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T O P I C R E V I E W
suyents
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 9:29:20 PM i would like to congratulate all those breeders out there who have finally perfected the gene for bald head and necks...i realise it has taken some time to be fully successful, as along the way it has no doubt been responsible for the appearance of bodies that appear tubular and legs that appear to look like toothpicks. However, with this season's new crop of foals, we can finally enjoy the bald headed Arabian in all its glory. Foals no longer have to suffer the ignominy of fluffy faces but have a svelte new look, all the better for those admirers who cannot discern a typey face when they see one...Some lucky breeders have even managed to achieve the bald neck as well, so that youngstock now models the latest fashion in body hair from the shoulder line backwards, almost as if the image has been Photo cropped or the lucky individual clothed in the latest cashmere jumper. it must make breeders so far not able to emulate this latest genetic fashion truly despair, as their foals frolic in the Spring sunshine with fully foliated faces, as would be buyers or admirers are obviously too ignorant nowadays to appreciate any beauty under the hirsute look Nature intended. Thank goodness for the erstwhile clipper; will we soon be blessed with completely hairless Arabians, or would that show up too many faults...After all, since foals are clipped to prove how stunning they are, should we assume that the unclipped face has something to hide?? OBVIOUSLY...NOT!!
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
MinHe
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 5:34:06 PM
Originally posted by Esther
And yet at the same time, you constantly hear (non-arab) people bemoaning the lack of 15-15.2 all rounder riding horses...
What will it take to make them see that this is exactly what the arab is? Even our 'own' marketing only seems to focus on endurance and racing and showing. Actually, if you want a safe, sound horse that will do a fun ride one week, a clear round the next, a dressage test the next, and will also safely hack out in the busiest of places, be your best friend, look after novices when needed, and go in harness, all with the most fantastic sense of fun and love of life, and be drop dead beautiful to boot, then you want an arab.
Exactly what I have been trying to convince the AHS they should be marketing ever since I was a student!
Keren
Sahir
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 08:49:30 AM tiny - I have sent you a PM - you havn't read it yet !!!
Alyth Long
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 08:30:50 AM Exactly Esther!! But it needs more of us out there doing it!!!
Esther
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 08:21:51 AM And yet at the same time, you constantly hear (non-arab) people bemoaning the lack of 15-15.2 all rounder riding horses...
What will it take to make them see that this is exactly what the arab is? Even our 'own' marketing only seems to focus on endurance and racing and showing. Actually, if you want a safe, sound horse that will do a fun ride one week, a clear round the next, a dressage test the next, and will also safely hack out in the busiest of places, be your best friend, look after novices when needed, and go in harness, all with the most fantastic sense of fun and love of life, and be drop dead beautiful to boot, then you want an arab.
Alyth Long
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 07:24:45 AM In the past the Arabian has been recognised as the riding horse par excellence....Look at Henry Wynmalens books for example. Here in New Zealand the Arabian stallion Shereef was recognised as being an excellent sire of jumping ponies. And some very well known international eventing horses had Arabian blood. So todays opinion of the breed has developed over perhaps 40 years....and imo that stems directly from the "Arab only" shows. The in hand classes and the ridden classes both. As they are competing against themselves they - that is the "showies" - have not taken into consideration the opinions of people not connected with the breed. And still, today, they do not give "outsiders" opinion any credence whatsoever....in fact those Arabian riders who compete in open competition are almost ridiculed!!! Whereas in fact it should be those riders competing in team chasing, open dressage and eventing, pony club events ( !!Yes really!!) as well as endurance that should be given the accolades, rather than the in hand winners at Arabian only shows.....It is interesting to note that here, anyway, the Arabian shows are reducing in numbers as there are not the entries to warrant continuing!!!
MinHe
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 6:30:04 PM As it happens, it was in the 1980s that the Arab started to receive this bad image - in large proportion I suspect to being shown as a 'fashion accessory' in the soap Dynasty, and the people that attrcted into the breed who had no idea about horses but aspired to the Dynasty lifestyle!
