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templars
Platinum Member
 England
1852 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 11:59:25 PM
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We Old English/Crabbet fans have been having a bit of a canter about Straight Crabbet and Straight Old English. I've been asked recently, if I thought we should have Crabbet classes at Malvern and my answer was "no". But I do think there may be some enthusiasm for a parade of "straights" and "crosses" maybe on the Sunday following the Nationals.
The idea would be to show examples of "straight" Crabbet, Old English, Russian, Egyptian, Spanish, Polish etc so that people can see what the different types look like and try and understand and appreciate why we each like the different bloodlines. There could also be a possibility of looking at crosses. It's also been suggested that we then have a parade of horses with the same female tail line that would cut right across the "straight" definition and we would see horses from each straight group brought together because of a common ancestor. That would be interesting to see and I bet we'd all get a bit of an eye opener!
We could then combine this with the Sheer Versatility initiative which is a stallion parade aimed at illustrating the all round nature of the Arabian horse and which is a fund raiser for education of young riders in the Arab world. My thinking is that maybe there would be a link between a particular bloodline for a particular purpose, for example some lines are used predominantly for endurance, some for racing, some for dressage, some for ridden showing, some for western, some for performance work, some for driving. We could see our bloodlines and pedigrees in action.
This wouldn't be a competition, it would be an educational session, parade of horses and more than anything - fun!
Most of us are already in Malvern either with or without our horses. We could use it as a shop window to the world at large for our horses - even those that aren't competing in the "main" show rings. Those with horses who are of a particular line but never see a show arena because they are not "fashionable" or "show horses" could come and hold their heads high as ambassadors of their bloodline. It would be a chance for us to take pride in our horses and shout their skills without the stress of competing against one another. We could invite the general horse world along and maybe even get the AHS to cover it in their newsletter so that we could promote British Breeding and performance (in all disciplines) to a European (if not wider) audience. It would be a chance for us to share and learn.
Just my thoughts. I've been asked to help organise the stallion parade for Sheer Versatilty and thought this may be a way to kill two birds with one stone. I'd be very interested to hear what other people think. Would you come along and support by either staying another night to watch on the Sunday or bring your horses along to take part? If there's enough interest, we could try and get this organised for 2007.
Thanks
Rachelle
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joycemelvin
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Scotland
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Honeyb060674
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United Kingdom
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baxter
Gold Member
England
1123 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 09:18:50 AM
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Don't shoot me! Most of the big shows regional to me are incorporating Crabbet classes into their schedules, so i'm just interested why Malvern would not want Crabbet classes? I know the Crabbet society are trying very hard to incorporate these classes into events and popularity is growing, and classes i've seen and been to have been well attended. So just wondered why you would answer No? Am i asking a silly question, please don't attack the "novice"!
I do however think the above is a fab suggestion and i would definitely like to be "educated" whilst watching these, would there be a commentary of sorts to accompany the display?
I would definitely be interested in watching this and whilst i couldn't attend as i don't have "straight" horses i would be most happy to observe this kind of demonstration.
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 09:44:23 AM
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Hi Robyn
I'm a Crabbet breeder and totally support Crabbet classes and applaud the efforts that the Crabbet Organisation is making to popularise our bloodlines.
But, I also appreciate that Crabbets are not the only bloodlines that people hold dear and I think it would be a mistake to single out one particular line at the National show when in fact there is an opportunity to, perhaps, widen the knowledge of us all. I would certainly love to see examples of the other bloodlines.
There has been a discussion about 100% Crabbets and the effort that some breeders are making to preserve the 100% bloodlines and that sparked a response from several people (me included) who think that 100% GSB is as important as 100% Crabbet. And then we got to thinking about all the other breeders who have the equivalent discussions for their particular lines of breeding. And it just grew from there....
This is certainly not a suggestion to replace the Crabbet classes (heaven forbid after all the work that has gone into that) but more to complement it by showing (as Mike has indicated) that if we cut across most of the breeding regimes, we'll find common female tail lines.
