| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Wyllow |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 09:35:21 AM
DESPERATE NOW
For reasons best known to themselves, probably fear of being sued for OVERDOSING, the vets although asked, more than once or twice, did not include painkillers when I picked up Milly's Cushings meds....which by the leaflet's own admission could take SIX TO TWELVE WEEKS TO WORK....and so NOW what am I supposed to do about the HIDEOUS PAIN that has my pony finding putting her head down to eat almost impossible and she is swaying and rocking so much she looks in danger of falling in her box as she tries to shift pressure.
Honestly, calling the abbatoir would be kinder than leaving her without pain relief.
I am doing all the right things , all I can...everything I can think of and all everyone else thinks of tooo....maybe too much.....and she has worsened every day for five weeks.
This is CRUELTY and they will not listen to me.
ASPRIN???? IBUPROFEN??????VOLTAROL......ANTHING AT ALLL???? I know aspirin has been used, even the laminitis trust mention it on their site, for pain in laminitis.....
I am in Jersey. We do not have veterinary practices in plenty when it comes to equines. The only other one put down FIVE HEALTHY ARABS last Christmas.....long story .....and I do NOT want to have to go to them.....they also advised once to PTS a friend's HEALTHY 7 year old Irish Draught for suspected ringbone.....because he failed a flexion test!!!!! He is STILL WELL! HAPPY AND SOUND with his owner in France.
HAS ANYONE EVER USED "human" pain meds for a horse in a desperate situation?
Equine specialist vets probably now off for the weekend and the last vet bill was over £ 800 .....frankly these weekend call outs are KILLING me and I could be forgiven for suspecting they just " forget" to add the bute before the weekend and then will not repeat the prescription unless they SEE the patient and of course I will not wait over the weekend ....and then there are DOUBLE RATES,
Want to run screaming over the hills.
Also have had nutritionalist give me MSM, but that needs considerable loading in the system for quite some days before there is a noticeable effect as a painkiller and my pony is CRIPPLED?
CAN ANYONE GIVE ME ANY ADVICE??? PLEASE????
Milly's full story is on the ACTH thread.
HAS |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| numbbum |
Posted - 19 Sep 2011 : 6:16:39 PM
Love and blessings to you and Milly. Nothing worse than seeing an animal in pain. Hope things are improving for her now. |
| TanyanChewy |
Posted - 19 Sep 2011 : 2:22:10 PM
Just seen this thread. Am so glad that Milly has some pain relief now. I really feel for you both. Now that you have a stash I'd do all I can to ask the vet if you can pay for some more so you have a small amount for emergencies. Sending lots of healing vibes Milly's way and hugs for you x |
| pinkvboots |
Posted - 18 Sep 2011 : 10:57:25 PM
So glad you got some pain relief for your horse, what is wrong with your vets Laminitis is so painful I have had a horse with it so I know what your going through, I hope she is feeling much better now, I always try to hang onto any bute you never know when you might need it, or often someone at the yard has a bit spare. |
| Pasch |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 10:40:36 PM
Cmj,of course I wouldn't let even my own horse live a miserable life if there was no hope of improvement.I understood that Wyllow's pony had just started his treatment for Cushing and was suffering a bad bout of Laminitis but hopefully with a painkiller and the Cushing treatment starting to have its effect,that would be solved.I hope this is the case |
| cmj |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 7:31:54 PM
So pleased to hear you have got some pain relief.
Pasch, what you say is absolutely correct regarding bearing the pain when the prognosis is good for a pain-free life later, but the problem with Cushings and some horses is that they get other things as well as recurring laminitis, and the Cushings can never be cured, only managed. Mine, luckily, has only had one not too severe bout of laminitis. However he is more susceptible to midge bites in his ears and on his belly - I control with medication, his topline has dropped away despite all my efforts at feeding, worming, teeth, the Prascend etc etc. He gets bacterial infections like rainscald easily, he is fragile although still perky and happy AT THE MOMENT. There is no kindness in letting him suffer with laminitis IF he gets it. Remember he is already on Prascend though so different to Wyllow's pony. I bred mine and he has been with me for 17 years so PTS is not something I take lightly. As I said, I hope I am being too negative and others have positive experiences to offer Wyllow. |
| garnet |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 6:03:33 PM
Have said my piece on your other thread but so pleased to hear you have help now. |
| Pasch |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 3:21:17 PM
I also like Dot thought if the vet didn't give any pain killer at the moment it must have been for a valid reason.But I can perfectly understand how you must feel,nothing worse than seeing someone you love suffer,even your horse.