Pop, I have been saying this about the marketing of the breed for years - and this was one of the reasons why I stood for Council, as I am a marketing professional - but it seems that in this area, as in so many others that cause dissastisfaction, Council is happy to sit with its fingers in its ears and just go on selling horses to each other.
Keren
Cate
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 2:28:29 PM Lanabanana....I so agree with what you have just written. So many people have mentioned exactly the same to me. What they all forget is the Arabian horse is a desert horse and to take the tail carrying for an example it is to lose heat in the desert. So many people want an Arab but not one that is true to the desert i.e. large nostrils, high tail carriage, fine skin and coat, fine build which will go hand in hand with the other attributes I have just mentioned.
So many want an Arab, but one that can cope with the British weather by wintering out, not being rugged, a back end like an English hunter, and structure the same. Hey wake up they're desert horses and as an Arab gentleman of FB mentioned when someone was on about Arabs coping with wet, cold weather "they are bred for the desert" Can't remember all he said.
This constant moaning about clipping faces and bridlepath is beyond me.
Lanabanana
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 11:19:22 AM I have friends who have warmbloods who look down their noses at Arabs in general as being a bit 'poncy', but of course they like mine 'because they're not like the others', what rubbish (I bet a lot of you have heard exactly the same thing) Their dislike has nothing to do with face clipping or wearing a bit of oil on their faces at shows or even overlong bridlepaths. I've been told it's because:- 'they're too small and fine for an adult to ride and they ponce around with their heads and tails stuck up', in fact I overheard a steward at the AHS Marathon a few years ago say he thought it was revolting the way purebreds carry their tails! I have no idea where these ridiculous preconceived ideas about Arabs have come from, but I think you'll find it goes back a lot further than any current trends. I first noticed it when I started taking a real interest in purebreds in the early '80's, including 'why on earth do you want to get one of those useless airy fairy creatures' and that was from my not very horsy aunt. Like Steve (Misterei) I've had nothing but lovely comments and admiration for my horses at county shows
Callisto
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 10:08:46 AM
Originally posted by Pop
I really don't think the face clipping causes the opinion, its more like confirmation of the opinion.
Defending the Arab horse can be easy enough and fun; but I fear defending stuff like the face clipping can be difficult. I tried defence using the reasons given on here, in previous threads discussing the subject; well, you can imagine eh? ...
I agree with you Pop. Although I admit that I don't have to defend the Arab to anyone in particular, as far as my horsey friends go I've been riding Arabs for 40 years so I am a) eccentric b) a lost cause c) one of those batty endurance women d) likely to be a lot faster than your horse across a field, and anybody else just thinks they are pretty. However I wouldn't defend the face clipping because I think it's a strange thing to do.
Pop
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 09:01:12 AM I really don't think the face clipping causes the opinion, its more like confirmation of the opinion.
Defending the Arab horse can be easy enough and fun; but I fear defending stuff like the face clipping can be difficult. I tried defence using the reasons given on here, in previous threads discussing the subject; well, you can imagine eh?
All in all, the 'marketing' of the Arabian horse is not working, so the market shrinks, so the breeding reduces and so on. None of that the fault of the horse, but the marketing is so very poor.
misterei
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 7:57:41 PM To back up the point, I have been to three county shows where the more elderly people have stopped me and asked about the arab I have been holding, comenting on her being a proper horse, and being so well put together. This is when I have not been stood with other Arabs, but near rings with all sort of other breeds, and these people have not been Arab people, but they are genuinely interested in the breeding and sometimes surprised to learn they are arabs, as they are so quiet and well behaved.
Its a learning exercise for many, some learn quicker, I hope we all do our bit to demonstrate the arab is not just a showing horse, but when it matures it provides one of the best rides available.
Now we can discuss without naming names, which show ponies are not riding ponies.
