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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 4:50:58 PM
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Hi all, I'm new at all this but am wondering if anybody here knows anything about my boys dam or sire.
His dams name is Suraya, out of Shadyah by Glimpse of Destiny and if I've done it correctly, (very debatable ! ) the tail female line goes back to Kuhaylahajuz.
Suraya isn't on the pedigree site and I can't find out a thing about her as my boys breeders have moved. If anybody can offer any info, whether she's alive or dead, whereabouts, point me in the direction of pictures, it would be much appreciated.
I have discovered that my boys sire, Elitist, is dead unfortunately but cannot find out much about him either. Info on him is also appreciated.
I've been lurking on AL and following all the breeding/bloodline threads for an age now and find it all fascinating but do feel as if I'm blundering around in a minefield but it's so very addictive.
The desire for an answer has made me brave enough to post but I
shall now scurry back to my dark corner.
Any info will be welcome, thanks.
PL.
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Edited by - Professional Lurker on 10 Dec 2006 6:10:04 PM
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 11:03:42 PM
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Hi Lynn & Sue,
Thanks for getting back to me.
I had the data for Elitist6 from the all breed database but the link for Suraya would only give me a mare from the 1960's with the wrong parentage, so obviously not her. The link Lynn gave me seems to be the right parentage but not sure about Suraya's sire, Glimpse of Destiny. My research has him down as Arabian out of Dancing Destiny and by Ibn Sakr. This link throws up the fact that Dancing Destiny was a part bred not Arabian as I had thought. Dancing Destiny being out of Royal Destiny and by Crystal King and Crystal King also comes up as a 'Riding Pony' not Arabian as my fumbling around on the internet would have it. Then it all goes really pear shaped as I have Crystal King as out of Crystal Clear and by Indian King............. And no mention of the Trellech Courvoisier connection.
I'm well confused.
What started out as let's see if my lad's breeders have got any foalie picture's, or mum and dad picture's has turned into a hunt the ancestors thing and has got it's teeth sunk in deep !
My lad is called Omar and was registered on the 1st January 1997 and was sold to me as a straight Egytian. Not that I care what he is as I was lost the minute he stuck his head over the door when I was horse hunting, and there won't be any inadvertent breeding from him as he's a gelding, lol !
He was bred by a Miss.J.Hunt and Mr.W.L.Lewis who used to be in Wales but who have since moved, possibly to Norfolk, and he was a racer. I know he has a sister, also a racer, but don't know if she's a half or full sister.
So, as to whether this is the right Suraya or not, I haven't a clue, how many can there be ? Probably loads I suppose as the whole breeding, type, Old English, Polish, Crabbet, Russian, whatever thing has my brain in a spin.
At the end of the day he's a wonderful horse, his breeding, whatever it was, has turned out a well mannered chap with a good dose of common sense and that's what counts when all is said and done.
He has given me even more of an appreciation for the Arab breed than I had already and this hunt the ancestors thing has sent me on a learning curve and enriched my knowledge of the breed in so many ways. As somebody on here says 'Get a life, get an Arab' and I'm in total agreement with them.
Thanks again to both of you and if you happen to know where my lads breeders are, (stranger things have happened,) I'd be very grateful.
Regards, PL.
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 10:22:55 AM
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| PL, I think you need to go back to basics and tell us if your Omar (1.1.97) is registered and where, if its with the AHS, thats no problem, one of the AL girls will look it up in the Stub Book and confirm he's there and his correct lines...so back to you now for a bit more info...the allbreeds only gives you what you put in, if you have the right sire & dam and the year & sex, it will match it with anything on the records....wrong or right... get back to us we need to know.....S |
Sue
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 1:19:29 PM
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I can't find any progeny registered to Suraya on Arab Data Source, it's usually a few years behind so I'm surmising that Omar isn't registered |
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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 3:26:51 PM
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Hi Lynn & Sue,
Lynn, thanks for that pedigree, seems to be the right one as it ties in with my research and his paper work.
I have his pasport and he's registered with The Arab Horse Society.
His stud book reference is AHSB v 20 so I'm asumming that means volume twenty.
Now for the dumb question  ........ Whats GSB stand for please ?
Banat is a missing piece of the jigsaw, along with Fanfara as the data base came up blank for me and only went back to Fire Song.
Had my suspicions that there was Crabbet in him as he has that style of pink/white nose and that fits with what I have found out about his breeding.
Thanks both of you,
Regards PL.
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Moosie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
717 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 4:54:28 PM
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| Right here goes! Recognised the name from racing. Omar, ch. g - Elitist/Suraya(Glimpse of Destiny) Breeders Miss J Hunt and Mr. W. L. Lewis, owner(in the race card May 2003) Mr. K Omar. I remember him as doing quite well racing, know he raced in 2002 and 2003, dont know about after that, hope this is of interest. |
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Annette
Platinum Member
England
1551 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 6:28:23 PM
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Hi PL!