I know if I were a Russian or other bloodline devotee, I'd be a bit miffed about all the focus on Crabbets at the moment and this was just a way of trying to even out the balance and provide a good spectacle for others. |
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baxter
Gold Member
England
1123 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 09:57:31 AM
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I understand now!
There was i understand in May an Egyptian Event, which was for straight and related Egyptian horses, maybe if more of the "straight" societies/breeders/show organisers, created these shows for their certain types, could we have Polish/Russian/Spanish shows etc? But then again it's taken such a long time to encourage people with Crabbets to show and turn up to Crabbet classes, perhaps this might not be such a good idea....
Tricky really , suppose showing just goes in trends?!
It'll be lovely to see this display if it goes ahead, and i look forward to it....
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Sheena
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1810 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 10:05:41 AM
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I think the idea of a parade is a fantastic idea - it will hopefully also show some people with little knowledge or are gaining knowledge that the same lines can produce very different horses from the same tail female dependant on the breeding decisions made along the way. How exciting and a fab idea!
I believe that Windella Silver Sensation has tail famale to Silver Fire (I am prepared to be corrected on this with my adled brain in UKIAHS 'oh my god!' mode) As does my mare Silvern Sheena - how different could you get - but both succesful in different fields!
I would be up for it definitly.
Very exciting and I'd love to learn more about other bloodlines too!!
Alicia
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Alicia
     
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Sasha Melia
Gold Member
England
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Honeyb060674
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United Kingdom
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 1:53:52 PM
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Ok, I like to tell , if I can so you understand my helpless english, how I find mine. You take your pedigree and follow the mothers line all the way back to the beginning . There you will find the mare there is the tali female.
You can use mine if your own is not on allbreedpedigree.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/marbon+mead
I´m sure you will find, that it often is so that she is the one there are less of.
You can do it with all the females and find wich strain, there are most of in your horse.
Good luck it takes time and is so exiting.
Gunni.
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Honeyb060674
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 2:09:28 PM
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No she goes to Dafina.
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Edited by - gu-ku-vi on 24 Aug 2006 2:09:49 PM |
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baxter
Gold Member
England
1123 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 2:11:53 PM
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| HoneyB - Follow the pink (dam's) line runs along bottom, click on last pink name, and it will take you even further back along the pedigree, make sense? |
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Honeyb060674
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4301 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 2:34:57 PM
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| Ahhh I see!!! I followed the wrong line by mistake! (DOH) Thanks for that you guys thats something else cleared up in the mind of a novice. I'm now off to all breeds to look up Honeys tail female line |
      
Claire & Sunny x
http://sunnyandclaire.blogspot.com/ |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 2:54:27 PM
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HoneyB - so glad you asked that question, have just looked up my boys tail female line.....never knew you could keep going back
His is kuhaylahajuz, I believe? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mishikin
Anyway, back to the orginal subject, I think it would be a fantastic idea to have a parade of the different types.
To see them side by side would be brilliant, especially for novices like me.
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 2:54:48 PM
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GGG, hope you have someone now to do the dishes, the dinner, and anything not so importent as looking strains.(lol)
Gunni. |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
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Honeyb060674
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 3:30:01 PM
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Lucky for me, I only work in the mornings so I have all afternoon to play....
Fancy them being the same. I wonder how many there are? |
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Honeyb060674
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4301 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 3:38:00 PM
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| I wouldn't like to hazard a guess Lisa! It would be interesting to see more, as people have said previously in this thread it would show the diversity of type from one tail line female. |
Claire & Sunny x
http://sunnyandclaire.blogspot.com/ |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 9:30:04 PM
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I would certainly be interested in bringing some of my straight Egyptians along and I have a Spanish/Egyptian (golden cross) stallion who might behave himself long enough for you to see him!!!! He has the fabulous huge black Spanish eyes.
