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T O P I C R E V I E W
unicorn122
Posted - 29 Oct 2012 : 2:02:55 PM Hi All,
Bit of a long one, but basically I got my Gelding in September 2011, he came newly backed and previously unhandled. He was a bit small but healthy and full of energy like you would expect to see for a 4 year old arab. He was living out 24/7 with rugs and thriving. Things continued to go well until the end of January this year when he suddenly dropped weight. Advice from friends and YO was that this was probably due to the sudden cold snap and I should give him an extra rug and some conditioning feed instead of his usual plain livery nuts which I did, with no effect. (It seemed strange to me though that he'd wintered out through November and December and looked great) I then went to a nutritionalist who put me on some recomended stuff for weight gain (obviously I was introducing all these changes gradually!) Still no Joy so in March I called the vet. He had no other symptoms and was still full of energy. On examination vet said he looks fine except for a bit skinny and it was probably just the change in the weather etc but she took routine bloods to rule out infection etc. Turns out he had elevated GGT (a liver enzyme which indicates liver damage) so he was put back on plain food, put on legaphyton supplement and monitored for about a month, but level kept rising. She then gave him a shot of steriods and level still kept rising so we took him to Liphook Equine hospital for an ultrasound and biopsy. Ironically at the time of the biospy (end of April) he had randomly started to gain weight again but Biopsy came back as Sub actute/chronic liver disease with unknown cause. (This ruled out ragwort/tumours etc) He was put on a course of steriods and continued to gain weight and vet re tested and was confident he had recovered and it was probably a one off virus or infection that had now gone but left some legacy inflammation in the liver. We had a good summer, after him being brought back into work slowly. I recently went off to get married in september and was away for about a month which he had off as no rider and I just started lightly hacking him again the last weekend in September and he was looking amazing - hes 5 1/2 now, and he seems to have grown an inch and filled out and has been absolutley full of beans in the field and under saddle, jogging sideways, snorting,happy and really full of himself.. On Saturday just gone it was a normal morning, brought him in from the field as usual he was happy jogging,usual cheeky self looking forward to a groom and a feed. I had just finished grooming when he suddenly startled and stopped eating his haynet, almost like he was choking but no coughing then he started shaking and it was like all his muscles where twitching and he was pawing, picking his hind legs up one after the other. I was on the phone straight away to the vet practice in a panic. They suggested perhaps colic and to keep him moving. He was shaky on his feet but followed me, but every so often he would stop and start shaking more violently/spasming almost like a fit and he seemed really stiff in his hind legs. When vet arrived she checked for colic then tubed him to check for Grass sickness (due to symptoms I was convinced this is what he had and was done for) She pulled emergency bloods and we sped off to liphook to drop them off. The only thing that came back on the tests was the liver enzyme again, this time double what it was last time (it was 800 when its supposed to be about 12)and Vet thinks the build up of Liver enzyme lead to fluid on his brain which lead to a sudden onset of strange symptoms, but even her and the expert at liphook find this very unusual. He is a little better now, but still very lethargic and just not himself. His eyes are dull and he is not as alert as usual except hes eating and drinking now and has his (very enthusiastic) apetite back! I was just reacting to the situation on Saturday and rushing round to deal with everything but last night it hit me how horrible it was and I cryed my eyes out.
The worst is we dont know whats causing it. No ragwort or tumour, he has the same pasture, hay, water as all the others and they're all fine.
Does anyone have any experience of anything like this? vet doing more bloods today and he is likely to go for another biopsy end of the week :-(
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
unicorn122
Posted - 09 Mar 2017 : 12:18:47 PM Sadly this problem has raised its ugly head again 5 years later :( We moved to another new yard 2 years ago which is about 1.5 miles away from where we were originally. Either he's allergic to the ground in our area, or it is a genetic problem. Very strange.
Callisto
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 1:57:16 PM Congratulations on your great news, so glad to read he is back to his best (and better, since he now has a flowing mane as well!)
debs
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 1:35:50 PM Brilliant news...made my eyes leak a little!!! I think photo's are definitely the order of the day!
unicorn122
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 1:25:00 PM Such great news CarolB I also loved your post - I remember when Jack got his first normal blood result in a year! I was over the moon, he is also looking fine now and back in light work (only light due to my time constraints :|) but he is full of beans
brack369
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 8:57:40 PM Great news!!. My aunt has been through similar with her horse, a long stressful experience. Glad you and your boy have come through the other side
carol B
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 7:39:10 PM Thank you Pasch and Pop. It's been a heck of a journey with him! I do have photos, can some kind soul please tell me how to magically magic them from Dropbox onto here?
Pasch
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 1:17:06 PM Wonderful news and really enjoyed reading your so well written post. Echoing Pop,pictures please?
Pop
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 08:32:41 AM Wow, that's brilliant. Actually made the screen a bit blurry. I hope you feel much better too, its exhausting emotionally.