Hope you find a solution,be it through your vet or with aspirin.
Cmj,if the pain is at some point relieved,I think it's excessive of speaking of Pts.We all experienced bouts of big throbbing pain(migraine,toothache)it's bad,but once it's gone you forget about it.It's not like poor Milly has to suffer it for the rest of her life,which I agree would be cruel. |
| navaho621 |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 3:06:01 PM
Not had time to read all the replies as ive got to dash out in a mo, so sorry if im repeating this. I spoke to my vet about using anything Ibuprofen based & she said some horses can have a really nasty reaction to it, so not to use it.
Hope she is feeling better soon x |
| RiffRaff |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 1:04:31 PM
Devils claw is very good pain reliever if you use a liquid form it gets into the system much quicker. I use one from new Zealand and it's amazing also you can email the person who makes it and he can tell you how much to give (as a loading dose and getting it in the system quicker). He also does a product for cushings which really helped my boy. Hope you find something to help as it's such a horrible situation for you to be in and I really feel for you. |
| Kazzy |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 12:30:08 PM
So glad you got some pain relief for her you must have been at your wits end with worry.
I used Aspirin on my mare but I think (could be wrong though) that the vet said it only worked on Laminetics int he 1st few days of them coming down with it and she was on 28 aspirin every other day for about 7 days! I dont know the rules in Jersey for buying drugs over the counter but here we are only allowed to buy 2 packets a day, so I always stocked up when I went to the supermarket.
Good
luck with your mare I know excactly what you are going through.
Janet x
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| sab2 |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 12:29:44 PM
Fingers crossed Milly will soon be feeling a lot more comfortable  |
| Goldenmane |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 12:00:47 PM
Did not reply when I first read this as I had no more advice to offer, so pleased you have some medication. Love to Milly
I have a little stash of bute for my Cushings, arthritic mare I use before the farrier. |
| Wyllow |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 11:15:59 AM
Cmj, so sorry to hear....but I can relate to your decision never to allow your horse to suffer. I have a time limit in mind to see a turn around now Milly is on pergolide and nutritional solutions to help her mend, but I have seen three other minor bouts with her, this is a TERRIBLE one and there will NEVER be another, neither will this one be allowed to continue if there is no response to the meds.
BUT I HAVE A RESULT!!!!!
Possibly my requests for pain relief did not get through to the vets in question.....it is a big practice....so I am going to stop thinking badly of them.
The very efficient and very kind assistant today put the case to one of them and SOMETHING changed, possibly the fact I mentioned that anyone who saw the pony would report me for cruelty and failure to treat....and metacam is now going down her as fast as I can get it back up to her.
Please excuse abbreviated reply, using a mobile device on the go....but wanted to let you all know MILLY HAS HELP....and THANK YOU everyone for being so kind and replying. At least I feel I am not alone in this. It has been and is and will be difficult for some time. Thanks for just being there and being supportive.
~Cate and Milly xx |
| sharloam |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 11:14:11 AM
wyllow, I feel so sorry for you. I know how awful it is watching one in such pain. I have not used aspirin in horses but the dose is 2-3 mg/kg once daily if there is nothing else available. In an average size horse this relates to 1000mg a day. Please try and bully your vets in to letting you have some bute as this is supposedly the most effective against laminitic pain. Santros was climbing the walls and banging his head against them at one point and lathered in sweat and he has come right so there is hope. If you do use aspirin please look out for signs of gut irritation and ulcers as these can cause bad colic signs and treatment for these (gastroguard) is hideously expensive but very effective. Our thoughts are with you. Let us know how you get on. |
| Dot |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 11:12:11 AM
Take great care over using human meds in animals and compensating for mass, as someone else had said many human drugs given at human rates are toxic to domestic animals. They potentially have not given you any pain meds as it would be contraindicated when given with the other medicine your horse is on. Ie drug interactions would accelerate kidney /liver damage that is typical with long term use of BUTE. Vets have pharmacological knowledge you do not and are entrusted to do no harm as part of there training I doubt very much they are trying to keep your horse in pain. Try asking them why they did not supply any pain meds ie ask if it was because they were worried about contraindications. You will sound more understanding of the implications informed rather then just a horses owner anthropomorphising. I am not trying to be rude just or saying you are anthropomorphising just stating facts and best way to try and get an answer from someone with a different viewpoint /available information to yourself. |
| cmj |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 11:02:14 AM
Oh Wyllow I am so sorry for you. This is not what you want to hear but if my Cushing's horse gets the start of laminitis I shall be having him put to sleep, and believe me it will break my heart. I don't see how you can dose sufficiently to take away the awful pain of laminitis, it is such a huge throbbing pain, apparently. I sincerely hope someone on here has a more positive answer for you, and I am being too negative. I think anyone who has had a bad throbbing pain themselves and taken the maximum dose of ibuprofen and paracetamol together know exactly the moment the drugs stop working and the next dose is a couple of hours away. It is hard to bear.