Barbara |
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CeliaS
Gold Member
Wales
646 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 07:18:28 AM
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I would certainly be interested (as a spectator) in the idea of a 'straights' parade with some sort of commentary. It would certainly by very educational to see the different types of horses.
Surely with enough support it could be a feature at the next national show.
Barbara - I have heard of the Spanish/Egyptian golden cross but know very little as to why it is called this. Would you be so kind as to explain it to me. I need some education here
Are there any articles out there relating to this subject?
Celia
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Celia
    
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 10:56:05 AM
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Throwing a spanner in the works, I suspect that by Sunday everyone who has attended our National show is weary and can't wait to get home into their own beds and have a decent shower or bath so I therefore really doubt that many people would stay on. And more importantly, how is the extra day to hire the grounds and facilities to be paid for?
Then comes the question of what is 'straight'. I really do not think straight this or that reflects a particular type or style of horse as most breeding programmes have in the past included new bloodlines that are now considered 'straight' in whatever grouping as defined by particular afficionados, this in the last 20/30 years and in order to promote their own horses  .
And anyway, who is going to make the selection of horses forward?
Whatever we do, I feel we need to start small and not fall on our faces by any parade being a sad disaster  .
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 3:54:55 PM
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I think unfortunately, that this is one of those things that seems wonderful in theory yet to all intents and purposes cannot actually be done in the real world One problem is that the differances between "straight" groups don't really exist any more unless one is prepared to "fix" the result by being extremely selective in the horses chosen. In effect though; this is not demonstrating the differances between "straight" groups and bloodlines but rather contrasting two or more individual breeding programmes which is something else entirely!
Then there is the definition "problem" where the devil is in the detail of which horses fall exactly where! For example, a horse of almost entirely "Egyptian" breeding with one line to Skowronek could be shown as being "Straight Egyptian" at the Egyptian Event Europe, would only be "Egyptian Related" if shown at the Egyptian Event UK and unless sired by an SE couldn't compete at all at the Egyptian Event in Kentucky Similarly a horse shown as being "Straight Egyptian" at all three of these shows (very expensive and unlikely but theoretically possible) wouldn't be seen as such by the EAO in Egypt, and consequently would not be allowed to compete Definitions are a minefield for the unwary, where even full siblings may not meet the same definition
Then there are the logistical problems of getting a large number of horses in the same place at the same time, in terms of venue, stabling etc as well as simply persuading their owners to bring them along!
Better I think to start very small, on a local or perhaps regional basis and then if successful work ones way up with the experience gained along the way
Mike |
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Grey Girl
Platinum Member
England
1554 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 8:44:05 PM
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Just looked in on this: perhaps at Malvern there could be a lunchtime 'show' with just a couple of examples of a 'typical' Crabbet, Egyptian etc etc etc... at least it would be a start. It would be particularly good if ordinary local shows would have an 'arab demonstration' show with a few different types and maybe some sort of commentary pointing out what arabs can do. Might help alleviate some of the bad press they get!
I was very surprised to realise that Egyptian arabs in the UK are the very fine, seahorsey sort of horses, cos in Egypt you see lots of strong, solid-looking horses.
As for tracing pedigrees, thanks to the good ol'internet I've now got EVERY horse on Amelia's pedigree right back into the desert and the first horses whose details are noted by the Blunts. I'm now trying to obtain pics of everyone. I have a chart on my wall with just the basic lines, and it's fascinating (well, allright, perhaps I ought to get out more...!)
If anyone is interested, her tail female ancestor is Hagar. Anyone else got a Hagar tail female descendant?
Grey Girl |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 8:52:13 PM
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I was very surprised to realise that Egyptian arabs in the UK are the very fine, seahorsey sort of horses, cos in Egypt you see lots of strong, solid-looking horses.
Not all, merely those with a strong US influence LOL
Mike |
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