Some inaccuracies seem to have crept into Suraya and Elitists pedigree on the allbreeds database via Dancing Destiny. I have now amended these details, so you should find that you once again have a purebred Arabian! I guess there must be a Dancing Destiny in the show pony world and some eager soul had put the information on the wrong breed
Annette |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 8:37:47 PM
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Elitist is a Imad son, and his mother is Lysa, who sire is Firesong,
who sire was Banat,Elitist was a very tall chestnut Horse,
We covered Lysa with MA.Tiab for our very good friend Wanda Fischer
and when she picked her up she took MA Tiab home and he as stayed ever since and as had three daughters with Lysa who sadly died a few years ago,Elitist as also sadly died as well both were striking chestnuts Lysa was a beautiful plum colour with a Red mane and tail very striking
His dam is a Pure bred if you want more info come back and i will dig a bit deeper for you.
Nick Blackbridge Arabians
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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 5:08:06 PM
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Hi All,
Thanks Annette, did confuse me a bit suddenly finding part breds and show ponies in the pedigree.
Moosie, yes, knew the boy was a racer and have some of his race results too. He last raced in 2004 and then I bought him. Did you ever see him race ?
Nick, from what you say I take it that Lysa was owned by your friend so did she breed Elitist ? Sad to hear that Lysa has passed on but knew Elitist was dead, broken leg as kicked by a mare so I have been told. If she did breed Elitist would she know of Suraya at all ? You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of either Lysa or Elitist, would love to see what my lads sire looked like.
All this information is great, thanks ,
regards PL. |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 7:09:39 PM
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| PL not such a dumb question. GSB is General Stud Book. There are few Arabs left that are in it or can be in it. It's full of the country's Thoroughbreds and the only Arabs allowed in it are those who have both parents in it. It was something to do with the registering of race horses I think, but someone more knowledgable than me will have to fill you in on the details. |
Roseanne |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2006 : 3:51:00 PM
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I wrote a short article here on AL about the early registration of Arabian horses, and in it is mentioned the GSB - the General Stud Book.
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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2006 : 5:54:11 PM
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Hi All,
Roseanne, thanks for answering that question, all the shorthand is a bit disconcerting to a newbie !
Vygoda, which section should I look in for your article please as I'd like to read it.
De-lurking and getting up the nerve to post, plus making phonecalls to complete strangers has seen a result and I have spoken to my boys 'correct' breeder. It isn't the one's on his passport and think that might be down to him not being registered until he was five. Thank you to the lady who got in touch through the web master and thanks to the web master for passing on the message.
Sadly Suraya died last year but the very, very nice man has promised to send pictures and info on Elitist and Suraya, as he owned them both, and hopefully, some pictures of my boy as a foal. Which was my objective when I started all this research, and along the way I've learnt a small amount about bloodlines too, 
regards PL.
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Tahir
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4572 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2006 : 01:56:47 AM
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So PL, I believe your effort was well worth it?? and congratulations on owning such a lovely horse and your perseverence with his pedigree. Breeding is certainly a minefield, but there are so many lovely people on AL to help.
Carla, xx. |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2006 : 07:41:52 AM
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Hi PL,
Look under ARTICLES on the main site, then scroll down to GENERAL ARTICLES, then 'History of the Registration of Arabian Horses in the UK'.
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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2006 : 10:18:27 AM
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Thanks Vygoda, off to have a read.
Carla, my desk is littered with articles, breeding charts and other assorted info but it's been an interesting ride.
Always had a thing for Arabs but never thought I'd actually own one and such a lovely chap into the bargain.
Of course I'm rather biased and on a yard full of big horses have had to live with the 'You bought a Barbie Doll horse' comments but I wouldn't change him for the world.
We're thick skinned, well, I am, he's not, lol ! We can take it....
Regards PL. |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 8:52:56 PM
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Omar,Found his handicap rating for 2002, but failed to find any racing in the Arabian Racing Review 2002 for that year.Can you tell us what year he was born..
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 08 Dec 2006 9:09:14 PM |
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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2006 : 6:14:39 PM
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Hi Sue, altered thread title as suggested after eventually working out how to do it !
Registered 1st Jan 1997.
I have no racing results for 2002 but have some for 2003/2004.
Regards PL. |
Edited by - Professional Lurker on 14 Dec 2006 2:39:50 PM |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2006 : 11:07:39 AM
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Firesong.(1978)
One from Omar's pedigree. (Banat/Fanfara) Owned by Mr P.R.Warren & stood at Coed-y-Foal Stud in 1981.
Omar(1997) had 11 runs, 0 wins, with 5 places. for 2003/2004.Run under ARO rules.between 6 to 14furlongs.
Chepstow 7th.Stratford 2nd.,Uttoxeter. 2004.
