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Draven
New Member
USA
15 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Apr 2006 : 3:55:43 PM
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I posted this elsewhere on the forum because I had started talking to some people about a picture listed there and I guess it really should have been posted here instead. I was just wondering if anyone out there could share a little wisdom about pedigrees and percentages when it comes to the Arabian horse. I love the Arabian breed and love spending my nights researching different horses and looking at pictures. I love learning about the horses that make up the lines to my herd. I think it is so interesting to see where they came from. I have a small herd of six but my farm is growing more and more everyday. All but one of my gang are Arabian, my stallion is an Andalusian and I have breeding him to my Arabian mares and so far couldn't be happier with the results. I would much rather breed pure Arabians and pure Andalusians with maybe a few crosses every so often.. but for right now I have to work with what I've got. I couldn't believe my eyes when I stumbled onto this website.. this is the kind of place I have been looking for. I have to say though, you guys blow me away with how much you know. I would love it if you guys could tell me more about the lineage of my horses. The one thing I have never really understood is when people break things down into percentages.. with CMK, Davenport.. ect. What does all of that mean exactly? My newest mare, Blue Miykayah has a pedigree that really caught my attention and was one of the reasons I just had to have her. She is a little chestnut mare with three whites, a blaze that wrapes under her chin, two dime sized spots on her back, belly roaning, and a big white patch over her right knee. That was my introduction into the Sabino world. I would love it though if someone could take a look at her pedigree and maybe tell me a little more about her lines. I sat down one night and counted myself and saw that she has at least 28 crosses to Skowronek and so many crosses to a stallion named Mesaoud that I lost count.
My two other mares ( full sisters ) are my pride and joy though. I worked for six years at the farm where they were born. They were the product of a dear friends passion for the Arabian horse. They are both SHF Southern Whiz granddaughters. Thier sire is Remi Marten, a beautiful bay son of Cognac out of a mare named Alpine Wind Song. I haven't been able to find any information on her though. Their dam side has also been a mistery so far as well.. There are a few names like Serafix and Aza Destiny that I recognize but the female lines get a little unclear to me. I would love to hear anything you guys could tell me. I really enjoy talking Arabians and I just can't believe my good fortune to find an entire website dedicated to just that.
All of my mares are listed on the all breed pedigree website..
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/blue+miykayah
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cla+gin+whiz
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2006 : 9:57:42 PM
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Hi (again! ) Your horses sound wonderful have you got any photos? I love Mesaoud You can upload photos by using www.flickr.com |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2006 : 10:06:28 AM
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Mesaoud
Wilfrid Blunt had among his other interests a love of horseracing. He was inspired by what the infusion of Oriental blood on England's native bloodstock had done in creating the fast-racing Thoroughbreds of his day and realized there was a need for fresh blood in the gene pool. Thus began his and Lady Anne Blunt's quest for Arabian horses to bring back to England, and Mesaoud was one of the first horses they chose, purchasing him at the sale of the Ali Pasha Sherif horses in 1889.
We could write volumes on this page about Mesaoud's life in both Egypt and England and his lasting world-wide influence as a sire, but rather than repeating the best of what has gone ahead of us, we suggest you try this link for more information on this superlative stallion:
The Influence of Mesaoud by Chris Littrell
Several other articles of interest on the founding of the Crabbet Park Stud with specific mention of Mesaoud can be found at:
The Founding of the Crabbet Tradition by Michael Bowling
What is Crabbet? by Coralie Gordon
Crabbet Arabians (Arabian Horse Association)
In hard copy, we have enjoyed this insight on Mesaoud's life and times from "Looking Back" and wish in conclusion to share with you these excerpts and highlights: "Before he was exported to England, Mesaoud spent two years at Sheykh Obeyd, the Blunt's stud in Egypt. He was taken there after his purchase by the Blunts' Bedouin assistant, Zeyd. Zeyd protected the horse from the "evil eye" on the journey by avoiding all popular routes and bringing him through the desert. Upon their arrival at Sheykh Obeyd, Zeyd sacrificed a lamb in the garden and sprinkled its blood on Mesaoud's forehead, thereby further insuring protection against the "evil eye". Mesaoud became Lady Wentworth's favorite riding mount while in Egypt. When he was taken to England in 1891, he won first prize the the Crystal Palace show three years in a row." (Arabians September 1984, p. 152)
Mesaoud was sold to the Kleniewski Stud in Russia in 1903. He later stood at Count Stroganoff's Stud, which later became the Tersk Stud. After that he quite disappears from public record, and none of his Russian-born get seem to have survived the Revolution. Yes, Mesaoud's name appears in many modern Russian Arabian pedigrees, but none of his direct get bred in Russia appear in the Russian studbooks, only those descendants bred elsewhere and imported into Russia at a later date.
