| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ella |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 1:58:50 PM
To raise money for medications for your horse?
My favourite boy has nearly reached his insurance limit & I have no idea what to do re deciding which drugs I can afford to keep him on. He has autoimmune hepatitis & is slowly fibrosing his liver. He has various medicines to try to slow/halt this process but to stay on them all will mean a £300/month spend that I can't sustain longterm.
Dilemma :-( |
| 24 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| justine |
Posted - 05 Feb 2012 : 11:18:57 PM
Great pic!
I understand, wish you all the luck in the world. You never know, a miracle can happen.
Glad you shared x |
| ella |
Posted - 05 Feb 2012 : 4:36:55 PM
Aww Justine, thanks. It's not that I think the advise to PTS is harsh, just that I'm nowhere near that stage yet. Should've made that clear in the original post. I think I've decided to stay on everything until every last penny of insurance & 'rainy day' money is gone, then drop to just 1 medicine & cross fingers.
Went out to enjoy him this morning as advised 
 |
| arabesque |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 9:22:30 PM
Just a thought, but if he's well and happy, able to work etc, what about considering sharing? Maybe if you had help for them both financially? Or rather than selling, reduce costs by fully loaning one? Would it be possible to significantly reduce costs by renting your own field, instead of livery? Alternatively, is there a way you could earn more, perhaps a second job? I'm not trying to tell you what you should do, just trying to come up with any possible solutions.
I really sympathise, it's the worst possible decision to have to make. Whatever you decide, you have no need for guilt!
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| Pheebs |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 3:24:56 PM
I honestly don't know, is the answer to your original question, but your idea of downsizing to just the one horse unfortunately does sound like the best option to me especially since they are at a livery yard.
Hope things improve x |
| justine |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 3:02:51 PM
Sorry Ella, didnt mean to sound harsh. Just being practical and Ive learnt not to let my heart rule my head in certain circumstances.
Ive lost thousands, just listening to my heart when my brain was telling me different.
You know your horse best. You probably know what to do in reality, you just wanted to share.
Good luck and enjoy your boy  |
| Eeyore |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 2:49:34 PM
It's a difficult question to answer because nobody knows your financial situation. I am going through a very tough time with my boy and one vet gave me some good advice. She told me not to listen to what friends / others say, that the decision should be mine and my husbands alone.
I love my horses and like you they are first and foremost my pets and part of my family. I would sacrifice most things for my horses but there has to be a limit. My relationship and my security I will not sacrifice because I have others relying on me not just my boy.
The article Emma Maxwell wrote in AHS news came at just the time I needed it and if I ever have to make the awful decision I will be able to take a more balanced view because of it. |
| phoenixbruka |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 2:26:59 PM
Ella,
I really do sympathize with your situation, and at the end of the day only the vets can tell you if things will ever get better or if it is possible to medicate on a lower financial outlay.
I dont think anyone was presuming your horse is suffering a miserable existance, I think people (including myself) we're just trying to be practicle about things, which is difficult to do when you love them.
Here's food for thought..... so far Bruka has cost me £8647 in meds.. at £120-ish a month,( thats besides the £3k the insurance paid out at initial diagnosis ) he's 20 in a couple of weeks and is likely (hopefully) to be around for another few years!
So if you can afford £300 a month then there's no question you should do it for a happy horse... but borrowing it would be digging a hole if he's got a good lifespan ahead as you'll never get back on top
Best of luck with it all, Its a difficult position to be in.
susie x |
| ella |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 1:54:20 PM
Thank you to those of you who have assumed my boy is not suffering a miserable existence. He indeed feels very "well", with normal biochemistry, a surplus of energy and he eats like the proverbial. He is ridden and played with as prior to diagnosis. Euthanasia is not currently being considered, though I have promised myself that the first day I drive to the yard worrying what I'll find is the day he will go. I'm sure if he maintained his current health, he'd have a long and useful life. My horses are first and foremost pets, bringing full pet value to my life. I'm not slating others' ethics here, just stating my own view.
