| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fee |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 2:58:41 PM
Po was due her flu and tet way back in January. I couldn't risk her already compromised system by getting it done back then. In fact the vet said he wouldn't as she was so poorly. It's only now she is well enough for her body to support itself in the continuous repair that's going on AND be able to cope with antibodies injected into her. On the whole a good development and good news so why is my stomach churning as I sit here waiting on the vet. Hate them getting wormed or vaccinated 
Fee |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kes |
Posted - 13 Aug 2011 : 10:24:46 PM
Lyndilou, I wasn't suggesting you should insure your horses (did you say you didn't?), I was just pointing out a fact that vaccinations are considered so important by certain practices eg. insurance, that it is a requirement. I personally don't agree with it, I'm sure if a report was done on vet treatment flu and tet cases would be much lower in the list than the average cuts, colic, choke, sprains, strains....endless list goes on...
Complete Novice, yes that is correct I think. I'm not actually a genius on vaccines, I made the allergens themselves for human vaccines but I had either read or heard the same thing you mention above. And it's also a reason for contempt in livery yards with mixed approaches to vaccinations. The people who don't vaccinate don't do it for good reason, the people who do vaccinate say the people that don't rely on them to not spread the virus around. |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 13 Aug 2011 : 3:54:17 PM
Kes, as I have several horses I dont insure them , if they are ill I pay. |
| complete novice |
Posted - 13 Aug 2011 : 3:37:54 PM
Kes I'm curious, I have the sort of memory that remembers 'bits' but not all the info. I seem to remember that if vaccination levels drop below a certain % across the population there is a greater chance of an epidemic, as if those that are vaccinated slow the spread of a virus, do you know if this is an approximation of what happens and if it is would it be likely the same thing would happen with equine flu?
Sorry if I've put you on the spot and don't feel you have to answer but it's not something I don't know a great deal about. |
| Kes |
Posted - 13 Aug 2011 : 1:34:47 PM
Thanks Offira, that's good to know for future 'just in case', although why this is not more well known I don't understand. It seems to be that there are more bad reactions that thought as more people are mentioning all the time, if more people knew of this drug then maybe it could have saved some people and their horses a lot of pain and grief.
Lyndilou, I have heard that before about initial jabs being good enough to give lasting protection (although can't remember where from), but then if something happens to your horse your vet and insurance company are the first to ask if your vaccs are up to date.
Kes is insured with petplan Equine and I know my policy is invalid if he doesn't have his vaccs yearly. My dog is insured with Sainsbury's pet ins. and even that says she has to have up to date vaccs. It's as I said in my earlier post, we are in a vaccination culture.
It had also been said by someone else about the efficiency of the flu jab, as I am a microbiologist I get to read about latest vaccines etc (my last job was manufacturing allergy vaccines for people). It is very true that virus's change and mutate, sometimes at a tiny level but enough to make a vaccine less useful. A vaccine is only 100% effective based on the exact virus it is to attack. Taking my lab coat off now!! |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 13 Aug 2011 : 12:48:47 PM
why oh why dont they jab then in the chest? I insist on this now and never have problems , but when they were jabbed in the neck it caused stiffness and discomfort . also if my horses are not being shown or leaving the yard for anything I dont bother with boosters, once the initial jabs are done.
one girl who used to work for me was a vet nurse and she told me to do this, she also told me that vets are encouraged to sell flu and tets for commercial reasons . |
| Offira |
Posted - 13 Aug 2011 : 12:46:57 PM
Luckily the vet sent a copy invoice with my receipt this morning so here is the antidote!
Flunixin injection 50ml
The vets writing is a challenge but the flu jab looks like
Protq-FluTe. The jab that caused all the problems a couple of years ago was Prequissa TE (again writing is awful!). According to my vet it is the flu element that causes the problem, the tetanus is OK. My mare is sensitve even in her chest, but not this time. |
| Fee |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 9:03:22 PM
Po has a swelling on her neck and is obviously sore there, luckily it's not given her the ironing board neck it gave Polka two years ago!
I'm told the flu vaccine actually lasts for about 15 months but the rules for the year thing are just for ease of paperwork/passports when taking them to events.
It's my understanding that the flu vax is for the better of the horse population at large but the tetanus is for the individual horse.
Interesting post Pasch and I wouldn't be at all surprised if very true.
Just so relieved when I get them done and all is ok.