BTW all of our horses have been bred from racing and show champions, apart from one mare whose dad was twice European showing champion and European Ridden Champion and the other whose dad has been European Ridden Champion.
justine
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 5:37:14 PM Yes George! I agree! Im no expert, just giving my views and how I do stuff. You are correct, go out, have fun and show em! :)
george
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 5:32:56 PM Quite honestly I have never met anyone who is that much against our breed and if somebody said such a thing as "from the coronet down" to me they would quickly regret it the people that I know or meet that don't like Arabs tend to be the ones who just have not had the pleasure of knowing one or in some cases have never actually seen a pure bred but have just heard stories about them not being easy to handle/hard to keep weight on and lots of other ridiculous claims made by so and so's friend who had one once. I think if there were more quality horses shown in local shows in hand as well as under saddle then peoples perception might well change a little, although I am well aware that I am an "amateur" and am very new to the whole Arabian showing world, I don't think that some pictures of a clipped head would be the reason for most equestrians to judge the breed as a whole. I do however think that we all should get our horses out there to as many shows as possible and especially the little local shows to do just that and show these people exactly what an Arab can do....whether the owner thinks it's beneath them to take their best horses to a silly little show is just helping to keep the Arab exclusive to Arab lovers....get them out there to prove the doubters wrong not squabble over who's fault it is for the way they are unfairly perceived
justine
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 10:28:31 AM Im back,sorry not finished. The standard of horses these days are extremley high! When a foal is born, the only almost sure thing we can see is face, neck set, tail set and angulations. The rest will develop over the next months/years. So, what is wrong with taking advantage of the foals obvious beauty. Afterall, nothing looks more beautiful than a fully dried out chizzelled dished face with flaring nostrils. The body, topline, movement also have to be excellent. Take a jury of 5 INTL `A`list judges, you have no-where to hide a short croup or a thick neck etc. Just because `MR ED` became INTL SH CH does not in anyway mean he was the best in the World and become a sire/sporthorse... its because he was the best on the day! There is no perfect Arabian/horse/dog/cat thats why we are still breeding, to achieve breeding the most perfect arabian we can in our lifetime!
justine
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 09:56:32 AM Personally - if I had a foal born with an ok face I wouldnt bother clipping. He/she would be allowed time to see if more beauty will come through. If a foal is born with an exquisite face, I would clip and take endless pictures to show the World. Conformation - Why are people slating horses with beautiful faces? Horses must have good structure to be functional. A face is just the cherry on top of the cake, everything else must fit.
Pop
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 08:36:37 AM The joke, unfortunately is somewhat 'gutter' and uses words I'm not prepared to repeat
And, the idea of the freedom of choice is one I would wholeheartedly agree with, we can do as we prefer; and those who don't like it should not look.
However: (and don't shoot the messenger, I'm just voicing the outside view).
The shaving of foal faces, apparently, is viewed as a rather unfortunate case of following a fashion or practice which, rather than enhances facial qualities, just looks plain stupid, and those who are following the trend and just copying the original creator of the idiotic procedure, (and I think thats directed at the V shape face clipping, it being done for training and handling purposes is met with belly laughing). It's likened to some unfortunate teenage fashions.
Furthermore, the view is that, whilst the equestrian world is respectful of a 'well turned out' horse or pony, the Arab horse is subjected to beautification which is better applied to an air head wearing high heeled white shoes, excessive makeup to hide the lack of natural beauty and a general 'falseness'.
Its of no matter to me what people think, except that whilst the cosmetic approach continues to the extreme it now does, the opinion will continue that the Arab Horse is indeed very beautiful to look at, but of no use apart from that.
Apologies to anyone from Essex, but the Arab Horse is viewed very much as the horse equivalent of the ultimate Essex girl, over dressed, over made up, thick and a brainless follower of other brainless dolly birds; and materialistic, in the extreme. (A view from which springs the eyelashes joke, alluding to the fact that there is little difference between the horse and its owner, and predictably downhill from there).
I don't really care either way on the clipping of Arab foal faces, except that it does not do the reputation of the Arab Horse World much good and reduces the market for the Arab horse since its just far easier to buy another breed and not have to take the constant p**s taking about how beautiful but idiotic our horse is, and a fine horse, "from the coronet band downwards".
Whilst the endurance riders do much to change the rather negative view of the Arab (aside from its beauty, and good hooves), when ridiculously shaved foals appear in pictures, the good work is forgotten.
