster mother. Who the stud then bred another two foals from. This story is in an issue of the Pacemaker magazine.
>The practise is NOT for mares going off to be covered elsewhere <
Actually I beg to differ. this practise is not SOLEY for mares going off to be covered, but it does happen. again an article in a trade magazine confirmed what I already knew.
>Mares in foal are moved to their selected stallions stud usually at 6 weeks prior to foaling. after foaling and after the mare has had all her swabs done she is then covered with her foal stood nearby in the covering barn. There are usually 8 stud hands assisting the covering.<
A couple of things with this, for example a TB would stud would not accept a mare prior to swabs EVER. She has to have her CEM, EVA results with her before she is allowed off the box. A coggins test is now also required. Lots and lots of stallion studs don't accept mares for foaling. Increasingly a Stallion stud will not have outside mares on the stud at all. Mares are walked in from boarding studs.All mares at the stud I live on are foaled at home.
I agree about how covering takes place, to a point, not all studs cover the mare with the foal in sight. some foals are left on the lorry. It depends on how the mare is. When the foal is present itis restrained in a special area safely away from the stallion. Finally 8 handlers would be excessive, 3 is the norm perhaps 4 or 5 if the foal was there. what would 8 people all do???!!  remember thse are commercial businesses, they won't waste staff at coverings at their busiest time of year!
Again i want to stress this is not me getting at Julie, i am just clarifiying some points.
Back to orginal thread, i hope that going to the press gets some awareness.
RSPCA would be a no go as someone else said. a few years ago at a stud OH had worked on for a long time a mare was left with a broken leg for 4 months as her foal was 'too valuable' to shoot her. She had a foal by her side and was in foal again. They were hoping to keep her going for the next 9 months to foal the new one and put her down immediatly it was out. She was placed in a field at the far wnd of
vet strapped her leg and she wa sleft. OH called RSPCA annomously, they sent a represenative (not an inspector, due to 'who' the people were)The area officer spent an hour in the owners house having drinks then said 'Well I'd better look then' Owners showed a different mare, she wasn't checked agaist a passport. and then RSPCA man was laughing and saying he knew it would be a hoax. Nothing more done. OH rang all the tabloids, but no-one wanted to know. Poor mare eventually put down when her foal was weaned.
I will stop now, I don't want to bore you!
BTW OH left said stud after this incident..... |
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Edited by - Jamana on 07 Mar 2007 1:30:49 PM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 1:36:14 PM
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Helen you are far from a bore!! Thank you for sharing what you know. I don't like hearing these stories but we need people to be made aware of what goes on. Your first hand experience of this is helping to raise awareness of exactly what goes on behind closed doors.
I agree RSPCA are a total waste of time.....Will have a good think about this and see what is best course of action. |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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paul_exe
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2022 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 1:51:03 PM
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Hi Mandy
Hope you do not mind, and that I will not get into trouble from Admin, but I have copied this topic to the H&H forum.
I understand that you have contacted the admin team there, and hopefully with their readers adding their views H&H may be able to bring this to more peoples attention.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Paul |
Get over yourself: You breathe, you fart, what makes you different?
Gloriously Sunny Devon |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 2:17:43 PM
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I don't know what to say, I think it is sick!
The racing industry is such that it would take a whole army to stop them doing all the things that animal lovers wouldn't like - the breeding side is just a small proportion of the callousness of the industry.
It is all about money and big wigs.
If a petition was set up, I would definately sign it and ask others to as well.
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zara
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1066 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 2:50:17 PM
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What needs to be done here I think is to collect the facts, foals being shot, TB mare being flown abroad and their foals deliberately orphaned etc etc etc and start lobbying MPs to get a change in the law. Also if the people with the facts/first hand knowledge contact the ILPH and see about raising the issue with them, rather like the campain they are running to improve the lot of horses being trucked across Europe for slaughter.
It will take a while but lets start the ball rolling. |
"to his virtues ever kind, and to his faults a little blind". |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 4:27:22 PM
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I do not think its because no one has mares that time of year. If that was the case why do some of the large thoroughbred studs have in house foster mares. When I visited such a stud there was a field with approx 10 -12 foster mares with 'their' thoroughtbred foals. some of these thoroughbred mares are flown to their covering destination. There was a programme on TV not so long ago when Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber was sending two of his thoroughbred mares to Australia !!
This is the explaination I was given and it made sense. |
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