My dilemma regards how much to rearrange life to meet his ongoing needs, how much to compromise on the gold-standard medical protocol and how to deal with not being able to provide everything. Guilt. Quarabian, is what I'll feel when he deteriorates, if I perceive this is due to lack of finance/medicine. I guess I am looking for help with how to minimise that guilt, and for any solution I haven't thought of.
Thanks Barbara, I'm already using prescriptions to source the best price meds, so no way to reduce costs there. Pop, a bit like in your situation, some of the drugs don't yet have evidence of efficacy in horses, but they do in other species. What did you end up using? Erm, I don't think changing vets will help - the medicine advice is from Andy Durham at Liphook and is specific to the histological diagnosis. It is possible to have "remission" from autoimmune disease and although we don't have this, he has improved on the drugs.
Wow Vera, re-mortgaging! I can imagine borrowing a chunk of money, that would get me to a point where he was fixed or hopeless, but with this horse you can't guess at how much/how long, and it is true that there is definitely no "fix". Hmm, borrow enough for 6mths then reassess? But we might be in exactly the same situation at that point. Heart says "spend on your horse, every week extra is worth it", whilst head says "what if you have to keep spending for years, when do you stop?".
One other thing I have fleetingly considered, is to drop from 2 horses to just the 1. They're on a livery yard so this would be quite some financial saving. But then there will be a whole other guilt process, particularly if Arro does have a sudden deterioration. Ohh :-(
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| gossy |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 08:45:11 AM
pop and Barbara your advice is tremendous and i hope Ella listens to you both, as i certainly would if i was ever in that position. |
| natntaz |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 9:00:10 PM
Oh i am so very sorry for your circumstance. It must be heartbreaking decision.
I just wish the drugs and stuff didnt make us have to make the choice. Only you
can make the decision and what ever you decide you have to make it for you and
your boy. I feel so sad for you as it would break my heart if it were one of my
boys xxx |
| Vera |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 7:46:16 PM
I sold my trailer and remortgaged my house to pay Dennis's vet bills after using up all the insurance money. The rest was put onto a credit card.
However although there was no guarantee that Dennis would get as far as he has we didn't know for sure that he wasn't going to get better. Hence my perserverance, that and his incredible temperament.
There are far worse things that can befall our beloved friends than being PTS, at home, with dignity and love. I think in the case of a horse that had no hope of recovery and quality of life wasn't sustainably then I would seriously consider loving them so that I would let them go. |
| Quarabian |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 7:35:20 PM
I wonder if what you are really asking us is what would we do? Are you already thinking that it is time to let your beloved boy go quitely to sleep and it is the guilt that is getting in the way?
The only thing I can offer is that 20 years ago you probably would not have been offered a choice. The vet would have suggested that he be pts. These auto immune deseases are hard to comprehend, but when the liver is invloved I am sure it is not a good prognosis with or without expensive treatment. I am so very sorry to hear of your dilemma. |
| Pop |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 6:14:45 PM
How very sad.
I have to assume that his health is OK and he is comfortable, otherwise the decision to PTS would have been already made on that basis; and that it is a matter of dealing with the cost to continue to keep him happy and comfortable; and that must be tragic for you.
I have experienced equine liver problems, and the cost of the medication was in excess of that you are paying. but the main thing was that the improvement was not significant. So i did some investigation myself; i found that the cost of the core medication was half the price on the Internet, so my first action was to stop buying it from the vet. This brought down the cost to a similar amount to what you are paying now. I then looked at the issue of how effective it was, and how effective the vet was. I decided that both were inadequate, or worse.
I wrote to a well known and respected vet, and the letter could easily be described as a begging letter, although it contained a balanced view of the problem, and i guess a challenge to his expertise. He agreed to come look at her. He was much in demand and was in effect 4 days late. He inspected the pony and the medication prescribed by my regular vet, he suggested that the medication would not do any harm, but that he would not expect it to have any significant effect.
He prescribed a new care plan and new medication, the improvement within 10 days was nothing short of miraculous. And the cost for the main medication was £37 every 20 days, plus an injection once a month, which i could do myself. Sadly i lost her some 6 years later, but not as a cause of the liver problems.