Any pictures?
carol B
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 06:54:20 AM Months and months later and finally an update from me. In Feb I moved my poorly boy and his friends off to a livery yard. By this time he looked so thin that we had to put a notice up on his stable door to say he was very ill, under the vet and his appearance wasn't due to neglect and cruelty, you know what big livery yards can be like! He was on huge doses of steroids, pills at first and then daily injections. His appetite was good, luckily, so I put him on Saracens Show Improver (the title of which seemed like a cruel joke, given the way he looked) alfafa with oil and racehorse hay (not quite sure which grasses it was made of but it smelt heavenly). The horrible spring dragged on. Endless rain, bitterly cold winds, the days and weeks merged into one long exhausting slog looking after not just the poorly one but the other 3 as well. Nothing seemed to change. I found a job (had to pay for that hay somehow!) manning (well, womanning) a toll bridge, in retrospect it wasn't a very bright move working for hours outside in the freezing winds, within a few weeks I came down with the worst flu I've ever had and was in bed for a week. Luckily I had cover for the horses at the livery yard but it was my darkest hour and I seriously considered having the boy PTS, I felt neither of us could go on....
Everything passes. Spring started properly and the boy started to look better. It was a very gradual process, less ribs showing, a bit of a gleam to his coat. Something was working, or it was combination of everything. The vet came and blood tested him, his liver was working normally, all of his blood counts were near enough normal and she could see a difference in him. I cried. He started going out in the paddocks with others and he picked up even more. Fast forward to May and we weaned him off of the steroids and I held my breath, would he relapse without them? No!!! Hurrah!!!!! By June you couldn't tell he'd ever been ill. At the start of July the vet said I could start riding him again (gulp!), gentle 10 minute hacks at first, she said, to begin building up lost muscle. Hah...gentle? he was raring to go!
So here we are in July. I now have my beautiful, fat, (I'm not ashamed he's fat), glossy, opinionated and fiery boy back. I did shed some tears the first time I rode him last month, I honestly never thought I'd be sitting on him and seeing that beautiful arched chestnut neck in front of me ever again. Oh, his neck, or rather his mane, here's a weird thing, he's never had a particularly good mane after having sweetitch on and off for years, but all through his illness his mane grew and grew and he's now got the most fabulous rippling long mane and forelock. Anyway, he's fine, I'm back in the saddle and all is well.....everything crossed it continues..
unicorn122
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 12:31:22 PM Pasch you're right it is a bit worrying. They are aware of the problem and I have told them that he is better now we've moved. I am popping to see them this weekend so I will see what's happening.
Pasch
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 7:37:07 PM I'm glad he's ok now!But I would be worried about the other horses at the old yard,are they aware of the problem?They should run tests on grazing/hay/water there until they find out the cause of what looks like poisoning of some sort.
pinkvboots
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 7:23:32 PM Glad his tests are now normal must be a relief.
joanna_piana
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 6:19:55 PM That's great so pleased he's come through it
unicorn122
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 5:53:41 PM So last week the vet phoned me and told me Jack's latest bloods had come back normal!!!
this is the first time since he first had a test that his liver enzymes were anywhere near the normal range!
So it was most definitely the grazing/something at our old yard. We will keep an eye on him of course and do follow up tests, but looking good for us now
unicorn122
Posted - 07 Mar 2013 : 09:34:31 AM Hi There
I emailed you. Mine has been at his new yard for a couple of months now and looking fine. I need to call the vet to come out for some follow up bloods soon and Ill update everyone then.
Emmaowen
Posted - 07 Mar 2013 : 08:49:16 AM Hi can you email me please unicorn? I have had the EXACT same issues an after a combined Almost 10k of vet fees between mine and my friends horses I may be able to tell you some of the things we've tested etc. we still have no answers and our ggt has been as high as 1200!! All three horses at ours look well and all three have been affected. My email is lyndsey.downes@shorelinehp.com :)
jobo
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 12:40:34 PM Hi this may no use atall but here goes i was diagnosed with pernicious anemia 6 months ago and im not sure if the studies have been done about if horses suffer or not? I have to have an injection of b12 once a month for life now or it will cause all sorts of problems. But i just wondered if the self harming comes from the feeling of what they call "ant crawling" under te skin this is what i get and it can drive you mad but as for a horse suffering with it i think it would cause it too bite and scratch its self mad,its like incects under you skin and you cant get to it if you know what i mean. Its too with the stomache not being able to absorb b12 due to autoimune problems so i wonder if there is a link ?? If so then b12 jabs should control it.It also affects your brain ,memory is a real problem,also amkes you nervious and really drives you crazy,so maybe more research needed on it,there behind with people which is so frustrating to say the least,hope they continue to recovery quickly,all the best
unicorn122
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 10:27:25 AM Thanks Pasha
we're pretty positive its something the grazing, but I would be interested to do that test to see the result. I know its not hay or haylage as we get it from different places and when he got sick last year he hadnt really had any yet as we still had really good grass. Now the grass is all frozen and hes only eating hay pretty much 24/7 he seems much better. Also hes just on basic chaff and cubes, bit of sugar beet in winter - no Mineral overload and since he got sick he has had a liver supplement.
If its a virus tho thats good news as its a one off incident :). Thats what The vet initially thought Jack had.
Pasha
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 09:38:08 AM Hope your boys get better after the move!