Newnarket 2nd,Chepstow 5th.,Banger 3rd.,Wolverhampton,Stratford 2nd.,Wolverhampton, Newbury 4th. & Salsisbury 7th.2003.
He rang bells for me and I'm now sure we saw him run at Wolverhampton.. I will have the catalogue somewhere. I could just add the jockey, who he was beaten by,numbers running,weight, & rating...for the above runs if your interested..
Also, if he ran this recently, you could get the vidio of him racing...if your interested...ask for the number..
Hope that helps a bit...and you should check with AHS to see if he ran under their rules, prior to 2000?..
Others from his pedigree that need no introduction.Imad, Silver Flame, Ibn Sakr & Grojec. there should also be photo's of these around....
Sue. |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 11 Dec 2006 11:42:16 AM |
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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 3:07:05 PM
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Thanks for that Sue.
Interested, you bet ! I'd love to have a video of him racing and would be grateful for the number.
The picture of Firesong is lovely, have been told that some of his line were a deep liver colour and his white socks are the same too.
These are the results I have,
Uttoxeter 13th place.
Stratford 2nd.
Salisbury7th.
Wolverhampton 9th.
Another at Wolverhampton 11th.
Chepstow 5th.
Would be interested in the information of the others.
Newmarket, Bangor, 7th place at Chepstow, Newbury and am curious about the Stratford one. I have the results from the third race for August 21st 2004 2nd place. Did he run there again and get another 2nd ?
Either of the two Wolverhampton ones could have been where you saw him run.
Thanks for taking the time to look all this up, it's appreciated,
Regards PL.
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 6:11:59 PM
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Try Springfield Videos Ltd. tel.0115 939 0910, mobile 07973 410281. email. r.bastiman@fsbdial.co.uk....
you could also try Racing Advertiser for photo's, but they may not go back far enough for your races...www.thejockey.co.uk. if they have any you can usually get the proofs sent over the lines.
21.08.04.Stratford.2nd.14ran.(Beaten by-WA Savannah Sun)
16.08.03.Stratford.2nd.9ran.(Ghanati)
20.07.03.Newbury.4th.12ran.
20.09.03.Banger.3rd.8ran.
27.09.03.Chepstow.6th.12ran.
12.10.03.Newmarket.2nd.21ran.(French Lieutenant)
To the mo I have not been able to work out his winnings(££££)..
hope I've got it all correct...sounds as if you'll be joining the raceing gang......Sue |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 14 Dec 2006 6:12:50 PM |
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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2007 : 10:24:50 PM
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Hi Sue,
Thanks for those links and I've been in touch with both sets, extremely helpful, and they are going to go through their archives for me, (they do go back that far,) and I'm, hopefully, going to able to purchase pictures and video of him in his racing heyday.
I'm still on the hunt for pictures of his sire and dam as his breeder didn't get back to me with the promised pictures, RL is unfortunately hectic for people and things get put on the back burner, so if anybody has a picture or knowledge of Elitist or Suraya I'd be most interested.
I don't think I'll be joining the racing gang though, took me a year to get him out of toe in stirrup means 'va, va, varoom..............
Sue, you been an absolute gem giving me all this info, I'll stand you a drink at Malvern in August, heck......... I'll buy you lunch ;~)!
Seriously, thank you it's appreciated.
Regards PL. |
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bxps
Silver Member
United Kingdom
403 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 12:22:03 AM
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I am sure that if you ask sarah in the ARO office sarah@aroracing.co.uk, she could probably print off Omar's racing record. They printed one off for me for my anglo stallion Call Me Risky. I certainly have seen him race since 2003 when I became involved.
David Paton BXPS www.bxps.com |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 12:17:21 PM
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| PL, No worries, Malvern and lunch is usually on the rails and last year kindly provided by Vera, very nice it was too...hope to see you there.... also, I might be interested if you find anyone with photo at the races for 2002, as I am missing some from that year...Sue |
Sue
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Professional Lurker
Bronze Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 11:38:16 AM
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David,
Thank you for that link but I have already found and printed off all of his racing results from the ARO site.
I now have a copy of his races on dvd and also some lovely photographs from the Racing Advertiser people. Good luck with your lovely horses this season.
Sue, we did lunch on the rails last year too, didn't want to miss a minute of watching all that wonderful horse flesh ! I screwed up my nerve and accosted Diana Whittome, Imads owner, and she remembered Elitist and told me that he had passed away and she didn't seem that fazed by this complete lunatic asking questions. Poor lady probably gets jumped on regularly but kind of her to take the time to chat.
Who's photographs are you looking for from 2002 ? The Racing Advertiser people seem to have extensive archives and might be able to help you.
Unfortunately, being a computer dunce I don't have a clue how to post pictures otherwise I'd put some up for you.
Perhaps see you at Malvern this year and good luck to you if you are showing,
Regards PL. |
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