Personally, I would have to make a monumental effort to find a solution before i would make a PTS decision, its not that i am afraid of making that decision, I've done it, more than once, and it is painful indeed. Having other horses is a comfort, but each life is a one to one relationship, and the pain is not, for me, ever hardened by numbers or experience of loss.
Having said that, if it were a decision based on welfare alone, I would not hesitate.
When all else fails, the decision may be hard and heartbreaking, but necessary perhaps. Good luck ... try another vet. |
| CINDERS |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 5:11:02 PM
I agree thers it quality of life not quantity that counts. As Justine has said if the problem could be cured it might be different
Like Justine I been through it so many times when I bred Siamese and theres nothing worst than a very expensive vets bill with no animal at the end of it
I also could not take on £300 per month at the moment. To earn £300 net you would have to earn an extra £500 gross (approx)
Only you can decide as only you know your horse
Emma Maxwell wrote a brilliant article in the AHS news about this type of scenario |
| Kazzy |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 4:29:57 PM
I think there has been some good advice but all I can add if it was me is that quality of life is more important. The money side is a huge issue, personelly at the moment I coulndt afford to pay £300 a month for keep mine alive and going.
I dont know anything about what your horse has got but if it is failing his liver then there is only one outcome
Good luck in what you decide and I would speak to my vet and ask their opinion, they dont normally let you carry on if you are not able to finacally and the horse is never to recover.
Janet |
| littlearabians |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 3:49:57 PM
I understand its not what you want to hear as you clearly love your boy, but I agree with phoenixbruka and justine... If your boy was mine he would have been PTS... its always hard, but even harder when you just have one horse... having more hardens you a little.
hugs Jane |
| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 3:17:50 PM
Speak to your vet and if he/she isn't helpful ring another practice and tell them the situation and see what they can do. There is a MASSIVE mark up on most drugs as vets have a lot of overheads and also get people who run up massive bills and don't pay. Decide what you could relistically afford and haggle. The worst they can do is say no! I have a friend who works for a vet but uses another one for her dogs as she gets a better deal.
I do hope things work out for you and your horse.
Barbara |
| justine |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 3:16:21 PM
Im guessing you love your boy very much but is it worth prolonging his life on expensive meds? He can go now before he suffers and you suffer financially.
Ive gone through this many times with injuries/sickness/abnormalities.... ok, its heartbraking but one day you will know you did the right thing. Vets will bleed you dry, its business!
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| Offira |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 2:46:48 PM
Do you get the drugs from the vet? They may be cheaper online with a prescription from the vet. Alternatively could you negotiate with your vet for a long term use discount?
Such a difficult one. £300 is an awful lot of money to find on top of the usual costs. |
| Pasha |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 2:34:15 PM
What a nightmare situation for you! I agree with Susie but wanted to send you massive(((Hugs))) xxx |
| phoenixbruka |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 2:34:12 PM
Thanks Meg,
I do speak from the heart, my boys med's cost me £120 a month and he's been on them for 6 years now, its going up every year and money gets tighter every year so I completely sympathize
£300 would just be out of reach for me (and I think most people tbh)
Its a hard one indeed!
susie |
| Meggie-Lu |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 2:29:50 PM
Susie gives good advice.
But only you can make that choice.
Good Luck
Meg |
| phoenixbruka |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 2:22:47 PM
Hi Ella, what an awful position to be in
I think the questions you have to ask yourself are-
what is the quality of life generally and likely length of forthcoming lifespan
Can you REALISTICALY afford this on a long term basis? it could go on for years...
Its reallr difficult, and proberbly what you really dont want to hearing but know has to be said, is should you be considering PTS?
In an ideal world, if we all had endless money of course you'd carry on, but unless you have this is unrealistic.
Best of luck and really sorry your in such an awful predicament
susie |
| Meggie-Lu |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 2:19:32 PM
Oh Ella how terrible for you :-( I feel really sorry for u.
Im not full of many good ideas, but maybe you could do a sponsored something every month? Then when ur boy is feeling better do some rides in fancy dress or something. I no you could try and get a sponsor but i don't no what kind of deal they would want and you might not like that idea.
All my Best Meg x |