Pedigree of Mesaoud GSB #2070
Zobeyni Egypt 233
Harkan Egypt 231
Harka Egypt 252
Aziz RAS 41
Samhan Egypt 260
Aziza Egypt 230
Bint Faras Nakadan
Egypt 25
Mesaoud
GSB #2070
Jerboa Egypt 257
Aziza Egypt 230
Shueyma Egypt 258
Yemameh Egypt 88
Zobeyni Egypt 233
Bint Ghazieh (Wazireh) Egypt 232
Ghazieh Egypt 234
Sire Line: Zobeyni (Abbas Pasha) (Saklawi Jedran Ibn Sudan)
Tail Female: Ghazieh (Abbas Pasha) (Saqlawiyah Jidraniyah)
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Draven
New Member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2006 : 5:15:00 PM
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Wow.. thanks for all of the information on Mesaoud. I do have photos of my girls.
CLA Gin Whiz ( Remi Marten X LF Aerial Whiz ) and 2004 Andalusian/Arabian colt, LF Jose Cuervo
My Andalusian stallion, El Tigre CDP ( Brilloso X Centenaria )
LF Jose Cuervo
CLA Whizkas ( Remi Marten X LF Aerial Whiz )
Blue Miykayah ( Miykayah Shadday X K-F Bluegirl )
I read somewhere something about Mesaoud regarding his color or spots or something to that effect. Is it believed that Mesaoud was a sabino? I am just trying to understand better the Sabino gene, how my mare got it and how to best allow her to pass the gene on to her offspring. Do you have to breed Sabino to Sabino to get a Sabino foal? I have also heard several people say that Khemosabi was sabino. Does anyone here know if that is true?? I would also love to know if anyone can tell me what percentages my horses have. Are they crabbet, more Polish, ect ect. I am just really curious how all of that breaks down and how to research those lines better for myself. I really appreciate all of the help so far and can't wait to hear more. Let me know what you think of my pics as well. thanks guys |
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2006 : 9:52:49 PM
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hej,
There is a great forum of sabinoes on www.ablackhorse.com explaining the colour and everything.
On the other topic you mentioned Marbon Martini, Iīm the proud owner of her and have another mare Mead also from Diane.
Lovely horses of yours.
Unfortunately my web-site dosnīt work at the moment but have a try after easter so it should be sortet out again.
Here she is
Gunni. |
Edited by - gu-ku-vi on 12 Apr 2006 9:54:02 PM |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2006 : 10:24:54 PM
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Wow Gunni! She looks really well
Draven I can't see your pictures |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2006 : 10:29:10 PM
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Mesaoud
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Edited by - Deboniks on 12 Apr 2006 10:32:28 PM |
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2006 : 10:33:58 PM
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Your question about Mesaoud being a sabino surprise me a little, but what I know about the sabinoes they have to have at least high white stockings and a white underlip.It is what I read at the forum, but in that case plenty of chetsnuts are sabinoes.
Here is a pic of him, he shows not more white as so many other chestnuts.
Arabians have turned up in many funny colours I have shown this before but will do again for you.