We think shesky's was a virus, but I had just moved him anyway when he was diagnosed, so at least I know if it was his old grazing, it can no longer harm him anyway!
If you source your hay/haylage from the same place and it's not branded, you can send a sample to Dodsen & Horrell for anaylsis - you will need to call them and ask specifically for Mycotoxin Analysis and they will send you a special form (it's not one of the standard ones on their webpage).
I am not sure if they can do this for your gazing as well - I would assume so if you sent them a sample?
Also worth testing the minerals to make sure you aren't overloading anything xxx
unicorn122
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 09:36:38 AM Carol, I notice as well from your previous thread that you moved yards prior to him losing the weight.. It really seems like that is the problem. Mine has been poorly on and off since last year when I got him, and we only now have come to the conclusion that it was his environment . Can I ask what type of pasture it was? Is it new to horses or is it established grazing? Mine was on a river and I think that may have something to do with it. Theres no ragwort, clover or toxic plants of any kind... Me and the vet went through it with a fine tooth comb
unicorn122
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 08:06:19 AM Hope both of you continue to get positive news on your boys x Carol it sounds like a similar situation to mine. I had never heard of the grass itself having toxins or anything that can can cause a problem, but it looks like this is the case. Vet likened it to an alcoholic that was having liver treatment but kept drinking! I'm hope ing a move will return his results back to normal with supplements as he has no perm damage.
carol B
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 06:41:01 AM An update on my boy with liver problems. He had a scan and a biopsy, the scan showed no abnormalites and the biopsy was inconclusive. As he was continuing to lose weight the vet put him on steroids, Prednisole, 90 a day. He had another blood test after 5 weeks which showed his liver was recovering well, but his weight had dropped even further, despite a good feeding regime, which was mystifying. He's now on steroid injections daily..has been for the last 2 weeks....I'm worried about the risk of laminitis with them but the vet said it's now a kill or cure situation and needs must etc. He's on 4 feeds a day. On the vet's advice I've now moved yards. Rather scarily, his field companion, arab x welsh mare, started to lose weight quite quickly a few weeks ago, she'd had a blood test and it seems she has liver damage too but not to the same extent as my boy. I've moved her to the new yard with him, she's not being treated at the moment, we are hoping that simply a change of location might do the trick..
Pasha
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 4:30:31 PM Forgot to add that I had our Haylage (cut from the field he grazes in in winter) tested for all minerals and mycotoxins - thankfully all ok
Pasha
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 4:26:54 PM This thread seems to be soo topical as my little Shesky also has Hepatitis at the moment
He started losing weight through Aug/Sept and became really lethargic, so I called the vet. he is 16 and was already diagnosed with EMS, so the vet immediately thought PPID (Cushings). He was right BUT he also had raised liver enzymes: AST 632 and GGT 207.
The vet only wanted to treat the PPID for the first 4 weeks so he put him on 1mg Prascend and then retested. I did however contact the feed companies and take him off Linseed, put him onto D&H Ultimate Balancer which is high in B Vitamins and gave him the Equimins Liver Cleanser.
His next results showed his ACTH (PPID meausure) had come down, but his Liver Enzymes were not improved: AST 636, GGT 211 and GLDH 104
My vet didn't want to scan and perform a Biopsy on Shesky as he said it would serve no purpose as he wouldn't change the treatment. So he gave him a 10 Day course of antibiotics (standard ones that I have had for Mud Fever in the past) and a 30 day course of Hepatosyl.
Weight wise, Shesky put back all his weight over this month and looked and felt great (bucking and biting everyone, his two favourite pasttimes!). When I finished the Equimins I started giving him a Milk Thistle (D&H do a big sack) and Apple Cider Vinegar as recommended by Saracen.
The vet retested Shesky last Friday and called me Monday morning with the good news that his Liver Enzymes have improved a lot I on't have the exact numbers but they are being sent to me. They still arent normal, so he is to continue on Hepatosyl and we will retest again in 4 weeks... poor Shesky feels like a pin cushion, but he is enjoying all the pamering!
unicorn122
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 3:16:49 PM Hi All,
I thought Id give another update on my little boy and his liver... Well the vet wanted him to have another biopsy just so we could see how his liver was compared to last time. I agreed as I was so desperate to get some answers. We got the results back last week and they were pretty much the same as they were last time, inflammed, especially in the bile ducts but no permanant damage (thank god)and now bombshell both my vet and the vet at the hospital have told me to move yards!! Basically they think its simply down to the pasture we are on and something in the soil he is sensitive to (we are next to a river) have good reason to believe they are right. We are moving to a place on the other side of town. Bit further for me and due to my work and commute he will have to be looked after by YM mon to fri - it will be really weird not seeing him during the week :| but I have to do anything I can to make sure he stays well (hes happy and in v good condition at the mo)
. Can I ask what type of pasture it was? Is it new to horses or is it established grazing? Mine was on a river and I think that may have something to do with it. Theres no ragwort, clover or toxic plants of any kind... Me and the vet went through it with a fine tooth comb
BUT he also had raised liver enzymes: AST 632 and GGT 207. 