Cushing's horses should avoid stress, this pain is causing huge stress. Your vets sound awful.
c |
| Wyllow |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 10:32:24 AM
Thank you all so much
Would not dream of just dosing without KNOWLEDGEABLE advice from those who have used a solution themselves and had a good result for their horse. yes, I have heard paracetamol is a bad idea too.
Soluble asprin seems best bet and the dose is readily listed all over the web, so I have seen in the last half an hour!
Have called vet AGAIN and spoken to their lovely kind assistant who does her very best in the face of some difficult circumstances sometimes. She is going to try to reach one of the equine vets out of the surgery this morning to get the bute or metacam reissued. Told her that frankly, if anyone saw Milly, asked me what she was on and was told " nothing", they would report me for cruelty. Even speaking to her is a comfort...as is speaking to all of you....and THANK YOU for being there and replying.
Barbara, will go to my messages. Thank you
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| Offira |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 10:10:50 AM
Gosh what a terrible situation. The only thing I can offer by way of advice is that we have used soluble disprin for dogs in the past (following vet's advice). The dose for a smallish dog (spaniel size) was 1 dispirin.
It is obviously different in Jersey as my vet will leave drugs in a box outside the surgery (or at his house) so I can pick up after hours. Would it be any good ringing the emergency vet, explaining the situation and asking to pick up enough bute to last until Monday? By 'ask' I mean go into a right paddy until he gives you the bute!
My only other suggestion would be to go to a local yard and ask if anyone will lend you a couple of sachets until Monday.
Poor horse. |
| Callisto |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 10:09:09 AM
Do not give paracetamol - I know it often proves fatal in smaller animals such as dogs and cats. Huge hugs for you and your poor girl.
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| Esther |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 10:05:25 AM
Can you get hold of some Devil's claw or bonswellia? Devil's claw works in a similar way to bute, although not as strong. We've had some good results with Dodson & Horrell 'Mobility' herbs which contain devil's claw and a few other useful anti-inflammatory herbs.
Harry has been on an on/off dose of bute for about 3 years now with no side effects. He has danilon though - it's sugar coated, more palatable, and I believe is less aggravating to the gut than standard bute. I think long term bute useage is dependant on how well the horse's liver is to start with - the old guy we've just lost had a knackered liver so bute would not have been suitable for him.
I find with my little cushingoid mare, she gets depressed fairly easily when her cushings is bad, and then appears to be worse than she is. So keeping their state of mind right is as important as dealing with the cushings.
Is there a more trustworthy mainland vet (either UK or France) you can ring for advice? |
| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 10:00:21 AM
Wyllow, I have pm'd you.
Barbara |
| Kes |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 09:52:39 AM
Having watched this happen to my old mare earlier this year I know exacty how you are feeling. She had awful Cushings induced laminitis and you do feel powerless to help sometimes. My mare was 14.3hh and was on 3 bute a day. That's 3 grams of Phenylbutazone, what and how much would be the equivalent of human drugs, is that what you are asking? Don't go to a chemist or pharmacist because if you say it's for animal use they will not serve you, we know this from things like Benadryl which vets *hint* to you to use.
I really wish I could be of more help to you, hopefully others will come up with ideas for you and your girl x |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 17 Sep 2011 : 09:49:54 AM
I cant think it would do any harm to use Human pain killers , not sure about the dosage though at least it would see you though the weekend , rather than leave him in pain, sorry I cant be more help. |