Have fun.Gunni. |
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Draven
New Member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 06:02:45 AM
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First off I just have to say.. what a stunning mare gu-ku-vi. Ok..I think my confusion about Mesaoud started with comments that I had heard about him having spots.. I was sent to a website by someone on this forum regarding Mesaoud and being bred to Appy mares...
Website : http://members.tripod.com/~barnlot/arabapp.html
In John L. Baker's article, "Mesaoud, the Spotted Wonder" the parti-colored horses of the Abbas Pasha descended from either the chestnut, Al Mahyubi or his full brother, Jadib, a gray. Mesaoud traces to the two stallions a total of four times. Both Al Mahyubi and Jadib are Seglawi Jedran. And it is from these lines, and others, that the Arabian spot lines descend. Those horses that were parti-colored: snowflakes, mottling, white sclera, and striped hooves were a part of their makeup - their genetic constitution. A perfect addition to the breed known for its color patterns and other visible characteristics.
This may be the original cause of my real confusion. I may also have the wrong idea about what a Sabino really is. In all of my research, I have been given the impression that a Sabino Arabian is a purebred Arabian who has markings similar to that of a Paint horse.. such as spots, patches, or splashing. I was given the impression that an excellent example of Sabino would be the horse you have pictured below ( Trabag ) If that mare is not sabino .. then what is she?? What do you call that?? I came here with a few questions but now I find myself even more confused than ever..which is good really. If I have been wrong I would really like to know so that I can learn. You have really started something here.. I am very curious about Trabag and would love to learn more about her. What an amazing looking animal. Oh I would love to find a foal with her in its pedigree.
I don't know.. maybe I have just managed to get my wires crossed. I have seen on this forum and on BobandEnas website where a Sabino is pretty much any horse ( usually chestnut ) which has four white legs and a blaze which extends down to the chin. But thats just not the impression I have gotten from my research. This is one example of a horse that is being labeled "Sabino"
I hope that works.. if not I will try again.
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 06:45:15 AM
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I was very surprised when I saw the diffination of Sabino as I also meant that they at least most have a belly spot.
I have a sabino myself, Marbon Mead,she has a big belly spot.
Iīm not into from whom and where it comes.
Sorry canīt see your pic.
A link to a sabino arabian.
http://www.coloured-arabians.de/enter.htm
What I can see out of his pedigree, there are only polish arabians behing him.
Gunni. |
Edited by - gu-ku-vi on 13 Apr 2006 06:59:46 AM |
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Draven
New Member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 2:56:09 PM
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Thanks for the link. I am going to try my photo again.. if it still doesn't work.. I will find the link again. From what I have been reading they are calling this mare a moderate Sabino. I have a pic of what they are calling a Maximum Sabino but I am going to have to find it again. Basically he is a snow white horse with black spotting on the skin and a little brown on his ears I believe.
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
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Draven
New Member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 3:52:10 PM
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Here are some pictures I found of what they are calling a Maximum Sabino. His name is R Khasper ( seems fitting to me )
  
From everything I have read and if I understand everything correctly, a Sabino can have markings limited to having white legs and a white facial marking ( blaze, bald face ect ) that extends down to the chin.. but just because a horse has those markings, doesn't make it Sabino. I think when dealing with minimum sabinos or rather a horse that displays those type of markings the proof has to be in the breeding. Its like my own mare, Miykayah, I would have never guessed or imagined her to be anything more than a normal chestnut mare if not for the white patch on her knee and the fact that it was listed on her papers. As I said, when I first saw her I thought it may have been where she had taken a nasty spill and the hair had regrown white. Then when I saw the mark drawn in on her paperwork.. thats when I became curious and started trying to learn more .... |
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Draven
New Member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 4:11:35 PM
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To answer your question.. yes .. the filly and the colt are both purebred Arabians. The filly is out of a stallion named Khartoon Klassic.
The reason I asked earlier if anyone knew which bloodlines seem to be responsible for Sabino was .. its just me but I have noticed a lot of Sabino horses seem to have Khemosabi in their pedigree. I am also starting to see Padron Psyche grandfoals with Sabino markings. I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed that as well. |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
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