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| Offira |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 8:37:49 PM
Just checked the passport and can't read the vet's writing  . I will call the vet's office on Monday to see what it was so I can remember for next year. It was on the bill, but in a rare moment of efficiency I paid it and recycled it .
Will report back Monday. |
| Pasch |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 7:47:45 PM
A very knowledgeable vet friend of mine told me the flu vaccines on the market now are all but one useless because they only give protection to old strains of flu and not to the current ones.As for human flu,the strains change,so if we get a shot for the flu of,say,2006,we will still not be protected against this year's flu!He sent me a link to an article on this,will see if I can still find that.
Tetanus is anyway more important than flu,as the outcome of the disease is fatal.As for regulations on dates,I guess a rule is a rule,and the date does not mean all of a sudden vaccination is not effective anymore(lol at 366 days old antibodies,Dot  )but that from that date 100%protection is not guaranteed anymore.In Italy,until last year you needed shots every 6 months for your horse to compete,they changed that to once a year now.
I was lucky not to have any problem with Pasch until now.On the other hand,I had a reaction to my last tetanus booster,my arm was swollen and painful for days!
We have now also West Nile vaccination,not a problem in Uk I would think,but they found some cases here. |
| KittyB |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 2:01:24 PM
Tetanus only needs doing once every two years. Flu every year. My mare had a bad reaction to flu two years ago, couldn't bend her neck and was miserable. I now have both mind jabbed in the chest. Georgie, 4 year old, was done last week in the chest, and he was fine. |
| Dot |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 1:58:19 PM
Personally I always find the regulations surrounding vaccination a little silly ie one day late with your booster and you have to restart them from scratch. I know why these are the rules ie no efficacy trials on the length for which vaccines in animals are effective but it does seem daft. It is not as if all your horses tetanus antibodies suddenly go oh look I am 366 days old my shelf life is up. Would be a funny old world if they did and the immune system would be a costly waste of time for any animal to invest effort in.
I also question the legality of owners vaccinating there own horses, I thought vets could be struck off for signing passports re vaccinations if they had not actually done the job themselves. Supply does not equal administration. How many people finish their full course of antibiotics in human medicine? I remember H&H running a news article on a vet putting the wrong date on one of Nick Skelton's horses so it was contiguous and the vet being finned. Personally if I was a qualified vet I would not want to run the risk of either loosing my licence to practice or being finned so would only sign if I had administered the vaccine.
I thought all affiliated events required all competitors horses to be vaccinated, I know a lot of local shows/ centres say in the schedules that all horses must have valid up to date vaccinations for Flu & Tet, but how often is this actually checked before horses are unloaded? I understand peoples reasons for not Flu vaccinating, if I ran a closed isolated herd of broodmares/ youngsters then this is something I would seriously consider. However as I don't and some of my horses go out round the country competing I think not vaccinating horses who to date have never reacted or just been a little off colour/stiff is both irresponsible to my own horses and other peoples. Other peoples horses to them are just as important as mine are to me.
Scientifically speaking the benefits of vaccination far out weigh the down sides. |
| HelenW |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 11:49:52 AM
Hi kes ... I'm very lucky as my horses are at home with me so don't have to worry too much. I do however think twice where I take her. My vet has never spoken about alternatives or an antidote so I would be very interested in any if available. |
| Kes |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 11:40:49 AM
HelenW, that sounds very unlucky for your mare.
For the people who don't have the equine flu jab for various reasons does it stop you doing anything/going anywhere? I completely understand what you are saying about these bad reactions, the symptoms sound quite bad and I wouldn't want them for my horse either so guess I am lucky. But it would play on my mind that he wasn't vaccinated, also made worse that I am in a livery yard so horses do come and go giving greater risk to exposure.
Offira, what is this antidote if you wouldn't mind looking? Although I haven't been in this situation you never know and if something like this exists I would like to know for future 'just in case'. Thanks. |
| Offira |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 11:29:00 AM
I had my mare done the other day, she is always so ill afterwards so asked the vet for an antidote to be given (after suggestion from Rosie on here) and she had no reaction at all. It was also a different vaccine. If you are interested I will look in her passport when I get home and tell you what she had.