Considerably more is routinely said, but I think you get the picture. And, I'm just repeating what is said.
george
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 9:31:54 PM I still say each to their own if you like it do it! if not don't....simples!!
basbob
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 8:48:16 PM Can I hear the joke too????
MinHe
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 7:12:54 PM I'm glad then that my horses have nice heads au naturel, and don't need "enhancing".
Shaving my boys in the summer would be pointless anyway - they have hardly any hair on their faces. Oh golly gosh - is that what people are trying to imitate by shaving, Well, goodness me, who'd a thought it? ;)
(For the newbies - very fine (to the point of being invisible) facial hair in summer is one of the sought-after qualities of the Arabian horse. People whose horses are not so blessed by nature have to resort to getting the clippers out)
Please pass the false eyelash joke on to me, I'd love to hear it!
Keren
Pop
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 2:46:27 PM yes, the joke would offend, there are a number which would offend.
So, its not about handling and training etc, its about flying in the face of the natural beauty of the horse and some strange idea that the face clip enhances the look of the Arab horse????
Noooooo, you are jesting with me???????
Callisto
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 2:42:24 PM "...I spose those who do the face clipping have heard the joke (from the more 'rugged' parts of the equestrian world) about the Arab Show people, the Arab Show Horse, and the false eyelashes?..." Pop
I don't do the face clipping, but I don't know the joke - please tell me! (you can pm me if you think it would offend sensibilities )
It's not about training/handling, it's about people doing what they think enhances the look of their Arab, although it does get the horse used to having it done to them from an early age, which is handy if they are going to have their heads clipped regularly I suppose.
Pop
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 2:19:56 PM Just curious; about the position of it being a sort of handling/training issue to clip a foal. Why would you introduce clipping by clipping the face, even just a V shape, would it not be more logical and safer to start with clipping the body? And, where the foal could wear a rug if the weather turned. Then later introduce face clipping if its considered necessary. If the clipping of foals is about good horsemanship and training, rather than following a rather un-natural beauty look and the spineless 'follow my leader' trend, why the face?
It could well be a lack of understanding (and I include myself in the this) why the face is clipped in this way. If makes the Arab Show World something for ridicule in the greater Equestrian world. It really is thought that the face clipping (and other practices) an attempt at false beautification and only accentuates the view of Arab Show Horse World as silly simpering girly and false.
I spose those who do the face clipping have heard the joke (from the more 'rugged' parts of the equestrian world) about the Arab Show people, the Arab Show Horse, and the false eyelashes?
So, if its about training and handling, why the face, and only the face?
george
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 12:11:42 PM Just re read my comments and I must admit that the Welsh section A's that I see clipped are for the sale ring....just go to Brecon horse sale in Sept and every one of them will be clipped as well as Builth sale!!
george
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 12:01:00 PM
Originally posted by moatside
It is not "common practice" to clip Welsh breeds - although some do!
WPCS ruling is:
6.7.2. Animals, 3 years old and under including foals must not be body clipped for showing purposes. Long hair under the jawline and those protruding from the ears may be trimmed off leaving as natural a line as possible. The whiskers around the muzzle may be trimmed. 6.7.3. Animals 4 years old or over, which have been clipped for winter activities can be shown. Fresh clipping for spring shows is not permissible. Judges must take special note of this. Legs must not be clipped. Long hair under the jawline and those protruding from the ears may be trimmed off leaving as natural a line as possible. The whiskers around the muzzle may be trimmed.
I know they are not supposed too but it definitely goes on with a lot of breeders right here in Wales and I have seen this first hand plenty of times
moatside
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 11:41:39 AM It is not "common practice" to clip Welsh breeds - although some do!
WPCS ruling is:
6.7.2. Animals, 3 years old and under including foals must not be body clipped for showing purposes. Long hair under the jawline and those protruding from the ears may be trimmed off leaving as natural a line as possible. The whiskers around the muzzle may be trimmed. 6.7.3. Animals 4 years old or over, which have been clipped for winter activities can be shown. Fresh clipping for spring shows is not permissible. Judges must take special note of this. Legs must not be clipped. Long hair under the jawline and those protruding from the ears may be trimmed off leaving as natural a line as possible. The whiskers around the muzzle may be trimmed.
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