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| HelenW |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 11:17:35 AM
I only have tet done now on my mare. Four years in a row after trying the injection in several different areas she had a terrible reaction, she would be off her food for days and be incredibly sore and stiff where the injection had been given.when she had it In Her chest the area had to be drained several days later. Her hind quarter when given there a year later was so swollen that the swelling went down her leg which made her lame for 3 days. |
| complete novice |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 08:52:45 AM
Again on the human side of things my baby daughter was due her whooping cough vacine in '76. There was a lot of adverse publicity at the time and I really wasn't sure, eventually I went ahead though she was never ill as a baby she contracted whooping cough at 19months, when we went back to see the Dr his comment stuck with me, he gave her the all clear but pointed out casually that if she hadn't been vaccinated I could have been burying her that week, he had a lovely bedside manner lol. Like Kes despite the worries I would go for the vaccine every time. |
| Kes |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 08:25:03 AM
I'm no genius when it comes to vaccinations but on the human side of things you are vaccinated as a child then you a supposed to have boosters every ten years. Most people don't however but if something happened, eg you cut your hand badly on rusty old barbed wire and had stitches in hospital, you would be offered a tetanus jab.
We are unfortunately of a vaccine culture, I didn't know this for myself but read on here last week that there was a vacc for Strangles now. I have to say, although it scares me with reading these bad stories I would still have Kes done. The thought of him catching one of these awful virus's is enough, also, doesn't it invalidate your insurance if you don't vaccinate? |
| carole ferguson |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 08:20:45 AM
My son does all mine for Tetanus - but I don't have the Flu done any more - after having a virus through all my yard a few years ago - and the only 2 who were really poorly were the two who had been done for Flu.The 2 old girls had a slight runny nose for a couple of days - Asti with foal at foot had no sign of any infection at all - but Nicky Noodle and Littledart Japonica were really ill fo well over a week - and they were the 2 who were up to date with Flu jabs as they were both being shown at the time. |
| annas |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 12:00:18 AM
My mare nearly died after her FLU/TET about 8 years ago (I think it was Equip/FT) she can have Duvaxyn now, manufacturers covered vets fees (2 vets 1 day). I don't have her vaccinated anymore. My gelding is due next week and I always dread it...it is a lottery. She also has a permanently veined face on one side, which swell further when her head goes down (apparently another side effect) and another vet said never to have her vaccinated on the same side as her circulation has been compromised.....
I'm sure that I read somewhere with humans that if you have a certain amount of tetanus jabs you are covered for life, so surely it should be the same for horses?! Yearly seems excessive surely? Its big bucks.....I hate, hate, hate the vaccine industry. |
| nikki83 |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 8:05:04 PM
Dine had his Flu and Tet on Tuesday morning. He was a bit miserable on tues afternoon but totally fine by weds morning, so swelling or other reactions. Just checked his passport, he has been vaccinated with Equip FT if that helps.
Nikki x |
| Fee |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 6:48:02 PM
Not this year but last Polka also took a bad reaction to the flu jab. She couldn't bend her neck to graze for two days and it was so distressing for her. The vet told me they'd had quite a few bad reactions to that batch so had changed the jab for this year and all was fine with both Inka and Polka.
That's Po done, hopefully no reaction. Worm counts came back clear, yay, so no worming until Autumn.
Fee |
| Judith S |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 6:37:49 PM
There was one make of vaccine that seemed to get more reactions than others a while back, but I think most vets stopped using it.
There is a thread in another forum where a horse had a reaction to vacc in chest and was lame for weeks after the swelling went down into the leg, apparently the manufacturer of the vaccine covered all the vet fees to cover subsequent treatment. |
| Kes |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 5:25:40 PM
I have always been ok with any vaccs for horses I have personally owned but there are others in our yard not so lucky. If this is any help this is what they do now; buy a bottle of tet vacc from the vet with enough syringes and needles and you can do your own. Last year I couldn't catch my horse so the vet gave me the combined vacc to do myself the next day. I did catch the baggage the following day and can say I was surprised at how easy horses are to inject, you only need a little pressure for that tiny bore needle and job done. |
| Misshana |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 5:11:57 PM
Please do not have it done in the rump. My sister's horse has a terrible abcess right into the rump muscle from the flu jab. Vets have cut a large slice into rump for treatment and draining. Vets bill so far including hospitalisation over £3000!!!
I found my Arabs neck swelled so always ask for it in rump before.
Apparently recommended now they are injected into chest area then if infection/abcess occurs it is easier to treat and drain.
My horse due for vacc next Monday and I'm worried about having it done now. |
| Kharidian |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 4:34:56 PM
Fee,
Do you show your girls i.e. some shows insist on up to date vaccinations, or take them anywhere whre they're likely to come into contact with other horses? If not, why not consider just vaccinating for tetanus?
Caryn |
